You are not logged in.

#1 2008-12-21 01:22:03

scooterpd
Member
Registered: 2008-09-01
Posts: 29

Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

I posted this topic in order to get as many knowledgeable opinions on the best way to do things.  Feel free to comment on whatever you choose, I just enjoy picking peoples' brains and hearing their ideas.  I am on a quest for info and knowledge.  Any and all helpful comments/criticisms are greatly appreciated.

Here is a basic rundown of what I have and what I want to accomplish.
What I have:  HP Pavilion 17" dv8000t CTO notebook (Intel T2400 1.8Ghz, 2GB RAM, 80GB (x2) HDD, Nvidia GeForce GO 7600, Intel PRO/Wireless 3945abg.
Goals:  I have purchased a 320GB hard drive to drop into my notebook so that i can take my ever-expanding media collection with me on the go w/o having to plug in an external device in order to enjoy it.  My notebook has two hard drive bays, and currently I have Windows XP Pro on the first 80gb hdd, and Arch installed on the second 80gb hdd. 

[EDIT]:  1)  Taking Ruckus' suggestion, I want Windows and Arch OS's sharing the 80GB in the first drive bay, and put all of my media and backups on the 320GB in the second drive bay.
[EDIT]:  I am assuming i can install the OS's on the 80gb drive that is in bay #2 currently, then just take the drive out of bay #1 out and put the one that i had in bay #2 into bay #1, and everything will still work fine and i will be able to boot up either OS.  Then i would throw in my 320gb hdd in bay #2.  I hope that makes sense. 
 
[EDIT]:  2)  I think i want to set up the partitioning scheme as follows:
sda1 = /boot        (250mb)                          sdb1 = /data        (~200gb)
sda2 = Windows   (~15-20gb)                      sdb2 = /backups   (~100gb)
sda3 = /              (~20gb)
sda4 = /var         (~8 GB)
sda5 = swap        (~1.5 GB)
sda6 = /home      (~the rest)

I plan on encrypting at least my personal documents (probably just a folder in sdb1), as they are probably the only sensitive information that i have (i don't see a need to encrypt music or videos or anything like that).

I will continue to take any and all suggestions, be it hardware related or for recommended software for encryption/backups/DE's/whatever.  I just want to hear what people like and prefer.  Once again, any and all helpful comments/criticisms are greatly appreciated.  Thank you very much.

Last edited by scooterpd (2008-12-23 21:56:16)

Offline

#2 2008-12-21 01:39:34

Vintendo
Member
From: Netherlands
Registered: 2008-04-21
Posts: 375
Website

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

1) That depends on how much you use windows, and how long per time. I wouldn't want to work in a vm for 4 hours but that's just personal. I would use it for backups though, so if the hard drive dies, you have a backup on a different drive.

Offline

#3 2008-12-21 02:37:50

Ruckus
Member
Registered: 2007-02-17
Posts: 204

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

If it was me, I would leave the 80gb drive as the main hdd, and install both windows and Linux to it. Its been my experience that an OS doesn't really need more than 10-20gb at the most, unless you have some specific applications that you need to install that use a lot more. And then use your 320gb drive as a data drive for both OS's.

sda1/ = Windows (20gb)
sda2/ = / (20gb)
sda2/ = /var (10gb)
sda3/ = /home
sda4/ = swap (512mb?)

On most systems, you don't really need a lot of swap. The old rule to use twice as much ram isn't that usefull these days, unless you have < 512mb ram, or do video encoding or graphic editing that requires a significant amount of ram. (I have 756mb ram, and I NEVER use more than 500mb ram, on a full gnome desktop.)

Your data will be the biggest consumer of your space, and IMO it makes more sense to have the data separate from the OS installations.

Last edited by Ruckus (2008-12-21 02:39:37)

Offline

#4 2008-12-21 16:18:38

scooterpd
Member
Registered: 2008-09-01
Posts: 29

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

@ Vintendo:  I only plan on using Windows for playing 3d games that I don't want to try to get working using Wine, and maybe to do some remote support via Teamviewer 4 for others (I don't know if it works well under Wine, havent tried it).  But that is all i really do exclusively on Windows - games and remote support.  If i could find a reliable way to do that in Linux, either through Wine or using Virtualbox, i would much prefer that. 

@ Ruckus:  Ok, that makes sense.  If i do end up keeping Windows, that is probably the best way to do it.  I didn't even think about it that way.  The 320GB drive could be totally separate from the OS's, and i can store media and backups on it.  Interesting info about swap too.  You recommend around 512mb for swap?  I can dig it.

Thank you both for your input.  I really appreciate you guys taking the time to share your ideas and enlightening me.  You both have good points that got me thinking.  I hope to hear more.

Offline

#5 2008-12-21 22:52:39

Ruckus
Member
Registered: 2007-02-17
Posts: 204

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

Yeah, quick note, be sure you have windows installed onto sda1, otherwise it won't be C: in windows but like F: or something else, and there are a lot of bad coders on windows who hard code C: in as the root drive for their applications.

Also, just to clarify, I'm not saying that swap is bad, just most modern systems have so much ram that they don't ever need to swap more than a few MB at most.

Offline

#6 2008-12-22 00:01:14

tom5760
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Registered: 2006-02-05
Posts: 283
Website

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

One note about swap with laptops.  You need to have at least as much swap as you do RAM if you want to hibernate.  If hibernating is not something you plan on doing, then you could probably have a pretty small swap partition.

Offline

#7 2008-12-22 06:51:58

scooterpd
Member
Registered: 2008-09-01
Posts: 29

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

Ruckus wrote:

Yeah, quick note, be sure you have windows installed onto sda1, otherwise it won't be C: in windows but like F: or something else...

Do you think it is better to install Windows first and Arch afterwards?  Or the other way around?  Also, in previous experiences I have been having troubles with the time syncing properly over my windows and arch installs.  I don't care if the time is incorrect in windows, but i want it to stay accurate when I'm in Arch.  Should I set up my Arch install using UTC, or will that have a major effect on my Windows install other than the time being incorrect?

tom5760 wrote:

One note about swap with laptops.  You need to have at least as much swap as you do RAM if you want to hibernate...

I haven't planned on using hibernation, but now that you mention it I do want the option.  So i should set up swap with at least 2GB ram?  What would you recommend (between 2 - 2.5Gb)?

Offline

#8 2008-12-22 07:19:48

Super Jamie
Member
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2008-12-15
Posts: 79
Website

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

I always put a 250mb /boot partition as the first partition of any linux OS drive. It sucks having an install going for a year, then suddenly your kernel updates out of readable range of the BIOS. I've never seen the need to set a separate /var partition, but that's just me. If you run out of primary partitions on the first drive, don't forget you can move some stuff (definitely swap) over to the second drive.

For your media drive, ext2fs in Windows or ntfs-3g in Linux, the choice is yours. If you spend more time in Lunix, and are just using Windows to play games, ext3 seems a more logical option. I've found ntfs-3g has problems with ntfs filesystems if the drive isn't unmounted cleanly, you'll then need to boot into Windows and chkdsk/scandisk before Linux will mount the drive again. I've never played much with ext2fs to know its' ins and outs.

I'd setup your partitions with cfdisk, install Windows, then install Arch. Use GRUB in MBR as a bootloader, and just "chainloader +1" to your Windows partition, because Windows' boot.ini is awful. There's a commented-out option to do just this in the default GRUB menu.lst that comes with Arch.

Offline

#9 2008-12-22 17:25:53

scooterpd
Member
Registered: 2008-09-01
Posts: 29

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

Super Jamie wrote:

I always put a 250mb /boot partition as the first partition of any linux OS drive... I'd setup your partitions with cfdisk, install Windows, then install Arch. Use GRUB in MBR as a bootloader, and just "chainloader +1" to your Windows partition.

1) Does it matter where the Windows partition is actually located on the drive (sda1, sda4, sda6)?  If not, could i just put them in order like:  /boot, /, /home, /swap, /Windows?  Or does Windows have to actually be one of the first partitions on the drive, ie: /boot, /Windows, /, /home, /swap?  Also, I quoted Ruckus just above this post, and it mentioned the drive letter of Windows to be something other than the most common C:.  Do you think that is an issue if the few things i do install under Windows allow me to change the install directory upon setup?   
2) I would much rather install GRUB in MBR over crappy Windows boot.ini.  I really don't like anything about Winblows other than games, Autohotkey, and Teamviewer.

Offline

#10 2008-12-22 21:23:34

Ruckus
Member
Registered: 2007-02-17
Posts: 204

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

scooterpd wrote:
Super Jamie wrote:

I always put a 250mb /boot partition as the first partition of any linux OS drive... I'd setup your partitions with cfdisk, install Windows, then install Arch. Use GRUB in MBR as a bootloader, and just "chainloader +1" to your Windows partition.

1) Does it matter where the Windows partition is actually located on the drive (sda1, sda4, sda6)?  If not, could i just put them in order like:  /boot, /, /home, /swap, /Windows?  Or does Windows have to actually be one of the first partitions on the drive, ie: /boot, /Windows, /, /home, /swap?  Also, I quoted Ruckus just above this post, and it mentioned the drive letter of Windows to be something other than the most common C:.  Do you think that is an issue if the few things i do install under Windows allow me to change the install directory upon setup?   
2) I would much rather install GRUB in MBR over crappy Windows boot.ini.  I really don't like anything about Winblows other than games, Autohotkey, and Teamviewer.

Yeah, if windows is not on the first partition then it wont be labeled as C:, but somethine else, for most stuff this doesn't matter, but you will probably find a few quirks here and there because of it, I've found its better to just install it as the first partition because it really doesn't matter where they are located under linux. You can always put the swap partition in the extended partitons if you run out of partitions.

Offline

#11 2008-12-22 21:57:09

Zariel
Member
Registered: 2008-10-07
Posts: 446

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

you can rename and change drive letters in windows

Offline

#12 2008-12-22 23:05:21

Super Jamie
Member
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2008-12-15
Posts: 79
Website

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

It's been a fair while since I've had a PC with Windows on it, though from memory you'll have to install it to a Primary partition, maybe one of the first two or three.

You can install to D: then change that letter to C:, however there's alot of stuff in the registry which will break and assist in making the OS even more unstable wink

Offline

#13 2008-12-23 00:50:11

tom5760
Member
From: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Registered: 2006-02-05
Posts: 283
Website

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

scooterpd wrote:
tom5760 wrote:

One note about swap with laptops.  You need to have at least as much swap as you do RAM if you want to hibernate...

I haven't planned on using hibernation, but now that you mention it I do want the option.  So i should set up swap with at least 2GB ram?  What would you recommend (between 2 - 2.5Gb)?

You know, I'm not actually sure.  On my laptop, I have slightly more swap space than RAM, so I'd say if you can afford the space, an extra .5GB wont hurt. wink

Offline

#14 2008-12-23 21:53:52

scooterpd
Member
Registered: 2008-09-01
Posts: 29

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

I got this from the dual-boot wiki (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Win … _Dual_Boot):

2. Very Important, remember to note down your partitions numbers: "sda1, sda2... sda8". So note down which type of partitions belong to which partition number. For example:
sda1: Windows (30GB is enough for some games)
sda2: /boot (100MB is plenty)
sda3: / (about 10-16GB is good)
sda4: swap (between 512MB and 1024MB)
sda5: /home (use rest of hard drive)

It is important to note that there is a 1024 cylinder limit with some older BIOSs. This means that the BIOS cannot access things beyond the 1024th cylinder (about 8.5GB), so the /boot partition should be in the first 8.5GB (in space before Windows partition).

This is a little confusing to me.  the wiki provides an example that seems to contradict the important note just below it.  I must be missing something.  I think i am just going to set it up as it is currently in my original post, with /boot on sda1 and Windows on sda2. 

i know Windows and root partitions must be primary, but what about the others (/boot, /var)?

Thank you all for your help.  I really appreciate it.

Last edited by scooterpd (2008-12-23 21:55:44)

Offline

#15 2008-12-24 13:05:05

Ruckus
Member
Registered: 2007-02-17
Posts: 204

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't change the main boot/root drive letter on windows can you?

And the only partitions which HAVE to be primary are any partitions you boot to, which is /boot and the windows partition.

The first 4 partitions are primary partitions, or 5 if thats all of the partitions, but you can make the 5th partition into an extended partition, which can contain multiple partitions (all of which are NOT primary)

Offline

#16 2009-01-15 17:08:49

scooterpd
Member
Registered: 2008-09-01
Posts: 29

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

Sweet.  Thank you all for your help.  I ended up installing Windows first, then Arch and all of its partitions.  Then I went back into Windows and installed ext2fs so that Windows could read my arch partitions.  Then i went ahead and edited the Windows registry and changed the values of the various partitions so that i could get the drive letters i wanted.  Presto chango, its perfect now.
Now i am in the process of resizing my /data partition a little smaller so that i can create an ntfs partition just for installing windows games onto. 

Do you guys have any opinions on the best way to backup my system?  I want to be able to backup both my windows and arch partitions perfectly so that, in the case of a hard drive failure, i can easily set my system back up the exact way it was without having to reinstall any OS.  i plan on putting the backups on my 320gb drive, then periodically moving those backups to an external hdd.  any suggestions?  once again thank you all for your input.  you guys are awesome and have helped me out a lot.

Offline

#17 2009-01-15 22:19:45

jelly
Administrator
From: /dev/null
Registered: 2008-06-10
Posts: 714

Re: Opinions/suggestions on installing/setting up Arch on notebook.

scooterpd wrote:

Sweet.  Thank you all for your help.  I ended up installing Windows first, then Arch and all of its partitions.  Then I went back into Windows and installed ext2fs so that Windows could read my arch partitions.  Then i went ahead and edited the Windows registry and changed the values of the various partitions so that i could get the drive letters i wanted.  Presto chango, its perfect now.
Now i am in the process of resizing my /data partition a little smaller so that i can create an ntfs partition just for installing windows games onto. 

Do you guys have any opinions on the best way to backup my system?  I want to be able to backup both my windows and arch partitions perfectly so that, in the case of a hard drive failure, i can easily set my system back up the exact way it was without having to reinstall any OS.  i plan on putting the backups on my 320gb drive, then periodically moving those backups to an external hdd.  any suggestions?  once again thank you all for your input.  you guys are awesome and have helped me out a lot.

Clonezilla is a nice tool to backup a whole partition, it works with a live-cd/usb/hd and you can backup to a remote ssh server, samba share, usb.drive/key. Just take a look on the website for more information http://clonezilla.org/. Oh and it also handles windows FS

Another tip: make a backup to a external medium like usbstick, external hd. Because if your laptop got stolen or something crashes, hd failure. You still have backups at your home

Last edited by jelly (2009-01-16 08:48:12)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB