What is Arch upkeep like?

karthik · 2009-06-08 23:15:30

Hello,

I'm an Ubuntu user with a proclivity for minimalism. Well, I've been using Crunchbang (Ubuntu minimal install + X + openbox) for a while now, but nevertheless, I'm used to the Ubuntu base.

Arch promises a fast, lightweight system, and I'm drawn like a moth to the idea. I like that I'll have to edit rc files by hand in Arch- runlevels, boot scripts and system options are a mess to set up or learn about in Ubuntu.

I installed Arch (Fluxbox, SLiM) a couple of years ago, but had to give it up after a week of usage because I didn't have enough time to set everything up. I do have the time now, and I intend to install Arch, but I had a few general questions about how it handles. (I've printed out the install guide and associated wiki pages.)

1. How often does Arch "break"? (Err, I should explain that!)
By "break" I mean having updates or installing software causing trouble. It's happened to me in every other distro I've tried (Debian and variants, Red hat (in 2001!) and Fedora, and a very brief, horrible skirmish with Slackware) at least a couple of times, so I've stopped asking if it happens and started asking how often it does. I'm okay with things breaking, just want to be prepared.

2. What is the general upkeep like? I intend to set up a lightweight (openbox, SLiM) desktop and some assorted software, then stop tinkering around with the setup and start getting work done. With this in mind, is Arch maintenance free, or close to it?

3. A couple of specific questions: I have a Broadcom (BCM4318) wireless card- will I need to mess around with fwcutter to get wireless up and running, or is there a better alternative? And finally, is there a package for SCIM in Arch?

I read a dozen or so threads about feedback on this forum, and narrowed down my queries to the above lot. Any advice is appreciated!

Last edited by karthik (2009-06-08 23:19:34)

graysky · 2009-06-08 23:22:40

1. I haven't broken Arch and I'm pretty green in Linux having run Debian for a month or two, then Ubuntu for the same period of time. I think as long as your back-up key system areas and maintain a list of your installed packages, you'll be fine.

My backup script:

#!/bin/bash

cd /data/backup
tar zcvfp arch-system.tar.gz /etc /boot /root /var/lib/pacman/local
tar zcvfp user1.tar.gz /home/user1
tar zcvfp user2.tar.gz /home/user2

2. Dunno what kind of maintenance you're referring to here..? Just keep the system up-to-date via pacman every now and then and you should be fine.

3. No idea/Don't use wireless. Have you checked out the network pages on the wiki? Perhaps look for wireless.

Last edited by graysky (2009-06-08 23:28:58)

lucke · 2009-06-08 23:31:44

It rarely breaks and if it does, it's easy enough to fix - unless you want to religiously ignore the news page.

Only updates can break or change something and usually it's upstream.

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wireless#BCM43XX
http://www.archlinux.org/packages/?q=scim

methuselah · 2009-06-09 01:03:36

If you use gnome/xfce4 then there is an app called 'Meld': http://www.archlinux.org/packages/?q=meld that is nice to use for merging your '.conf' files with the new '.conf.pacnew' files that come with certain package upgrades. Occasionally you might have to check the wiki or the forums after upgrading if something causes breakages.... but by the time you have it happen to you it's already usually become a [solved] topic from other people having the same issue.

It's good to update regularly and read through the forums to see if there are any problems with things that you have installed. You will see most problems posted in:

http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewforum.php?id=44
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewforum.php?id=23
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewforum.php?id=22

Last edited by methuselah (2009-06-09 01:07:07)

VoodooSteve · 2009-06-09 01:56:05

2. I've been using arch for about 3 months now and the only "break" I've experienced was when gnome was updated to 2.26 and xorg started to eat up all the cpu. Within 2 days, a fix was released though. Best advice is to check news/forum for upgrade issues before running pacman -Syu and that should keep breakage to a minimum.

Last edited by VoodooSteve (2009-06-09 01:57:00)

karthik · 2009-06-09 11:06:47

Thanks for the info, people.

From your collective opinions, it appears that as long as I'm careful before carrying out an update, things should be fine.

@graysky: I do an rsync with an external hard disk regularly, so I'm not afraid of losing my data. What bums me is the time I'll lose repairing the install when (say) I need to be doing an assignment in Tex for work.

@lucke: thanks for the wiki link to wireless cards.

esh · 2009-06-09 14:42:41

You do have to be quite careful about what you update -- always know what you need then think carefully. A brazen -Syu (update all) one night lead to my entire workstation project applications becoming unusable because of the infuriating Python 2.5-2.6 incompatibilities. Fortunately for all involved, "old" packages you've previously downloaded are in /var/cache/pacman/pkg, and you can just "pacman -U <file>" and it will happily install the old version. Crisis averted. I've not had pacman fall over on me yet.

graysky · 2009-06-09 20:12:19

@esh - interesting. Is it easy to have pacman NOT install a particular package? For example, I just did:

# pacman -Syu
:: Synchronizing package databases...
 core                      33.4K  355.4K/s 00:00:00 [##############################################] 100%
 extra                    375.8K  791.5K/s 00:00:00 [##############################################] 100%
 community                370.1K 1051.6K/s 00:00:00 [##############################################] 100%
:: Starting full system upgrade...
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...

Targets (12): icu-4.2-1  brltty-3.10-2  glib2-2.20.3-1  conky-1.7.1-1  dialog-1.1_20080819-2  
              libmysqlclient-5.1.35-1  libsasl-2.1.23-1  mkvtoolnix-2.9.5-1  openoffice-base-3.1.0-2  
              tcp_wrappers-7.6-10  portmap-6.0-4  sudo-1.7.1-2  

Total Download Size:    174.93 MB
Total Installed Size:   422.40 MB

Proceed with installation? [Y/n]

Let's say that for some reason, I didn't want it to update the openoffice-base package. How would I accomplish that? I read on the wiki about using 'IgnorePkg = name' in the /etc/pacman.conf but is there something I can do in the shell to do it?

lucke · 2009-06-09 20:15:49

You can use "pacman -Syu --ignore openoffice-base" - but if you want it to stick, you have to use IgnorePkg.

graysky · 2009-06-09 22:14:25

Cool, I've never ignored anything thinking that it's updated for a reason. I don't do anything special with my system though, just base workstation stuff.

Surgat_ · 2009-06-10 11:44:39

I usually update once or twice a day, and I don't ignore updates unless there is a new announcement on the news website. I only remember one or two updates that broke something in the last year and a half that I've been using Arch, so I don't think you'll have many problems.

Cheers!

stryder · 2009-06-10 11:55:46

karthik wrote:

What bums me is the time I'll lose repairing the install when (say) I need to be doing an assignment in Tex for work.

Disk space is cheap these days. Just have 2 arch installs in 2 partitions with common home partition. Update the system you are not using and use the updated system.

wonder · 2009-06-10 11:58:28

i've been using arch since 2006 and never managed to break it. but of course i've been in touch with all development (news,ml,forum)

lem · 2009-06-13 14:10:59

overall i'd say im happy with arch, except with its 'repository policy'
too much often packages would move from community to unsupported and from testing to extras and so on..
it is difficult for me to keep up with all these changes. since kde4 was moved to extra i was unable to perform a system upgrade.
(im using kde3mod) almost any package i tried to upgrade would show some conflict warning, or ask me to install packages that would
conflict with my kde3 ones. i really dislike that. i found no EASY way of upgrading the system safely.
apart from that so far so good, especially kdemod

Arch Linux

#1 2009-06-08 23:15:30

What is Arch upkeep like?

#2 2009-06-08 23:22:40

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#3 2009-06-08 23:31:44

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#4 2009-06-09 01:03:36

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#5 2009-06-09 01:56:05

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#6 2009-06-09 11:06:47

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#7 2009-06-09 14:42:41

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#8 2009-06-09 20:12:19

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#9 2009-06-09 20:15:49

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#10 2009-06-09 22:14:25

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#11 2009-06-10 11:44:39

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#12 2009-06-10 11:55:46

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#13 2009-06-10 11:58:28

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

#14 2009-06-13 14:10:59

Re: What is Arch upkeep like?

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