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#1 2004-10-21 13:29:51

lpratt
Member
From: Upstate New York
Registered: 2004-09-06
Posts: 16

Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

Gentlemen,

I updated the latest udev via pacman -Syu and now my sound doesn't function anymore - this happens in both XFce and KDE I get the same error message when either loads.

Sound Server Informational Message - Error while Initializing Sound Driver - device /dev/dsp no such file or directory

When I checked there was indeed no /dev/dsp.

I checked alsamixer - everything was muted - I unmuted everything and it still gives me the error message.

Any Help Would be Greatly Appreciated...:)

Lee

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#2 2004-10-21 14:14:33

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

you need to enable oss emulation... settings probably got overwritten

try alsaconf and make sure you're loading snd-pcm-oss

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#3 2004-10-21 14:27:26

lpratt
Member
From: Upstate New York
Registered: 2004-09-06
Posts: 16

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

A little more info - The sound seems to work ok as root - it's just as my user account that the problem arises...:(

Any suggestions?

Lee

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#4 2004-10-21 14:33:24

dcbdbis
Member
From: Aurora, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-10
Posts: 224

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

Hello Folks,


Sound works as root, but not as my user...........????

So...Same symptoms as Lee as mentioned above...

Dave

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#5 2004-10-21 14:37:25

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

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#6 2004-10-21 14:58:39

dcbdbis
Member
From: Aurora, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-10
Posts: 224

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

Hello,

Thanks for the post. Lets clarify: The sound WORKS. But only as root, not in your user account. So if ALSA had been toasted, one would think that no sound would work anywhere.

Typically, I'd be looking for a permissions issue somewhere.

The problem is that the /dev/dsp entry that KDE is sqawking about, just doesn't exist.

For Grins, I reinstalled all of the alsa stuff w/pacman.

No change.

Root: Sound
User accounts: No sound and the /dev/dsp issue that Lee mentions above.


Thanks!


Dave...............

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#7 2004-10-21 16:10:17

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

READ THE LINK I POSTED

I will summarize, because you can't seem to follow links - your permissions are not setup right, if root can access the sound device and a user cannot, you need to allow the user to read/write to the sound devices.  This is all in the wiki link.

Sound devices should have group ownership by the "sound" group and the users which wish to use sound should be added to the "sound" group.  Again, this is in the link posted.

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#8 2004-10-21 17:01:48

lpratt
Member
From: Upstate New York
Registered: 2004-09-06
Posts: 16

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

phrakture,

First let me thank you for the link - the info there did alow me to correct the problem I had with the sound. I appreciate the help.

Now on a second note - I don't think your rudeness and personal aspersions on my character were either warranted or deserved. Just because I updated my original post with more info before I checked out the link you supplied is no reason for you to get your panties in a bunch and start making alusions to my character. This is not in the spirit of the linux community as a whole and the Arch community as a specific.

But again I thank you for your help if not for your attitude.

Lee

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#9 2004-10-21 18:24:54

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

Next time try the documentation first... if that fails, try google.

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#10 2004-10-21 21:52:01

lpratt
Member
From: Upstate New York
Registered: 2004-09-06
Posts: 16

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

phrakture,

First Point - udev has be updated at least twice since my initial install, I didn't have this problem after either upgrade so there was no reason to immediately think there was a problem with my udev audio settings.

Second point - I came to these forums to post my query because this was a Arch specific problem so I came to the horses mouth - as I understand it these forums are for the interaction of Arch Users, to help each other with problems like this. There was no reason to check Google.

Third point - There was nothing in my posts to initiate your snotty RTFM attitude - your response with the link was very non-specific and read more of a "well it might be this" type of response. Since you like to advise people to read manuals I suggest you read a manual on common courtesy - you'll go a lot farther in life.

Final point - If you don't like me or my querys (a very small number by the way) then by all means Don't Read Them - then you won't be bothered by this dummy anymore.

Cheers

Lee

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#11 2004-10-21 22:37:41

dcbdbis
Member
From: Aurora, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-10
Posts: 224

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

For those who are reading these posts....

There are those of us (speaking for myself), who are working at promoting the adoption of Linux in the home and desktop. Some of us are pushing 50, others are over that line, and many, many brilliant individuals who are much younger just starting out if life.

Our clients that we convert will have personalities and skill sets all over the map. From the brilliant, to the stale twinkie. It is the one area where Windows has hurt our technical savvy as a generation, by hiding stuff from the user, and leaving it in the hands of the "super-tech". Gurus in other words.

Our clients will be most likely be Windows converts. There will be questions, of varying levels of intellect. To some of us, those questions will seem stupid and very irritating, to the person offering the question, it's serious, and is stopping them from doing something on their PC, and thus reducing their productivity.

I would be embarrassed to have a client of mine read these series of posts, especially after I've just finished speaking to a group of business owners, and done a presentation on how Linux is a community working together.

I personally handle tech support calls in my professional life as an engineer as well, and I'll admit, many of the queries get under my skin.......especially from younger engineers who may be lacking in real world experience in business, and clearly still maturing as adults in life.

Despite my personal hackles (which is my own immaturity showing through), many of the problems presented to me seem idiotic to me, yet to my students, they are nothing less than show-stopping.

I still have to bite my tongue, and in a gentle manner, show them how to find the data in their own reference books, or show them how to derive the data themselves.

How school teachers keep their sanity from one class of kids to another bunch of kids, year after year, all of them with the same questions year after year, is beyond me. They are either saints, or have a couple screws loose upstairs....


I offer to all of us here, lets keep our personal frustrations and egos in check, and our unconditional willingness to help up.


To be sure, the written word lacks so much data: facial expression, tone of voice, body language, etc..... So we need to watch how we present things in writing extra carefully, so we aren't sending a message that we don't intend to send.


Find a post that irritates you? Let it go.... Just don't respond. Why give yourself ulcers? Pass it on to someone else.

In Summary: Cooperation, courtesy, and respect should be the norm.


<Dad finishes his bedside chat>



Dave...

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#12 2004-10-21 22:39:08

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

I do love a good flame war evey now and again, but I'm not going to be childish here.  I am upset because this is something everyone does... not just you.  I can tell you that at least half of the problems I see people having, I open google, search, read about a paragraph on the first hit google finds and post it - then i get a "thanks that fixed it" response.

People need to learn how to be self-sufficient.  Search for yourself, read the documentation.

And, hell, about this quote:

lpratt wrote:

this was a Arch specific problem so I came to the horses mouth - as I understand it these forums are for the interaction of Arch Users, to help each other with problems like this. There was no reason to check Google.

Your understanding of the help forums is not correct.  Requesting help in forums is a last resort.  Problems arise on forums such as this multiple times, and there is no sense in repeating the answer over and over again.... that is why the wiki was started - to have a set of documentation that users can update with common help to others' problems.  However, the wiki will not succeed if no one reads it.  You will find many posts such as: "How do I do X?" with a response of: "it's in the wiki ... <link>"... however this gets to be a bit boring to respond like this all the time.
This is not a flame, so don't get so upset... http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-que … html#forum
(sarah31 hates this FAQ).  In addition, doesn't the URL (http://wiki.archlinux.com) qualify as going straight to the horses mouth?

That link, while deragatory, is true.  I am not trying to be "snotty" as you put it.
I am more than willing to help.... however when I post a link to the exact solution to a problem and someone responds with "that wasn't very specific" (BTW, the first line of the wiki says "This document tells how to get Alsa working with both the 2.4 and 2.6 kernels"... it's terribly ambiguous, I know) I get frustrated.

lpratt wrote:

There was nothing in my posts to initiate your snotty RTFM attitude - your response with the link was very non-specific and read more of a "well it might be this" type of response. Since you like to advise people to read manuals I suggest you read a manual on common courtesy - you'll go a lot farther in life.

For the record, my response was "hey we have a wiki" and I posted 2 links... how can that be misread?  And as for commenting on my station in life, that was a low blow... and uncalled for.  I may have a "RTFM" attitude, as you put it, but that is because the solution is in the manual

Now that I have said my peace, I hope you will read the FAQ I posted above.  You may have the last word... I bow out now.

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#13 2004-10-21 23:00:04

xerxes2
Member
From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
Website

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

stop bitching now guys  big_smile

lpratt wrote:

I updated the latest udev via pacman -Syu and now my sound doesn't function anymore - this happens in both XFce and KDE I get the same error message when either loads.

this looks like Pacman overwrote your /etc/udev/permissions.d/udev.permissions

you can avoid this by putting that file as a "NoUpgrade" in /etc/pacman.conf
if you don't do that, it could happen again,
Pacman also saves your old file with the extension ".pacsave"

also look at my sigg,
just kidding   big_smile


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#14 2004-10-21 23:04:46

dcbdbis
Member
From: Aurora, Colorado
Registered: 2004-09-10
Posts: 224

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

I agree w/Sarah31.

I agree with the content of the FAQ, yet disagree with the tone and attitude of the FAQ.

If we are going to be successful in promoting Linux on the desktop, and/or in the SMB model, we as a Linux community must abandon this attitude.

You will not find a business owner or employee today that has the time to invest in reading tech manuals. They need quick and easy solutions.

I'll wholeheartedly agree.....it's frustrating...But it's real world, at least in the US business marketplace.

It's unfortunate, I agree...
It shouldn't be that way, I agree....

It is a business reality that we are all facing regardless of whether it's right....or wrong....whether we like it or not...

We need to do what my old USMC drill instructor taught us to do when preparing us for the jungles of Vietnam... "Observe closely, learn, adapt, adjust, and then overcome."

Those that did this when they went in country for the 1st time; stood a better chance of coming home to live again.

Those that did not... like two of my relatives..., wound up engraved on a granite slab in our nations capital.


I bow out now..........


Dave.....

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#15 2004-10-22 00:25:20

lpratt
Member
From: Upstate New York
Registered: 2004-09-06
Posts: 16

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

I too like an occational flame session, but in this case it would be counter to the principle of community support that first brought many of us to the linux os.

As for your notion that these forums are the wrong place to ask questions I put it to you that the Only Reason for these Forums to exist is for user support and as such they Are the correct place to try and find an answer to a problem. (as it says in the faq you posted the link to

find the project web page most closely associated with the hardware or software that is giving you difficulties

BTW I know how frustrating answering the SAME questions over and over can be - in the dos days of bbs's I ran a very popular bbs in Southern California for almost 10 years so I've answered my quota, but I always remembered that to the person asking the question it's new and important.

So let there be peace...:)

Lee

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#16 2004-11-08 07:58:12

aha
Member
Registered: 2004-10-17
Posts: 15

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

Let me put my feelings here as well (this is off-topic, this thread is old, but let it here than anywhere else) ....

Arch is one of the best linux distro I have tried (and I have tried many...) ... but Arch community (specially the most of the Arch Forum regulars) seem to be very rude...

This is the reason I have been reading this forum for a long time but never posted a msg before...

Guys.. you might be experts in Linux and everything else as well but it is not good to be rude ...

I know.. Arch is meant for relatively advanced users (not completely clueless n00b) but even an experienced person may need some help from forum sometime ....

Please be poilte ... if you dont want to help .. dont reply


~ Aha ~

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#17 2004-11-08 09:16:45

ghostwalker
Member
From: Tacoma, WA
Registered: 2004-07-28
Posts: 140

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

Are you a member of the group audio? If not gpasswd -a user audio as root. This is also a fix for cdrom support except it is group optical.


P4 2.8Ghz @ 2.8Ghz SL6WT
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512mb Mushkin Level II
160GB Maxtor HD
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Linux 2.6.x
Linux user 314187
ArchLinux

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#18 2004-11-09 21:24:02

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

make sure to modprobe snd-pcm-oss as well - it adds the oss emulated devices in /dev/sound/{dsp,mixer,whatever}

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#19 2004-11-09 23:08:44

paranoos
Member
From: thornhill.on.ca
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 442

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

why do people always bash phrakture for being rude? his response was not rude. i hate when people write back to him saying "i resent your accusations on my character" or some such.

as he often does, he gave a link to the wiki which explains and fixes the problem. the user comes back not having read the whole thing. "read the link i posted. you seem to be unable to follow links."

does "you seem to be unable to follow links" upset people for some reason? why? he's right, isn't he?

this is the first time i heard somebody summarize the arch community as being rude. i remember when everyone praised the arch community for being very helpful. i know i loved it when i started using arch, asking questions in the chat room, and then answering the same questions for somebody else just bit later. if you ask me, users have to get over themselves and realize that somebody is helping you, and you're not listening. i don't know how many times i've dealt with this before.

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#20 2004-11-11 20:15:30

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

panfr wrote:

Howdy, phrarcture, thanks for the tip but I had already tried it- it does not help at all, in fact the only thing it achieves is making the first hard reset with Arch possible. It is NOT a real audio device with a hardware synthesizer, but an onboard i865 soundchip (no hardware synthesizer). I also tried the recommendation of lowering the idle response time under KDE to 4-5 seconds, but it didn't help at all.
It's not a real problem for me, as at some time I will slot in my Echo Mia soundcard and the Pinnacle PCTV, but using Arch for the first time I try to LEARN one thing or two about Linux.
I will build a new 2.6.9 with ALSA as a module and dmix as soft mixer tomorrow, and let you know how it worked...

ah, ok I was not aware that your onboard sound did not have HW synthesis.  I really couldn't tell you where to look next, as I'm not a real sound guru, but you seem to be on the right track... let me know if you have any other questions.

And to paranoos - thanks man, I appretiate it.  I seem to get a bad rap alot of the time... heh

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#21 2004-11-11 22:49:20

sykotik
Member
Registered: 2004-06-15
Posts: 49

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

BROTHER!?

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#22 2004-11-11 23:05:19

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

sykotik wrote:

BROTHER!?

... sigh...

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#23 2004-11-11 23:09:22

sykotik
Member
Registered: 2004-06-15
Posts: 49

Re: Sound Doesn't work after Udev update

He's my real brother, he just doesn't like to admit it.

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