An Idea for a linux distribution

Convergence · 2009-03-13 14:06:54

Basically, I had my grandma in mind when I came up with this idea. I thought about entitling this thread "linux distro for grandmas" but decided against it, because it might be offensive to some (I'm pretty sure that somewhere in this great big world there is a grandma who is a great linux admin). Besides, I know a number of people that aren't my grandma that this would be perfect for.

Basically, there is usually a trade off between power and ease of use amongst Linux distributions. On one end of the spectrum you have umm... ubuntu and xandros(?) and on the other you have Linux from Scratch. Anyway, my grandma would have a tough time with even the simplest distributions unless it was set up by a very patient and thoughtful admin.

So my idea is to make a distribution that offers virtually no options to confuse the user. Once the computer is booted, the user is confronted with a graphical login where they simply click (user1). From there, they are presented with a few icons with titles such as "surf the internet", "check email", etc. (maybe this is too patronizing?)

I think that by default, their should be two users, one for the primary user, and one for guests, just to prevent guests from messing things up by screwing with configurations, or looking up pornography. I think that there are programs that convert linux boxes into dummy terminals which might help in such a distribution. (maybe we can make certain config files read only)

This distribution should run on just about anything by default, and be a dream come true for any admin who wants to quickly and easily setup a computer for a friend or loved one (or fellow employees). The installation process should be as simple as clicking "yes you're sure and you understand that by installing you will erase everything on the harddrive". (ok, maybe we could include a few more options than that)

This distribution would be unsuitable for anyone who would want to install or upgrade their own software, or play 3d games etc. It should include support for playing music, surfing the internet, reading email, and all of the basics that many many people want to use their computer for.(without understanding ANYTHING about it) I'd also like to make it unnecessary for end users to know any passwords, or commands period.

No one wants grandma to get hacked, but it would be nice to remotely admin these installations (although ideally, the need for administer's intervention would be absolutely minimal). So I was thinking that in addition to the two end user login accounts, we would need a login account meant exclusively for logging in via ssh, and, of course root. the ssh specific login name and password would have to be chosen during installation, and this would be the only account that is accessible by ssh. This user would be the only member of the wheel group. Root... well root is root.

Anyway, a quick google around didn't reveal any projects that had these goals in mind. I just dreamed this up an hour ago, so it is not even well developed as a concept yet.

Is this interesting to anyone else?

Last edited by Convergence (2009-03-13 14:13:38)

Convergence · 2009-03-13 14:20:45

my god, I've already found something similar in this very forum: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=66964 It's probably a very popular idea.

edit: No, I misread it. It wasn't an idea for a distribution, but rather someone looking for suggestions for a perfect distribution. My (theoretical) distribution would be perfectly well suited for this purpose.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that others have had this idea. Like I said, I did a quick google search, and found nothing that fits the bill.

Last edited by Convergence (2009-03-13 14:26:13)

Primoz · 2009-03-13 14:31:27

I just hate the idea of trying get poor grandmas to Linux. Maybe that's because both of my grandmas come from rural environment where they wouldn't see a car up to their 10-birthday or something...
I see no problem if a grandma/grandpa tries computer or even Linux if they have the knowledge of it.
Someone's grandpa might be in Bletchley Park trying to crack the Enigma code or developing some other supercomputers back in fifties, but most of them can't even use a TV right how will they know how to use computer...
Sorry I'm ranting but I really hate all that I want to convert my grandma to Linux stories.
And I feel that any "mainstream" Linux distro is good for a normal user. I know that I found Ubuntu installation to be easier than Windows XP installation.

bgc1954 · 2009-03-13 15:43:54

I wouldn't dare call my wife a grandma but her computer skills are right up there with grams. For her, Arch Linux is setup with pekwm, pypanel with icons for openoffice, firefox, logout and shutdown and idesk with icons for openoffice, firefox, logout and shutdown computer. Her username and password are posted on a sticky note, just below the screen. No icons for terminals or anything complicated like that. I doubt she even knows that clicking on the screen will give her a pekwm menu--I never pointed that out to her...on purpose.

zenlord · 2009-03-13 16:03:45

I think you don't need a completely new distribution, but rather some very easy GUI's for existing programs, so that once you have setup your Arch-for-grandma-linux, you can just point and click to do almost everything that a casual browser/emailer would do.

Maybe it is even as easy as to pick the right progs and configure them automatically. F.e. gdm and kdm have already an option to show a picture with the username next to it, whereas slim doesn't IIRC.

My grandfather is 84 years old and has been using a computer for the last 2 years. I have invested a lot of time in his lessons, and he has no doubt forgotten half of what he has learnt, but the problem lies not with programs not being friendly, it's rather getting used to using the mouse and getting used to how a screen is typically laid out. Maybe if one could make a GUI that resembles a tv remote control? But then again that would be to limited to be useful I guess.

Zl.

Last edited by zenlord (2009-03-13 16:09:14)

u_no_hu · 2009-03-13 19:07:20

Most of the new netbook interfaces are exactly what you described.

EVRAMP · 2009-03-13 20:11:00

I think distribution called "easy peasy" is what you are looking for.

lilsirecho · 2009-03-13 20:34:54

My wife is a great grandmother and uses Puppy Linux every day..............

deltaecho · 2009-03-14 01:47:28

I haven't checked much into it, but Google's Android platform may become such a distribution; being netbook/mobile-centric, I would imagine its interface is almost entirely point-and-click.

Convergence · 2009-03-14 10:15:24

zenlord wrote:

I think you don't need a completely new distribution, but rather some very easy GUI's for existing programs, so that once you have setup your Arch-for-grandma-linux, you can just point and click to do almost everything that a casual browser/emailer would do.
Zl.

My idea would be to package this collection of GUI's so that each person who has to help their grandma out with their computer doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. We choose these very easy gui tools, configure them, package it, and bamn! thousands of grandmas around the world have a ridiculously easy to use computer.

I was unaware of Easy Peasy. This isn't exactly what I'm describing, I think that it has similar goals. I didn't find a whole lot of information on it, but it is possible that, Linux Easily Administered, or LEA (my idea for a name) could be a variant of Easy Peasy.

I was also thinking that the focus on 'Grandma' might be unnecessary. This distribution might be ideal for places like libraries, or businesses where lower level employees need access to just a few functions of the computer.

Dieter@be · 2009-03-14 10:36:15

I know exactly what you mean. My mom is basically scared of clicking on any button if I didn't tell her specifically "you don't need this" or "it won't harm anything"
For such people, the simpler, the better. to the extreme.

My dad bought a netbook recently, running Linpus (though it's now running windows :roll:)
It looks like this http://www.thelinuxshop.co.uk/catalog/i … x_lite.jpg (actually you can switch betwoon "simple" and "normal" mode), I think that's a pretty good match for what we want. though you can take the concept even further I think. It's based on fedora and it looks like you can download it all. See http://www.linpus.com/download_1.php

lilsirecho · 2009-03-16 23:24:37

Best Linux for older citizens is a "live" system running from USB Flash.

When trouble hits, learn only to reboot!!!!!

Llama · 2009-03-20 07:16:35

2 Convergence:

Look at the Pardus Linux. It is not exactly a "granny" distro, but a real candidate for the next best thing. I've installed it on an old notebook (256M RAM); current LiveCDs of such tried and true newbie distros like MEPIS and PCLinuxOS won't run on it; Pardus does. Besides, it doesn't look like 'any other distro' at all, if you can believe that ...

Last edited by Llama (2009-03-20 07:18:13)

arkay · 2009-03-20 08:10:35

It's not just Grannies that could use this. Just yesterday I had some windows using friends touting the benefits of Xandros Presto. Essentially what you are talking about is a similar concept. I like the idea too, and even better would be if a very few applications could be customised as packages that are available for download as extensions. Rather than every GNU app packaged with scarce descriptions it would be great to select a main tool for each category and document it, make it installable into the chosen GUI, even have pretty little logo graphics for each app. Really user friendly. You'd have to look seriously into the Gui layout of the main selections screen as well as each individual app so that it was uniform across the board. I've always thought it would be better for this type of thing to limit the way things can be done also. Most interfaces give numerous ways of completing the same task. It'd be much simpler if there were only one primary way (even if the others were there but hidden, like keyboard shortcuts), so there is still room for advanced users to speed things up a bit.

Being able to trim it all down to single option answers to basic operational questions would be fantastic. There would also have to be no update manager, or if there was it should be designed to ship updates once a month tops. No kernel updates, no nvidia updates. Just a perfectly working balance of good apps that can't be broken easily.

"Fantastic" would also be a great distro name

The only thing I find wrong with this way of thinking though is that it seem like everyone can create a new distro but no-one seems to work on the interface of the applications, or the total system. i.e. Making a distro you can only use what applications are available and if you choose openoffice for your office suite and there is an issue with it, you can't fix it, therefore you can't control the stability of the system. It can only all come together properly when the applications can be simplified in conjunction with the OS UI and the authors have enough control to fix both the distro, and the applications.

Cheers,

Arkay.

Last edited by arkay (2009-03-20 08:15:33)

don_crissti · 2009-03-20 08:53:52

It should include support for playing music, surfing the internet, reading email, and all of the basics that many many people want to use their computer for.(without understanding ANYTHING about it) I'd also like to make it unnecessary for end users to know any passwords, or commands period.

They're trying to do that with splashtop:

http://www.splashtop.com/

Dieter@be · 2009-03-20 13:17:23

don_crissti wrote:

It should include support for playing music, surfing the internet, reading email, and all of the basics that many many people want to use their computer for.(without understanding ANYTHING about it) I'd also like to make it unnecessary for end users to know any passwords, or commands period.
They're trying to do that with splashtop:
http://www.splashtop.com/

Hmm.. yeah sort of. afaik splashtops primary goal is to be able to boot really fast into a simple environment. Sure it's pretty newbiefriendly but it may be a bit limited. (eg my mom has the usual things like firefox/thunderbird/.. but also a specific application for her business. So a "full" linux system may be a better pick, but I guess it depends on the use case)

Sand & Mercury · 2009-03-20 14:52:34

In my multimedia class we covered a topic named 'Designing interfaces for your mum', which is a similar kind of paradigm. The task is squarely on simplicity of use and a non-confusing presentation.

I think Linux Mint might just about have this base covered, or at least, they're working on it and doing pretty well so far. Very user-friendly, has multimedia codecs built in OOTB, and the updater has 'ranks' for different kinds of upgrades (on a scale of safe to not-so-safe) instead of telling you about universe, multiverse, backports, etc.

Not so sure if there's a very big market for grandmas at the moment But who knows, it may be an untapped niche.

toad · 2009-03-20 15:01:52

I basically did something similar for my mum - based it on Mepis or Kubuntu (can't remember), made large scale modifications to KDE (3.5 at the time) such as bigger fonts, radical menu simplification and a nice low contrast kdm splash and desktop image. Since then at least FOUR people have started using "my" distro (I gave a few live installable CDs to my mum to pass on to interested parties).

Anyway, she's happy, they're happy and most of all they think I'm a computing genius (if they only knew...).

Bottom line is: kiss principle, the less there is to see/click, the better!

As for a "base" distro - I'd prolly go for some debian thing. Prolly sidux 'cos it is rolling release. However, if the system is not supposed to be updated, then lenny all the way!

What kind of wm/de to use? I reckon kde or gnome are the obvious candidates with large clickable icons. Fluxbox is a nightmare for anyone not totally comfortable with the mouse and all its buttons so I'd count that one out. Having never used awesome or opendesktop before I cannot comment on those...

Anyway, I subscribed to this thread to see whether a) anything comes of it and b) there is anything I can do to help.

haxit · 2009-03-20 15:37:03

This is basically Xandros on EEE PC or Acer Aspire One. However, this is a good idea.

Arch Linux

#1 2009-03-13 14:06:54

An Idea for a linux distribution

#2 2009-03-13 14:20:45

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#3 2009-03-13 14:31:27

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#4 2009-03-13 15:43:54

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#5 2009-03-13 16:03:45

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#6 2009-03-13 19:07:20

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#7 2009-03-13 20:11:00

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#8 2009-03-13 20:34:54

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#9 2009-03-14 01:47:28

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#10 2009-03-14 10:15:24

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#11 2009-03-14 10:36:15

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#12 2009-03-16 23:24:37

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#13 2009-03-20 07:16:35

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#14 2009-03-20 08:10:35

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#15 2009-03-20 08:53:52

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#16 2009-03-20 13:17:23

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#17 2009-03-20 14:52:34

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#18 2009-03-20 15:01:52

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

#19 2009-03-20 15:37:03

Re: An Idea for a linux distribution

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