My first experience with Arch

duby2291 · 2009-05-22 01:50:23

I'll try to keep this sweet and simple since most anybody wont care anyways. I just figured other new users might find my expererience useful.

The arch cd.... Well its simple that's for sure. I've found that it doesnt really have the functionality that I've come to expect from an install cd. A VESA framebuffer for one, 640x480 is just painful. A text mode web browser isnt too much to ask for either. Links actually does have a real nice feature that allows it to work on a framebuffer in the console with some limited graphical capability using the -g option. This would have been incredibly useful for when I was installing to a software RAID which, by the way isnt documented on the disk... which leads into configuring a software RAID from the installer. mdadm works incredibly well, but support from the installer would be exceptionally nice. I gotta tell you the install cd really sucks.

Post install... Well, I had X, Gnome, and Compiz installed and configured to my liking in about 30 minutes. Absolutely exceptional. Pacman is is easily the most wonderful package manager I've ever used. I dont honestly think I'll ever use anything else ever again. Coming from a Gentoo background since 2004 I've found that install time is wonderful. And even applications --RUN-- faster. Which is totally opposite from what I would have expected.Coming from an environment where I compiled everything from source with architecture specific optimizations, to arch where everything is precompiled, Arch actually runs faster. Applications start faster, are more responsive, and even close faster. And then there is arches init.Could it be any faster? It boots to a fully installed Gnome with Compiz, in about 30 seconds after grub loads. Including post time it couldnt be any more then maybe 50 seconds. Compared to about maybe 3 minutes for Gentoo.

The kernel... I like the idea and implementation of hooks. and mkinitcpio is an exceptionally well thought out tool. It makes creating an initrd really easy and simple. However I'm of the opinion that the RAID modules should definately be integrated into the kernel image rather than built as modules. The reason is simple -autodetection- It's either that or the mdadm hook needs to be rewritten to include autodetection. And then there is fbsplash. A graphical startup would certainly be nice. Yes I'd consider myself a power user, but I'd still like to hide the scrolling text. If I need to see it I can always press f2.

Anyways I'm still learning, and my next project will be to build a custom kernel and a custom LiveCD using archiso with a graphical startup, and the text mode utilities that an install cd requires...... Please take this for what it is, Positive Critisism. If Arch can be made better then I'll be a very happy user. Thanks guys.

tomd123 · 2009-05-22 02:15:12

duby2291 wrote:

but I'd still like to hide the scrolling text

There's the reason why gentoo just didn't cut it

duby2291 · 2009-05-22 02:19:52

tomd123 wrote:

duby2291 wrote:
but I'd still like to hide the scrolling text
There's the reason why gentoo just didn't cut it

--jobs in portage 2.2 was the greatest invention they ever made.

ataraxia · 2009-05-22 03:07:58

VESA fb is available on the install CD - you need to add to the kernel line in GRUB to use it. I always set vga=791 during my installs.

The CD is sufficiently "live" that you can install software onto it for use during the install. Bring up the network and "pacman -Sy links" to get a browser.

tomk · 2009-05-22 06:06:32

duby2291 wrote:

I gotta tell you the install cd really sucks.

Post bug reports/feature requests as required. Saying "it sucks" here achieves precisely nothing.

duby2291 wrote:

However I'm of the opinion that the RAID modules should definately be integrated into the kernel image rather than built as modules. The reason is simple -autodetection- It's either that or the mdadm hook needs to be rewritten to include autodetection.

More feature requests.

duby2291 wrote:

A graphical startup would certainly be nice.

So add it yourself. Eye-candy like that will never be part of the Arch core install.

duby2291 · 2009-05-22 12:22:46

tomk wrote:

duby2291 wrote:
I gotta tell you the install cd really sucks.
Post bug reports/feature requests as required. Saying "it sucks" here achieves precisely nothing.

I've already searched and the bug reports have already been made. Theres no point in wasting time and bandwidth by duplicating effort that has already been done. On the other hand I certainly am allowed to express my opinion, and that --DOES-- accomplish something.

duby2291 wrote:
However I'm of the opinion that the RAID modules should definately be integrated into the kernel image rather than built as modules. The reason is simple -autodetection- It's either that or the mdadm hook needs to be rewritten to include autodetection.
More feature requests.

Again the bug report has already been made.

duby2291 wrote:
A graphical startup would certainly be nice.
So add it yourself. Eye-candy like that will never be part of the Arch core install.

As I've alreeady said that is going to be my next project. When it works I'll gladly post the iso on this forum for other folks who think the arch install cd sucks too....

madalu · 2009-05-22 13:02:18

duby2291 wrote:

The arch cd.... Well its simple that's for sure. I've found that it doesnt really have the functionality that I've come to expect from an install cd. A VESA framebuffer for one, 640x480 is just painful. A text mode web browser isnt too much to ask for either. Links actually does have a real nice feature that allows it to work on a framebuffer in the console with some limited graphical capability using the -g option. This would have been incredibly useful for when I was installing to a software RAID which, by the way isnt documented on the disk... which leads into configuring a software RAID from the installer. mdadm works incredibly well, but support from the installer would be exceptionally nice. I gotta tell you the install cd really sucks.

I'm a new arch user and I must respectfully disagree. I've never had an install cd that allowed me to connect so easily to a wireless network during the install (the driver was already present). At that point (if I hadn't already printed out the wiki instructions I needed), I could have installed w3m, elinks, lynx or any text browser to access the wiki. Also the installation instructions are available as a text file on the install cd.

The arch wiki is a wonderful resource and really an essential part of the install process. If you're installing software raid, I'd imagine you would familiarize yourself with the following page before the install process:

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ins … AID_or_LVM

I took installing arch linux as an opportunity to really learn a system from the bottom up. If I had wanted a user-friendly GUI install, I would have chosen a different distro.

You mention Arch's exceptional leanness and speed. Well, that's because Arch is first and foremost a command line distro --- you start with the command line (no GUI) and then build everything up from there. Even if the installer cd had a gui interface (which I hope never happens), then resulting install would still leave the user at a simple tty prompt after reboot. IMHO, it would be contradictory to have a fancy automated gui installer that leaves you with a bare-bones *nix system. Other distros have gui installers; but then they also have themed desktop environments, lots of default daemons, etc. (And I'm not sure why you got a 640 x 480 framebuffer, but I imagine you could change that at the grub prompt.)

Arch begins with the command line -- pure and simple -- and I certainly would not want that to change. A steeper learning curve is the price you pay for a fast system and customization. I think Arch should be called the "Do your homework distro" -- and, for me, that's a term of endearment.

Thanks to the arch developers for such a fantastic learning experience and the arch community for a wonderful wiki!

Last edited by madalu (2009-05-22 15:15:42)

EVRAMP · 2009-05-22 17:34:01

I like the simple installation Arch currently has, but I also see that some users are not comfortable with it.
Since I've known Archlinux I can't stand other distros, but if some windows user asks me for a good linux I rather recommand Chakra instead of "pure" Archlinux because of the installation process.
You should check www.chakra-project.org duby.
The result is same and the user is happy to see how it works like before he installs it.
But as I stated I prefer installation with more options rather than with a few nice pictures

Last edited by EVRAMP (2009-05-22 17:35:58)

tomk · 2009-05-22 18:59:16

duby2291 wrote:

tomk wrote:
duby2291 wrote:
I gotta tell you the install cd really sucks.
Post bug reports/feature requests as required. Saying "it sucks" here achieves precisely nothing.
I certainly am allowed to express my opinion, and that --DOES-- accomplish something.

By all means express your opinion, but how can you possibly think that saying "the install cd really sucks" accomplishes anything? I admire your stated intention to address your particular issues constructively, but using phrases like that just damages your credibility.

litemotiv · 2009-05-22 21:44:03

tomk wrote:

By all means express your opinion, but how can you possibly think that saying "the install cd really sucks" accomplishes anything? I admire your stated intention to address your particular issues constructively, but using phrases like that just damages your credibility.

you may be taking that single small line a little hard, the rest of his post is quite constructive and/or positive.

@duby2291: you might want to give Tuxonice a try too for the 'scrolling text' thing, it's a nifty hibernate/suspend framework which also supports text and fbsplash themes.

duby2291 · 2009-05-23 06:35:52

tomk wrote:

duby2291 wrote:
tomk wrote:
Post bug reports/feature requests as required. Saying "it sucks" here achieves precisely nothing.
I certainly am allowed to express my opinion, and that --DOES-- accomplish something.
By all means express your opinion, but how can you possibly think that saying "the install cd really sucks" accomplishes anything? I admire your stated intention to address your particular issues constructively, but using phrases like that just damages your credibility.

I understand. Thanks for allowing this. I thouight a little encouragement would help someone else who may heve needed it.

duby2291 · 2009-05-23 06:37:55

litemotiv wrote:

tomk wrote:
By all means express your opinion, but how can you possibly think that saying "the install cd really sucks" accomplishes anything? I admire your stated intention to address your particular issues constructively, but using phrases like that just damages your credibility.
you may be taking that single small line a little hard, the rest of his post is quite constructive and/or positive.
@duby2291: you might want to give Tuxonice a try too for the 'scrolling text' thing, it's a nifty hibernate/suspend framework which also supports text and fbsplash themes.

Thanks I'll check it out. Seems like a cool project that can help me out.

Arch Linux

#1 2009-05-22 01:50:23

My first experience with Arch

#2 2009-05-22 02:15:12

Re: My first experience with Arch

#3 2009-05-22 02:19:52

Re: My first experience with Arch

#4 2009-05-22 03:07:58

Re: My first experience with Arch

#5 2009-05-22 06:06:32

Re: My first experience with Arch

#6 2009-05-22 12:22:46

Re: My first experience with Arch

#7 2009-05-22 13:02:18

Re: My first experience with Arch

#8 2009-05-22 17:34:01

Re: My first experience with Arch

#9 2009-05-22 18:59:16

Re: My first experience with Arch

#10 2009-05-22 21:44:03

Re: My first experience with Arch

#11 2009-05-23 06:35:52

Re: My first experience with Arch

#12 2009-05-23 06:37:55

Re: My first experience with Arch

Board footer