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#1 2008-11-07 16:44:41

chochem
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From: Denmark
Registered: 2008-03-02
Posts: 176
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Mesa - still out-of-date

I seem to recall great promises about the radeon driver finally receving some 3d love with the 7.2 mesa update (it's been a while - late september methinks - so I don't recall exactly what or how)... However, the repos seem stuck at 7.0. I am not whining or complaing - just curious: Is there some reason other than the-maintainer-hasn't-had-time? Is the release permanently unstable? Illegal? Caught using performance enhancing drugs?

Last edited by chochem (2008-11-07 16:46:11)

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#2 2008-11-07 17:16:14

xdeusx
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Registered: 2007-10-15
Posts: 168

Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

It is in [testing]

i686      Testing      mesa      7.2-1      Mesa OpenGL library      2008-09-25

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#3 2008-11-11 17:11:25

chochem
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From: Denmark
Registered: 2008-03-02
Posts: 176
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Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

Thanks for the tip. I enabled testing, installed mesa, libgl and libdrm (the last two listed as mesa dependencies and differed in testing from extra though the upgrades weren't required by pacman) and now stuff like neverball and tux racer just crashes X. Tried to prune my xorg.conf of any 'fancy' settings but it still doesn't work. Suppose that mght be reason for them  not being moved to extra - either that or the fact that the testng versions have no maintainer listed.

Either way, it doesn't look promising. Ironically, ubuntu is actually more cutting edge here... Tried a test install and even glitzy compiz effects worked without fglrx.

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#4 2008-11-12 02:43:30

anrxc
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From: Croatia
Registered: 2008-03-22
Posts: 834
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Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

Is there some reason other than the-maintainer-hasn't-had-time? Is the release permanently unstable? Illegal? Caught using performance enhancing drugs?
<snip>
Either way, it doesn't look promising.

It just isn't the best time to upgrade/go testing. There is a new memory manager, DRI2 was stripped from Mesa... it's just a mess that is hard to follow. Browse trough Phoronix http://www.phoronix.com if you wan't to (try to) pick up the pieces.


You need to install an RTFM interface.

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#5 2008-11-12 03:19:32

SnapShot
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Registered: 2008-08-26
Posts: 43

Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

I think that mesa is waiting for xorg-server 1.5.x to be moved to extra. All the xorg stuff, with graphic drivers, mesa, dri... will probably be moved together to extra very soon.

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#6 2008-11-12 11:10:20

jacko
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Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 840

Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

and now stuff like neverball and tux racer just crashes X

when you use testing your either in all the way or your not in at all. Installing 3 files from testing is about the easiest way to cause system instability.

So either be patient or dive all the way into the testing repo. Just FYI, xorg-server from testing will cause X not to start w/o some user intervention unless you are already using evdev drivers for mouse and keyboard.

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#7 2008-11-22 23:05:12

SardarNL
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Registered: 2008-11-22
Posts: 10

Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

I've updated xorg + mesa from testing to solve crashing of Java apps when using Java2D on opengl (libgl.so crash) - problem not solved.

The performance of opengl (glxgears) was dropped from 1.5k fps -> 60 fps. DRI is enabled (requires libdrm and xf86-video-intel from testing), no errors/warnings in log (dri/card0 found, no mem. allocating errors). glxinfo reports RDI enabled, correct driver (i945GM), but prints "Failed to initialize TTM buffer manager. Falling back to classic". No idea what this means, but definitely the source of the performance downgrade.

The synaptics package was replaced by xf86-input-synaptics, which doesn't correctly understand synaptics options (wrong acceleration, to slow).

So, at least for me, should remain in testing.

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#8 2008-11-23 02:10:07

SnapShot
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Registered: 2008-08-26
Posts: 43

Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

@SardarNL
There is nothing wrong with performance of your Xorg setup. VSync is enabled by default on newer Intel drivers, that's why you get exactly 60fps, the same as your monitor refresh rate - 60Hz.

BTW, glxgears is not recommended as performance benchmark.

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#9 2008-11-23 03:41:51

Inkaine
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-07-14
Posts: 88

Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

Indeed, it's no benchmark at all. Just look at the trillions of threads on the forums on all of your issues. You can solve that with disabling vblank in .driconf. Still you won't get 1.5k in glxgears back until the release of kernel 2.6.28. The "error" you see is the intel driver looking for GEM but not finding it as we won't get it before .28. It's a decision by the intel driver devs, nothing arch devs can do about. So why should the latest packages remain in testing just because you don't like their functionality? Just don't update to them if you're happy with what you have now. Or go for the "-git" equivilants of all these packages from AUR to get latest performance. Intel drivers are not for 3D anyways, so who cares if it's 1.5k or 60fps. Not to mention that even with these values performance in OpenGL might be equal...

And regarding synaptics, please, not thread #10 about that. Why don't people read pacman's output after install? They xorg-server package has a nicely made post-install script, which apparently nobody cares about... Learn to read before you rant. mad [/my_rant]

Back to the original thread:

chochem wrote:

I seem to recall great promises about the radeon driver finally receving some 3d love with the 7.2 mesa update

It's definately not in mesa 7.2 and I wouldn't expect any of this before the end of the year. From what I recall from phoronix we might see something on the opensource 3D front by then. Still, reasonable performance won't arrive until Xorg 7.5 with Gallium3D (if we'll see it by then at all).

Last edited by Inkaine (2008-11-23 03:47:24)

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#10 2008-11-23 11:23:09

chochem
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From: Denmark
Registered: 2008-03-02
Posts: 176
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Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

Inkaine wrote:

It's definately not in mesa 7.2 and I wouldn't expect any of this before the end of the year. From what I recall from phoronix we might see something on the opensource 3D front by then. Still, reasonable performance won't arrive until Xorg 7.5 with Gallium3D (if we'll see it by then at all).

I believe the ubuntu wiki was the original reason for me getting my hopes up - maybe I've misunderstood or misread it?  I think I then went on to investigate this 'backported mesa' thing and came to the conclusion that this change had been introduced in 7.1/7.2. I don't know what the significance of it is, but again, Compiz-Fusion w/ effects ran - relatively - smoothly on my Ubuntu (8.10) install without FGLRX...

Last edited by chochem (2008-11-23 11:29:17)

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#11 2008-11-23 13:19:48

Inkaine
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From: Germany
Registered: 2008-07-14
Posts: 88

Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

Oh sorry, then I might have misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about OpenGL and stuff. The ubuntu link is correct and you thought basically right. The ati/radeon driver already has had basic 3D acceleration for R500 chipsets (don't ask me which all of these are but might be those listed in the ubuntu thread, I have an R600 myself wink ) for a couple months. Compiz and KDE desktop effects will definately be fine on such a graphics card with open source drivers.

As others have already pointed out just updating mesa won't be enough for that though as there are too many interdependencies between all these packages. So either take all of new X from mesa or wait for it being pushed to extra. According to the maintainer we might see xorg-server 1.5 (and dependencies) there the coming days anyways.

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#12 2008-11-24 10:29:03

chochem
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From: Denmark
Registered: 2008-03-02
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

Inkaine wrote:

Oh sorry, then I might have misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about OpenGL and stuff. The ubuntu link is correct and you thought basically right.

Well, you are partly right, as I figured that it was two sides of the same coin but obivously, it's not, I can tell. Teach me to research things properly, I guess...

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#13 2008-12-03 16:40:02

chochem
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2008-03-02
Posts: 176
Website

Re: Mesa - still out-of-date

Well, X-mess-day 7.4 is here and as it turned out, both opengl and overlays/compositing is greatly enhanced... Or maybe it's just that I threw out my old xorg.conf in the process. Either way, I'm satisfied.

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