PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

msdark · 2008-09-27 15:42:15

(sorry for my english)
I was use Thunar but i think PCManfm is better, but pcmanfm doesn't have trash manager no???
how can i solve that?

Odd-rationale · 2008-09-27 15:59:54

PCManFM does not have a trash. At least not yet... I'm not sure whether the developer is planning this feature or not.

skottish · 2008-09-27 16:08:58

If I remember correctly the developer didn't want one, but due to the hordes of people who use it as just another storage folder, it may be added.

moljac024 · 2008-09-27 16:35:13

skottish wrote:

If I remember correctly the developer didn't want one, but due to the hordes of people who use it as just another storage folder, it may be added.

Never got the point of trash really...

Last edited by moljac024 (2008-09-27 16:48:11)

pogeymanz · 2008-09-27 16:43:11

Me niether...

When I want something gone, I delete.

Xyne · 2008-09-27 17:09:39

Having a trash directory can be useful. It's a good place to drop things that you don't think you'll need anymore so that you can see if you're right. If you have no issues without whatever for a while, wipe it from the trash. Also, especially for people using GUI apps for file management (and no @#$#%$ "just use the command line" comments, please... I, for the record, DO use the command line for most things, but I'm not blind to the merits of a GUI sometimes), having a step between permanent deletion is nice as it avoids many accidental deletions.

I wonder if the dev of pcmanfm would consider adding in some plugin function so that you could highlight files and pass them as arguments to an external script.

moljac024 · 2008-09-27 17:29:07

But then it's not deleting but simply moving to another folder.
So you think you deleted something but you see no hard drive space was freed.
Then you have to "delete" it again, this time for real. How many accidents does it really stop ?
Who doesn't empty the trash immediately after deleting something ?
And for those who don't, who browses the trash folder to double check everything is safe to delete when there's probably a heap of useless stuff there ?
Just another case of emulating real life paradigms on the computer, which doesn't make much sense.

So, we have this kind of mis-direction in the way Desktop Environments and GUIs are made and what does Microsoft do ? Revolutionalizes the way computers work by inventing the table PC. Wow, you can drag photos just like they're real photos on a real table. Oh gosh, we couldn't do that before

Last edited by moljac024 (2008-09-27 17:30:51)

Xyne · 2008-09-27 17:46:03

Being able to just hit "delete" when highlighting a file using a GUI file manager is more convenient than having to move it to some designated folder, even if the end result is the same (again, even when I was on windows, I would almost always use shift+delete to get rid of things, so I'm mostly playing devil's advocate, even though the trash has saved me a few times).

Sometimes the point of "deleting" something isn't just to free hard disk space (Linux seems to attract packrats who gladly keep everything they can until they run out of space), but to organize what you have. If you come across something that you don't think you need, just deleting it can lead to problems. Dumping it somewhere where you can forget about it for now and see if you need it later is a better solution (yeah, you CAN do it manually, and maybe this is just making an easy thing easier, but many people consider it a good feature to have "delete/remove" move to trash).

Also, generally no, you don't browse the trash before emptying it. When you realize that you're missing something and you think it's in there though, you will check it. That's directly analogous to real wastebins.

I think my real problem is the lack of consideration for other ways of thinking about things. Most PC users have Windows because, aside from M$'s adept yet malicious business practices, it generally appeals to many people (and you can argue that they're less adept, but that doesn't really matter). GUIs are user-friendly, trash can be nice, etc. If you don't see the point of something that many people want, I suggest that it's up to you to try to understand it rather than simply write it off. If it were completely useless, there wouldn't be so much interest in having it.

EDIT
Actually, the best solution, imo, would be to have a trash icon that moves files to a trash directory. That way remove/delete would still work as usual.

Last edited by Xyne (2008-09-27 17:49:27)

skottish · 2008-09-27 17:46:19

This is my favorite quote on trash cans. From one of (the?) Thunar's devs:

Can I disable the trash? No, you can not. Though there are many users who would like to see this feature implemented, here's the reason it is not going to happen: 'There are users that seem to use their trash as their default storage system, as a consequence it can happen that they crawl behind your computer. They see no harm in removing files they created since they are in trash. But when they accidentally select one or two files belonging to you, you wish there was.' With the introduction of trash-can support in any file-manager there came careless users. Thunar has trash-support too to protect you from them.

Once I stopped laughing at this I nearly felt insulted!

Xyne · 2008-09-27 17:52:30

Although if you let such a person use your computer unsupervised, one could argue that perhaps you deserve to have your files deleted.

To avoid being pidgeon-holed as someone who wants trash in pcmanfm (I don't really care), I want to point out that I think it's ridiculous that you can't disable it in Thunar. Dumbing down a system for a select few is a bad idea imo.

Last edited by Xyne (2008-09-27 17:52:44)

AD28 · 2008-09-27 22:50:16

moljac024 wrote:

Never got the point of trash really...

For everyone who asks "why do you need to save your deleted files?" the reverse question is just as valid: why is it so important for you to delete your files instantly?

Personally I don't see the point of a gui file manager if it doesn't provide robust functionality. If I'm going to leave the shell and open up a gui file manager, I expect features like copy/cut/paste/file details/thumbnails/location bar/shortcuts/trash/etc. If it can't do these things, what's the point of using one? That's why I can't understand the point of "minimalist" file managers like pcman and especially rox.

For everyone who complains that they "have to" purge their trash bin after each delete.. why would you do it that way? You're just making it hard on yourself and then complaining that it's inconvenient.. just clean out the trash folder every couple weeks, not after every delete. Is that really too much of a "hassle" to avoid some major headaches later on?

skottish · 2008-09-27 23:58:39

AD28 wrote:

For everyone who asks "why do you need to save your deleted files?" the reverse question is just as valid: why is it so important for you to delete your files instantly?

For me, I don't want to "delete" something twice. I'm organized enough not to delete something that I want. It's been years since I've used a trash can and have never missed it. It makes two steps out of something that I could have been accomplished by one.

With that being said, I think that the best solution would be to have one of these options on the right click menu with both in the menu bar: delete, send to trash, or both (KDE style). That way the user can make the choice.

As to your other question about why a file manger when the command line accomplishes the same thing. Sometimes the command line is faster and sometimes not. I choose which tool to use based on what my current need is. If you're working with multiple files and what you're trying to do matches a pattern, the command line will usually be faster. If you're working with a bunch of files and they don't match a pattern, the a file manager will be usually be faster.

Last edited by skottish (2008-09-28 00:01:45)

AD28 · 2008-09-28 00:16:30

Meh it's just a matter of perception. You don't really delete things twice unless you go out of your way to immediately empty the trash after every single delete, and again I don't see the point of doing it that way because it would be very inconvenient. Say you empty 15 files from the trash.. that's makes 16 total operations. It's not like you're doubling your deletes to 30.

Personally that 1 extra operation is worth it to prevent potentially major headaches, regardless of whether I end up making 0 or 10 mistakes.

bgc1954 · 2008-09-28 16:37:22

Actually, the nice thing about linux is you are the one who decides if you need trash or not. If you don't install pcmanfm, or if you do install thunar, nautilus...etc.

That being said, I must admit that alot of friend's and family's computers that I work on--usually in some form of winblows--complain about their system lagging and when you check into it, their recycle bin--trash-- is full of crap and when you ask them why they don't emty their trash they say, " Oh...I didnt know I have to do that!" It's amaziing how many people think their computer will do everything for them.

bluewind · 2008-09-28 17:27:33

I once used pcmanfm and somewhy it lagged every few minutes. Normally when I selected something it didn't show what I selected for around 2 secs.
Then I had some empty files in ~ and one folder with all my stuff (~/stuff). There were only 3 things I didn't want to delete and one of them was my (damn huge) stuff folder. As of the delay I was used to just select the files and then del+enter. Well I didn't see that my stuff folder was selected...

Last edited by bluewind (2008-09-28 17:29:43)

z0phi3l · 2008-09-28 19:34:52

bgc1954 wrote:

Actually, the nice thing about linux is you are the one who decides if you need trash or not. If you don't install pcmanfm, or if you do install thunar, nautilus...etc.
That being said, I must admit that alot of friend's and family's computers that I work on--usually in some form of winblows--complain about their system lagging and when you check into it, their recycle bin--trash-- is full of crap and when you ask them why they don't emty their trash they say, " Oh...I didnt know I have to do that!" It's amaziing how many people think their computer will do everything for them.

THIS

I hate Trash/Recycle Bin/Trash Bin, but unfortunately because of MS the average PC user is fairly clueless, and really either store things in RB or never empty it out.

Me when I delete something I KNOW I don't want/need it anymore so it's a pain to have to empty it once I'm done, plus I'm old school and rember the days when storage wasn't as plentiful as it is know and deleting was a necessary thing to do

Acecero · 2008-09-28 20:02:41

bgc1954 wrote:

Actually, the nice thing about linux is you are the one who decides if you need trash or not. If you don't install pcmanfm, or if you do install thunar, nautilus...etc.

I agree with you there, the user has the choice between using (or having) a trash bin or not.

fulloffur · 2008-09-29 07:52:05

You can look into "libtrash", though I never used it myself.

I was also looking for a lightweight filemanager with trash function, and ended up using rox with the trash roxapp. That's where I learned about libtrash.

Although you have to be careful about deleting files in external drives. The trash roxapp would move the deleted files into the local harddisk. I'm not sure if libtrash have the same behaviour...

Arch Linux

#1 2008-09-27 15:42:15

PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#2 2008-09-27 15:59:54

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#3 2008-09-27 16:08:58

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#4 2008-09-27 16:35:13

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#5 2008-09-27 16:43:11

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#6 2008-09-27 17:09:39

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#7 2008-09-27 17:29:07

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#8 2008-09-27 17:46:03

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#9 2008-09-27 17:46:19

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#10 2008-09-27 17:52:30

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#11 2008-09-27 22:50:16

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#12 2008-09-27 23:58:39

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#13 2008-09-28 00:16:30

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#14 2008-09-28 16:37:22

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#15 2008-09-28 17:27:33

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#16 2008-09-28 19:34:52

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#17 2008-09-28 20:02:41

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

#18 2008-09-29 07:52:05

Re: PCmanFM doesn't have Trash???

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