Wanted:"Terminal"

ioky · 2008-10-22 19:41:27

After the a few month of researching on CLI. I think I can just doing pretty much anything on CLI. Maybe not much graphic/video stuff can be done, but it is okay because I want to keep the text base look. So now, I am sure how to setup my CLI Linux Box named "CLINU". My problem is, I don't want to set it up on my powerful Desktop. Well, relatively too powerful for a pure CLI environment. Ideal, I would like to set it up in a small machine (small box). Just like one of those old age Terminal (green text with black background.) It would be cool if it come with its own screen. (like anything from 7" to 15"). I do not want it to be a laptop, because there is too much non-use stuff build in to the laptop, and all the crazy thing like battery, and stuff(Destroy the pure theme of the idea)

Any suggestion of what kind of hardware I should get? When it is done, all I want is a little box(ideally come with a display) and a Keyboard that go long with it.

After using Desktop with sweetest GUI, I just feel like to make something really minimal. BTW I am a hobbyist computer builder. And I like to build computer that have their very own character. My budget is ~200$

Thanks

dav7 · 2008-10-22 19:56:44

I know exactly what you mean.

The two things that come to mind are the N810, an internet tablet with wifi, bluetooth that runs ARM linux as its official OS. You can rip out OS2008 (what it comes with) and put your own setup on it (you can compile your own kernel, the drivers aren't compiled in although they are closed source) that uses only the framebuffer and doesn't touch X11; that would give you your terminal and also let you use the internet from wherever as well, and not using X would possibly give you more battery life as an added plus. The N810's CPU, a TI OMAP 2420, is clocked at 400MHz, and it comes with 128MB of "RAM" RAM and 256MB of "storage" RAM (flash RAM), although you can expand the latter to 8GB with [micro-]SD cards.

My second suggestion is a VIA Nano-ITX board. This is a full x86-compatible computer - you get a 1GHz CPU soldered to the board and you can put up to 1GB of RAM in. Unlike an equivalent AMD or Intel chip at the same speed, VIA CPUs tend to be "slow" and easily bogged down, but for what you want this might be good, or even perfect. Unlike the N810 which is essentially just a PDA whose official OS is Linux, this is a "real" mobo and as such doesn't come with a screen. However, the board can fit in the palm of your hand and the case that it goes into (yes, it has a case design standard and there are cases for it!) can fit a 2.5" HDD and still fit into a "normal" computer's 5.25" drive bay!

Both of these things exceed $200 by a bit, the N810 was a fair bit more last time I checked but is probably a lot closer to $200 now (the newer WiMax version is probably really expensive right now), and the nano-itx boards are about $245. For the latter, google "via artigo" - this is a kit that gives you the board, a case, and so on, but no hard disk: any 2.5" HDD will work, and since you won't need a lot of space, ebay is probably a perfect start for a lower-capacity, cheap HDD.

As always, there's a "if you wait" with this: if you want to wait, VIA will probably release a newer version of their board, one that runs at 500MHz but has no fan (!), and stop sending it only to developers who can prove that they have something valid to do with it (and SSDs will be a bit less expensive soon and you would be able to make a completely solid-state system), and also, if you wait with the N810, the newer version of the N810 which has WiMax which might or might not be cool for where you might live will come down in price as time goes forward.

PS. People are probably going to think you want a terminal emulator with your current title, at least I did; try to reference hardware somehow so people know what they're about to read about.

-dav7

Last edited by dav7 (2008-10-22 20:02:57)

ioky · 2008-10-22 20:41:38

I just go through Newegg, and I found something call the Wind PC by MSI. It is pretty much like like ITX barebone. And it is pretty small, though I wish it can be even smaller. I can get a fully function system with 250$ without shipping. That is: Intel Atom 1.6GHz @ 533, 2GB 200pin RAM @ 533, 80GB @ 7200RPM, and a pretty good DVD burner. I think I am pretty much cut it down to 200$ if I really want to. It did give you a pretty good media, So I think it is relatively worth it. But that is the system alone, if I want a keyboard and a display, it can easily add up to 500$. Which I don't really need.

Of course, it is just for fun, so It is not a "need" to get one. But if Luckily enough, I found some interesting hardware. I will definitely build my own "Terminal". Ideally I would like something that can really sit on my Desktop and look Geeky. haha

BTW Thanks for the suggestion "dav7"

phrakture · 2008-10-22 20:51:09

Order one of these off ebay! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT420

pseudonomous · 2008-10-23 00:04:03

You also might look into something like one of the old imac powerpcs or a used "thin - client", something to consider is power consumption, w/ a thin client you'd actually have to use your desktop as a server, w/ a powerpc or an old pentium celeron you could run a stand-alone system, with significantly less power consumption then most modern hardware and still have a blazingly fast system, in fact, you could actually run Xwindows if you wanted too (although you don't). I've got a pII celeron that I use to read e-mail in alpine, browse the web in links, and use as a samba/nfs/print-server. Eventually I plan to try and set up a web server and maybe a mail server just for fun.

Benifits of choosing a PII or ppc vs others?

It will run arch:

http://www.archlinuxppc.org/

You can probably get one for $100 or less.

For a PII celeron ...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-7-CPU-Intel-Pen … dZViewItem

If you could manage to find all the parts you could probably build yourself 7 PIIs for under $100. Maybe one of them would even work.

Odd-rationale · 2008-10-23 00:46:19

maybe a beagleboard? http://beagleboard.org/

evol · 2008-10-23 04:16:25

The OP and the mention of the beagleboard have brought up something that's been going through my mind on and off for quite some time.

The idea of a really back to basics, linux based ultra portable - with an emphasis on battery life and durability.

Basically the image in my head is of something really tough, that could even use AA cells if needed - and instead of a 24bit all singing 12+ inch TFT battery killing display, it would use, for example a 40x8 LCD display, or if I ever enter the 21st century, electronic paper.

The inspiration being something like the rather ahead of its time Atari Portfolio.

I guess it would be a lot like the OpenPandora too, but more austere.. no paddles and no nice looking display, text text text

Alas I imagine a market size of about 1 or 2 people

ioky · 2008-10-23 06:57:36

haha if the market size is only 1 or 2 people, I will definitely one of them.

I also found something that you might be interested.

http://www.compulab.co.il/x270em/html/x … asheet.htm

http://www.compulab.co.il/iglx/html/igl … asheet.htm

jerryluc · 2008-10-23 07:01:16

Oo, and you should get a old-school BULL keyboard, the sound of it just scream black terminal with green text!

Well. I couldn't find anything on bull keyboards on the Internet, but I'm pretty sure I had a bull keyboard with great sound. I friend of mine even bought one on ebay because of the sound.

anyways: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/

dav7 · 2008-10-23 13:43:29

evol wrote:

The OP and the mention of the beagleboard have brought up something that's been going through my mind on and off for quite some time.
The idea of a really back to basics, linux based ultra portable - with an emphasis on battery life and durability.
Basically the image in my head is of something really tough, that could even use AA cells if needed - and instead of a 24bit all singing 12+ inch TFT battery killing display, it would use, for example a 40x8 LCD display, or if I ever enter the 21st century, electronic paper.
The inspiration being something like the rather ahead of its time Atari Portfolio.
I guess it would be a lot like the OpenPandora too, but more austere.. no paddles and no nice looking display, text text text
Alas I imagine a market size of about 1 or 2 people

4*, ioky and me!

I too have had a similar idea in my head for a while. My idea calls for a really tiny device that's about 5cm x 3cm with a touchscreen, a 50MHz or so CPU (devices reminiscent of old, slow hardware FTW ), 16MB or 32MB of RAM (maybe more?), and 2GB or so of flash storage.

Of course, since that size is literally crazy (touchscreens aren't typically made that small , plus we have to think about CPU power vs. battery size and capacity etc) I'm fine with scaling up a bit - maybe to 7cm x 5cm. Then I could easily fit a microSD slot in

I'd also want to add audio out (and possibly in), wireless networking and so on.

The smaller version might also work, if I did some serious scaling down - no audio in, just out (if at all possible), no external storage, a slower, smaller CPU, less RAM, etc. The radio would definitely need to stay however.

My S10 MP3 player was the inspiration for the 5cm x 3cm dimensions: it's about that size yet packs what I've found to be a 200MHz ARM processor inside (with some CalmRISC bits in there as well), a Samsung SA58700.

That SoC (system-on-chip) packs an audio decoder, USB 1.1 host and USB 2.0 device stack, ATAPI host controller, SD and memory stick interface (host controller v1.3), SDIO, an STN and color (16bpp / 24bpp) TFT LCD stack with support for resolutions up to 2048 x 2048, OSD, alpha blending, SPDIF in/out, a unique chip ID, RTC, GPIO, and power management.

All in a package sized about 2cm by 1cm (there don't appear to be any measurements and I'm guessing from pictures of the insides of the S10).

Yes, you may drop your jaw now. It makes sense that the S10 is so expensive (it's $200)!

In terms of practicality and applications, I posted over at the Embedded Forums a little while ago about the subject (amazing timing, all this ) and... nobody replied . One of a few things are happening; they think they're beyond me or something (in which case I really what a device to be created that you can whack people upside the head over the internet with), they've no idea what to say, or everyone is suddenly squabbling to create one first

I personally hope for the latter.

-dav7

Last edited by dav7 (2008-10-23 13:44:44)

ioky · 2008-10-23 14:15:28

You should take a look on the Nokia 770, It is about 100$ like a year ago, I am not sure how much it would be now, or I should say, do they even make it any more. And it is run on Linux too.

ioky · 2008-10-23 14:30:09

Building Characteristic computer is really a form of Art. Although it takes years of study in order to make anything happen, and have some fun. These is also the reason why the market sharing is extremely low. haha, but as I say, it is Art. At this stage, most of what we can do is just playing around with the devise already exist, and those devise aren't done by a pair of hands. Plus the money is needed is beyond affordable. haha.

evol · 2008-10-23 14:36:53

The Nokia 770/800/810 are really beautiful devices ( love the slide out keyboard on the n810), but I guess the key differences to what I'm talking about is the much simpler text only interface, simpler battery requirements, simpler hardware and perhaps a toughened up exterior with maybe a dash of weather proofing!

dav7 - damn your size requirements are tight

But it could work, of that I've no doubt. My admittedly much larger H10 has also been an inspiration of sorts, especially since Rockbox has turned it into an amazing device. If it had a keyboard and wireless it would be almost perfect.

Wireless in this day and age is a must, the biggest hurdle with existing software is the lack of an ncurses based analogue to networkmanager, but other than that, everything is there.

Audio in/out would be great too, I'm a bit of a radio dork and I'm considering going for an Amateur license in the near future, so the idea of a tiny, low power drain linux based device that could be used to decode/code PSK31 transmissions would be amazing.

You're into territory where, married with an external solar panel, you could be free of the electronic mains, at least during summer

evol · 2008-10-23 14:38:56

ioky wrote:

Building Characteristic computer is really a form of Art. Although it takes years of study in order to make anything happen, and have some fun. These is also the reason why the market sharing is extremely low. haha, but as I say, it is Art. At this stage, most of what we can do is just playing around with the devise already exist, and those devise aren't done by a pair of hands. Plus the money is needed is beyond affordable. haha.

Absolutely, this is really just a pipe dream as it stands.

The best I could hope to do is make an ungainly prototype

evol · 2008-10-23 15:17:21

Seems as though we're not alone:

http://www.larwe.com/technical/portaterm.html

And an n770 laptop

http://tabletblog.com/2006/09/nokia-770 … on-v2.html

(also apologies for 3 posts in a row... too much coffee + geek high over this idea)

Last edited by evol (2008-10-23 15:18:21)

dav7 · 2008-10-23 16:00:04

ioky wrote:

You should take a look on the Nokia 770, It is about 100$ like a year ago, I am not sure how much it would be now, or I should say, do they even make it any more. And it is run on Linux too.

The 770 inspired the N800, which in turn inspired the N810, FYI. But yes, the 770, although bigger, would be very cheap to buy now.

ioky wrote:

Building Characteristic computer is really a form of Art. Although it takes years of study in order to make anything happen, and have some fun. These is also the reason why the market sharing is extremely low. haha, but as I say, it is Art. At this stage, most of what we can do is just playing around with the devise already exist, and those devise aren't done by a pair of hands. Plus the money is needed is beyond affordable. haha.

Indeed. My Mum nailed it recently: old computers have character. Newer systems don't. The DEC VT05 had character overflowing (pun not intended if you notice it ). The C64 had a fair bit of character (but not as much as the VT05, IMHO). This world seems to be in a state of decline and it's losing a lot of things, character included, so including character in things is hard but really worthwhile. And yes, it is a form of art - the purest form, without point, purpose or reason.

evol wrote:

The Nokia 770/800/810 are really beautiful devices ( love the slide out keyboard on the n810), but I guess the key differences to what I'm talking about is the much simpler text only interface, simpler battery requirements, simpler hardware and perhaps a toughened up exterior with maybe a dash of weather proofing!

I like it. I like it a lot. Now that you mention these new attributes I see an entirely different picture and like this new image a LOT! Although you're going to need to accept that you'll need more than 2 AA batteries to make something like this work, but nonetheless high-capacity (and high-expense ) batteries do exist.

dav7 - **** your size requirements are tight

lol

But it could work, of that I've no doubt. My admittedly much larger H10 has also been an inspiration of sorts, especially since Rockbox has turned it into an amazing device. If it had a keyboard and wireless it would be almost perfect.
Wireless in this day and age is a must, the biggest hurdle with existing software is the lack of an ncurses based analogue to networkmanager, but other than that, everything is there.

Stuff ncurses. AI-based autoconfiguration script FTW

Audio in/out would be great too, I'm a bit of a radio dork and I'm considering going for an Amateur license in the near future, so the idea of a tiny, low power drain linux based device that could be used to decode/code PSK31 transmissions would be amazing.

...

You're into territory where, married with an external solar panel, you could be free of the electronic mains, at least during summer

Yea

evol wrote:

ioky wrote:
Building Characteristic computer is really a form of Art. Although it takes years of study in order to make anything happen, and have some fun. These is also the reason why the market sharing is extremely low. haha, but as I say, it is Art. At this stage, most of what we can do is just playing around with the devise already exist, and those devise aren't done by a pair of hands. Plus the money is needed is beyond affordable. haha.
Absolutely, this is really just a pipe dream as it stands.
The best I could hope to do is make an ungainly prototype

Heh, ungainly prototypes are FTW.

evol wrote:

Seems as though we're not alone:
http://www.larwe.com/technical/portaterm.html
And an n770 laptop
http://tabletblog.com/2006/09/nokia-770 … on-v2.html
(also apologies for 3 posts in a row... too much coffee + geek high over this idea)

The portaterm idea is interesting but uses tech that's a few million years old (:P) and the 770 idea is just a bit... weird.

-dav7

evol · 2008-10-23 16:08:34

Oi, leave the eye rolling out

The reason I linked the portaterm page is that, even today people have a practical use for basic portable terminals - the problem is as you say, they're forced to use ancient tech as there is no modern equivalent. So perhaps there is a viable market out there for such a device based on modern software/hardware. Not a big market by any means, but for people who work in the field, they could have a real use.

You're most probably right about the limitations of AA cell batteries for such a device, but hey I can dream

dav7 · 2008-10-23 16:23:00

Right. Sorry.

This has been one of my medium to long term goals for a while: like I said in the linked embedded forums post (read it if you haven't already! ), my idea is based off of the fact that there's no actual official firmware or OS for my device, and the challenge is to make your own. Of course, open source "basic" demos would be available of how to interface with the touchscreen and draw on the LCD, and there might even be a simple OS kernel you could use, but apart from that, it'd be up to you. Kinda like taking the concept of lego/construction set kits to software.

Conversely, your idea is based off of the presence of an existing OS/kernel (Linux) and therefore viable market out there.

I think that if these two concepts were to merge, ie both devices be created and both worked with custom firmware AND the Linux kernel, people would be spoiled for choice.

-dav7

ioky · 2008-10-23 18:43:08

here is a question of mine, I know Just running a CLI in a computer takes very little computing power, but how little would it actually be? I mean, every time, I try to get some hardware for my project, I always feel it is over powerful, and yet, always feel like want more, haha. (human nature)

I mean, I don't feel like to use a very powerful hardware to do little things, at the same time, I would like to have a powerful terminal. It would be crazy if you have a Terminal that 3.0GHz 4core CPU with 8GB or DDR3, along with a high ended Graphic. That is just a waste.

I try to get a Intel Atom machine, and I already think it is over powered. Storage is only thing that I don't mind it is too much. Sense even I just want with a terminal, I still want to play songs and store stuff in it.

I am working on some 3D model base on my idea, and I will post them up once I finish. Just for fun.

dav7 · 2008-10-24 07:49:57

Cooooooool!

And to be honest, if you created something like evol's concept, you would only need a 10MHz main processor if you were going to make the device connect somehow to another system, and maybe 60 or 100MHz if you want a more standalone system that can play back music (MP3 decoding can take a fair bit of power).

You could get a cpufreq-compatible CPU and slow it down to its lowest MHz: this would give you the added benefit of less thermal issues.

-dav7

ioky · 2008-10-24 19:34:24

Here is some ideal component I want to here in the machine.

The whole Set come a monitor, a core, and a keyboard. See below for detail on each.

Monitor: The monitor have a slot for holding the core(the actual computer) in place. It can also give the core power, along with USB Hub for the system. The monitor, however, can use as a stand alone monitor for any computer. This design limited the number of cables, and give the core the possibility to expend if needed. At the Same time, you can have a portable computer to place to place. When the core connected with monitor, the DVI or VGA adapter, DC adapter, and a USB will be directly connected.(or maybe with very short cable).

Core: I don't know how much computing power I need but for the I/O, I would like to have an Ethernet adapter, 2 USB 2.0 adapter, a DVI/VGA (either one) adapter, Sound I/O put. If possible, I would like it come with a HDD, Wifi, and a card reader. The dimension should within 4"X4"X2"

Keyboard: I would like the keyboard be a high quality full size slim keyboard, with remove-able key with Orange LED Of course the design should match the monitor and the core.

The Over all Design is Color in Black with Orange LED(or white LED). (Don't ask me why, I just like it) It should have a minimum boxy form.

Of course, it is power by Linux or BSD. NO X.org will be USE, pure command line for "now".

ioky · 2008-10-24 20:03:06

Here is an idea always bothers me a little when I think about This Terminal concept.
And I want to ask you that, should it be just pure CLI, or use something like Awsome with many Shell open, but only give CLI softwares?

I mean, I personally want just CLI, but it seem more usable with Awsome. I don't know what do you think?

evol · 2008-10-27 03:28:47

Hmm, something that isn't a million miles from my concept:

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7136726850.html

# Processor -- Marvell PXA270 312MHz
# Memory 128MB RAM; 64MB SDRAM; includes 12MB for user data and 23MB for user media files
# Flash expansion-- MicroSD slot supporting up to 8GB
# 1050 mAh, Li-ion battery
# Linux 2.4.19 kernel.

"The iKit will sample in the fourth quarter and then ship commercially in 1Q 2009 for $175 (130 Euros),"

Scrap that frivalous webcam go back to a less crippled UI, add a battery with better capacity and they could be on to a winner

edit: ahem, I hate the notion of being a stereotype, but alas..)

There's only one place this device will end up, and it might a big enough market to save it: In the hands of geeks. Because it is Linux based, it could prove to be a very useful hacking platform, and that SD card slot means dropping in custom firmware should be a breeze.

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/10/i … it-te.html

Last edited by evol (2008-10-27 04:03:25)

Arch Linux

#1 2008-10-22 19:41:27

Wanted:"Terminal"

#2 2008-10-22 19:56:44

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#3 2008-10-22 20:41:38

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#4 2008-10-22 20:51:09

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#5 2008-10-23 00:04:03

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#6 2008-10-23 00:46:19

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#7 2008-10-23 04:16:25

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#8 2008-10-23 06:57:36

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#9 2008-10-23 07:01:16

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#10 2008-10-23 13:43:29

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#11 2008-10-23 14:15:28

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#12 2008-10-23 14:30:09

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#13 2008-10-23 14:36:53

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#14 2008-10-23 14:38:56

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#15 2008-10-23 15:17:21

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#16 2008-10-23 16:00:04

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#17 2008-10-23 16:08:34

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#18 2008-10-23 16:23:00

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#19 2008-10-23 18:43:08

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#20 2008-10-24 07:49:57

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#21 2008-10-24 19:34:24

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#22 2008-10-24 20:03:06

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

#23 2008-10-27 03:28:47

Re: Wanted:"Terminal"

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