books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

unregistered · 2009-06-12 08:04:12

does anyone notice? what is the reason for that?
they tend to delve less deep into the guts of configuring from txt files, etc
example is running linux by oreilly, the 3rd edition has text about how to configure Xdefaults, xinitrc, etc but the 5th edition mainly focuses on kde and gnome although it has materials on xorg.conf as well

ArchArael · 2009-06-12 08:17:08

Probably they tend to go mainstream so they lower the technical level a little bit. Who wants to tinker has always man at disposal.

mianka · 2009-06-12 10:21:39

and O'Reilly

timetrap · 2009-06-12 10:34:33

Orly?

Anyway, most of the technical documentation is stored in wikis and blog posts.
What kind of book would you like to see? Linux in a Nutshell and Unix in a Nutshell have been the perennial favorite for those looking for a good technical reference.

Books, check 'em out.

Last edited by timetrap (2009-06-12 10:35:58)

ataraxia · 2009-06-12 13:29:10

Running Linux tends to become less technical as time goes by, too. (Unless you're an internals developer of some kind, in which case it's the opposite.)

Xyne · 2009-06-12 14:15:43

unregistered wrote:

books tend to be less technical as time goes by

fixed that for you

Have you ever looked at older books on mathematics and physics? They make many "modern" textbooks look like coloring books. I think there's a general trend to dumb everything down to make it more accessible to a wider audience. I think that approach is fundamentally flawed (just like the "everyone's a winner" approach to teaching which constantly lowers the threshold... the best example of which so far can be found here).

filam · 2009-06-12 15:58:54

Xyne wrote:

unregistered wrote:
books tend to be less technical as time goes by
fixed that for you

This theory doesn't just apply to scientific textbooks. I have often struggled to find books that can be used in conjunction with foriegn language acquisition. Most langauge instructors that I have met tend to prefer texts loaded with colorful distractions and a superficial explanation of grammar. The one major exception I have experienced was a German instructor named Herr Deutschmann, who was extremely eccentric.

edit: Spelling

Last edited by filam (2009-06-12 19:20:34)

Xyne · 2009-06-12 16:22:24

filam wrote:

a German instructor named Herr Deutschmann

With a name like that, it would seem that the male line of his family is destined to teach German.

As for the rest of your post, I suspect that in general it's a consequence of marketing and the fact that the childhood attraction to bright, shiny colors never fully abates. Add to that the superficiality with which many people approach learning and you suddenly find that you sell more when you prioritize presentation over content.

tcoffeep · 2009-06-12 18:14:22

I notice, now, when I try to read a technical book, that compared to everything else, it seems dull. Part of me hates the fact that everything has to be shiny in order for anyone to pay attention, but when it is, indeed, shiny, they don't teach you anything that you need to know, but instead, focus on things that don't matter much.

We need to find a medium where it can be interesting and fun to read, ( ie - humorous ), and at the same time technical and in-depth. We need to find that point where the shininess is not a distraction, but something that'll help you focus on a point that needs pointing out.

Unfortunately, people don't want to learn things in-depth anymore ( well, I mean, overall, the people who want pure technical are essentially a niche market, like linux gamers or old-school RPG gamers ), they want fluff knowledge so they can have a basic grasp, but most don't want any more than that.

That's the way I see it, anyways.

Lexion · 2009-06-12 18:35:38

@tcoffeep: I agree. They all say they don't have enough time and then go frag n00bs.

thayer · 2009-06-12 18:50:27

Linux Administration Handbook (2nd Edition) <-- Fantastic, no-frills reference

tcoffeep · 2009-06-12 18:54:41

Lexion wrote:

@tcoffeep: I agree. They all say they don't have enough time and then go frag n00bs.

Boom... headshot?

anrxc · 2009-06-12 20:45:16

thayer wrote:

Linux Administration Handbook (2nd Edition) <-- Fantastic, no-frills reference

I agree that this is a good book. Another good book (which is free) is "Rute users tutorial", it's been my favorite book for beginners for a long time, but experienced users can benefit from it too.

It's also an interesting fact that there is only one book that has a scientific approach to system administration (please prove me wrong).

generic_ · 2009-06-22 23:16:34

Well dumbed down and better explained are not the same. I read a book called The TCP/IP guide it goes more in depth than any of other book Ive seen. Going into packet structurer and practically explaining every bit and byte of every protocol. Its easier to understand but is still very technical and he uses many real world analogies alot. Im just saying if a book is dumbed down and not just better explained its the writers fault.

cyclotomic · 2009-06-23 03:03:21

Xyne wrote:

unregistered wrote:
books tend to be less technical as time goes by
fixed that for you

Have you ever looked at older books on mathematics and physics? They make many "modern" textbooks look like coloring books. I think there's a general trend to dumb everything down to make it more accessible to a wider audience. I think that approach is fundamentally flawed (just like the "everyone's a winner" approach to teaching which constantly lowers the threshold... the best example of which so far can be found here).

This is pretty much true, but if you look at older math books the authors sometimes completely leave out parts of proofs that take a long time to recreate on your own (I'm looking at you Big Rudin), at least most of the modern texts leave that kind of thing to the exercises. Although it is unsettling to read a book and then realize you didn't really learn anything from it because the author babied the reader the whole time.

Last edited by cyclotomic (2009-06-23 03:04:21)

dolby · 2009-06-23 07:12:54

As the users get less technical (which is not only bad) its logical that the books get less technical too.
As long as there are more technical books as well, its OK.

On a side note i remember a discussion thread on the Xorg mailing list where the developers literally made fun of the DIY distro users (Slackware,Gentoo,Arch).
I guess most people prefer others making decisions for themselves nowadays. Personally i feel very unconfortable when the ones making critical decisions are Canonical employees, some of which where Microsoft employees not too long ago.

Last edited by dolby (2009-06-23 07:13:26)

cyclotomic · 2009-06-23 17:16:25

dolby wrote:

As the users get less technical (which is not only bad) its logical that the books get less technical too.
As long as there are more technical books as well, its OK.
On a side note i remember a discussion thread on the Xorg mailing list where the developers literally made fun of the DIY distro users (Slackware,Gentoo,Arch).
I guess most people prefer others making decisions for themselves nowadays. Personally i feel very unconfortable when the ones making critical decisions are Canonical employees, some of which where Microsoft employees not too long ago.

That is just weird that they would make fun of people for something like that.

z0phi3l · 2009-06-23 18:31:24

tcoffeep wrote:

I notice, now, when I try to read a technical book, that compared to everything else, it seems dull. Part of me hates the fact that everything has to be shiny in order for anyone to pay attention, but when it is, indeed, shiny, they don't teach you anything that you need to know, but instead, focus on things that don't matter much.
We need to find a medium where it can be interesting and fun to read, ( ie - humorous ), and at the same time technical and in-depth. We need to find that point where the shininess is not a distraction, but something that'll help you focus on a point that needs pointing out.
Unfortunately, people don't want to learn things in-depth anymore ( well, I mean, overall, the people who want pure technical are essentially a niche market, like linux gamers or old-school RPG gamers ), they want fluff knowledge so they can have a basic grasp, but most don't want any more than that.
That's the way I see it, anyways.

Sounds like you are referring to the "For Dummies" series of books, shiny bits with decent technical info too

test1000 · 2009-06-23 18:51:42

cyclotomic wrote:

dolby wrote:
As the users get less technical (which is not only bad) its logical that the books get less technical too.
As long as there are more technical books as well, its OK.
On a side note i remember a discussion thread on the Xorg mailing list where the developers literally made fun of the DIY distro users (Slackware,Gentoo,Arch).
I guess most people prefer others making decisions for themselves nowadays. Personally i feel very unconfortable when the ones making critical decisions are Canonical employees, some of which where Microsoft employees not too long ago.
That is just weird that they would make fun of people for something like that.

Well, yeah... The only thing they are making fun of is the idea they have in their head about, atleast archlinux, as i can't believe anyone "Xorg hacker" technical wouldn't want to use Arch...

I mean.. I couldn't imagine using ubuntu.. would be a nightmare to fix and take me 10x the time it does in arch because i would also have to fix the abstraction of the abstraction instead of just fixing it where the standard docs tell me to fix it.. (a reason why i don't like rc.conf though )

Last edited by test1000 (2009-06-23 18:54:55)

tcoffeep · 2009-06-23 19:29:58

z0phi3l wrote:

tcoffeep wrote:
I notice, now, when I try to read a technical book, that compared to everything else, it seems dull. Part of me hates the fact that everything has to be shiny in order for anyone to pay attention, but when it is, indeed, shiny, they don't teach you anything that you need to know, but instead, focus on things that don't matter much.
We need to find a medium where it can be interesting and fun to read, ( ie - humorous ), and at the same time technical and in-depth. We need to find that point where the shininess is not a distraction, but something that'll help you focus on a point that needs pointing out.
Unfortunately, people don't want to learn things in-depth anymore ( well, I mean, overall, the people who want pure technical are essentially a niche market, like linux gamers or old-school RPG gamers ), they want fluff knowledge so they can have a basic grasp, but most don't want any more than that.
That's the way I see it, anyways.
Sounds like you are referring to the "For Dummies" series of books, shiny bits with decent technical info too

Given a lot of the books I've looked at within the last few months, it seems it's the de facto standard for many manuals.

theringmaster · 2009-06-24 18:40:39

http://poignantguide.net/ruby/

that's pretty humorous and informational

tcoffeep · 2009-06-24 18:59:15

theringmaster wrote:

http://poignantguide.net/ruby/
that's pretty humorous and informational

I actually enjoyed that when I read it, and I just noticed he added a new chapter or two.

theringmaster · 2009-06-24 19:07:22

tcoffeep wrote:

theringmaster wrote:
http://poignantguide.net/ruby/
that's pretty humorous and informational
I actually enjoyed that when I read it, and I just noticed he added a new chapter or two.

is the information still correct? languages evolve fast these days.

Blue Peppers · 2009-06-25 16:41:04

theringmaster wrote:

http://poignantguide.net/ruby/
that's pretty humorous and informational

I love whytheluckystiff. He's hillarious. The oldest linux book I posses, 1998, Linux: The Complete Reference, Second Editon, by Osborne, delves very deep into the actual commands and programs, but it dosn't go very far into configuring anything, apart from when that is the whole point of having a chapter on it. Having said that, Linux in a Nutshell, by O'Reilly, my only other Linux book, dosn't go into configuration at all, as that isn't it's purpourse. However, I have learnt much more from that book that I have from "The Complete Reference".

Acecero · 2009-06-29 06:31:56

thayer wrote:

Linux Administration Handbook (2nd Edition) <-- Fantastic, no-frills reference

Thanks for the resource, I'm reading it right now.

Arch Linux

#1 2009-06-12 08:04:12

books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#2 2009-06-12 08:17:08

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#3 2009-06-12 10:21:39

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#4 2009-06-12 10:34:33

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#5 2009-06-12 13:29:10

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#6 2009-06-12 14:15:43

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#7 2009-06-12 15:58:54

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#8 2009-06-12 16:22:24

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#9 2009-06-12 18:14:22

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#10 2009-06-12 18:35:38

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#11 2009-06-12 18:50:27

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#12 2009-06-12 18:54:41

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#13 2009-06-12 20:45:16

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#14 2009-06-22 23:16:34

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#15 2009-06-23 03:03:21

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#16 2009-06-23 07:12:54

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#17 2009-06-23 17:16:25

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#18 2009-06-23 18:31:24

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#19 2009-06-23 18:51:42

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#20 2009-06-23 19:29:58

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#21 2009-06-24 18:40:39

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#22 2009-06-24 18:59:15

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#23 2009-06-24 19:07:22

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#24 2009-06-25 16:41:04

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

#25 2009-06-29 06:31:56

Re: books on linux tend to be less technical as time goes by

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