learn freebsd or linux :/

mohaagh.02 · 2009-07-02 03:22:45

hello everybody
first i would like to say that i have been a archlinux user for a couple of month and i think it's the best linux distribution out there . good work guys
these days i am considering to install freebsd . as far i have read on the Internet it's a very robust o.s very well documented (see the documentation on their site ) . i want to learn operating system architecture in general (how an o.s works internally , i am a student ) . all linux distribution are just a lot of separated software just putted together to make an o.s witch will make learning it harder so i would save a lot of time and just install freebsd . what do you think guys ? and what do you think about freebsd in general ?

Square · 2009-07-02 03:31:27

I don't know much about the BSDs, but it sounds like you should install some virtualization software (i.e. Virtualbox). Then, you can test out anything and everything without wiping your hard drive - and more importantly, stick with the best linux distro ever.

lifeafter2am · 2009-07-02 03:31:40

I think you should learn both. And I think if you really want to learn about the internals of systems you need to install Linux from Scratch or Gentoo Linux, as they will not hold your hand through the install process.

Personally I like NetBSD, but any BSD would be good to learn.

mohaagh.02 · 2009-07-02 14:10:03

thanks for replying . i love the idea that freebsd is as o.s wich is developped together ; there is a base system and the ports on top of it ...i will invest some time in it . let's see what the *bsd can do

olovram · 2009-07-02 19:05:37

You could also try Haiku, it is
very compact

mohaagh.02 · 2009-07-03 01:24:00

Haiku !! never heart about him . hmm interesting

Ranguvar · 2009-07-03 02:09:31

If you look at operating systems in "families", Haiku hails from another family than the Unices (UNIX, Minix, Linux, BSD) -- BeOS. It's actually pretty cool, and nice to see a _good_ OS that has a different philosophy than the Unix one, although I still prefer Unix The only other OS that I would say is _good_ and _different_ would probably be the Amiga's OS.

crouse · 2009-07-03 02:25:04

Personally, I see no reason to go further than right where I'm at. I have the luxury of using many versions of Unix/Linux, from Tru64 to RHEL, I've dabbled with the bsd's, and always found them lacking, especially when I compare them to Arch (although TBH, almost everything is lacking when i compare it to Arch).

Most times applications much older than what we have with Arch.

One of the "selling" points of the BSD families is having a "core" system....hmm got it with Arch.
Another is "manual system configuration"........hmmm Arch has this in spades, and all in one place
"BSD's have emulation support"... well, that USED to be a selling point, we have virtualbox, and xen, and it runs most anything...
"Generally, BSD systems boot and reboot faster than Linux" ....... probably not faster than my arch system now....
"In comparison to BSD, most Linux distributions are overbloated" --- people who say this haven't seen Arch....

IMHO, man, you've already found the BEST....... But, by all means, knock yourself out and see for yourself lol.

Trent · 2009-07-03 02:50:16

I would like to clarify something. If you're considering learning about operating system architecture on the kernel level, there isn't much difference between Linux and BSD. Linux becomes more fragmented as you go up and away from the kernel, but you don't need to worry about that much -- the Linux kernel is complicated enough to keep you busy for years without worrying about those other things.

Now this depends on what you mean when you say you want to learn about how OSes work internally. Init scripts, shells, loggers, schedulers, etc. are arguably part of the operating system as well, and if you want to learn about those, that's a different matter. For starters, either way, you might want to try Minix 3 which is meant as more of a learning tool, at the expense of everyday usability.

Ranguvar · 2009-07-04 05:20:26

Trent wrote:

If you're considering learning about operating system architecture on the kernel level, there isn't much difference between Linux and BSD.

I would have to disagree.

droog · 2009-07-04 05:30:52

lifeafter2am wrote:

I think if you really want to learn about the internals of systems you need to install Linux from Scratch

This is your best bet, if you take your time installing and don't copy and paste what the guide says to do and actually want to learn, run lfs for a couple months. I did this for awhile in 2005 but ended up compiling pacman on it and basically turned it into arch then just reinstalled arch. I learned alot though.

Last edited by droog (2009-07-04 05:31:30)

Trent · 2009-07-04 14:32:32

Ranguvar wrote:

Trent wrote:
If you're considering learning about operating system architecture on the kernel level, there isn't much difference between Linux and BSD.
I would have to disagree.

Perhaps I phrased that poorly. Yes, there are some quite major differences, but primarily when you speak of Linux being "fragmented", you're referring to userland utilities and things above the kernel level. All I was trying to say is that if you are focusing mainly on the kernel, there's little benefit to learning BSD over Linux because the "fragmented" argument doesn't hold on that level to the extent it does in user-land.

In retrospect, I think I was needlessly confusing the issue. Feel free to disregard this and the previous post

mohaagh.02 · 2009-07-05 01:40:52

hi again , i was considering LFS at first but it is all about compling a lot of software . i have a found a lot of documentation about the Linux kernel so i think i will invest in it but i well keep my eye on freebsd because the concept of a base system just rocks : all the code is put under the same revision system so you can actually see how different part of the system interact with each other . god if we can have that on linux !!! . after a lot of thinks i decided to use as always Archlinux my favorite distro ( we have got the last software , the linux kernel is full of innovation , and pacman of course ) . but i must confess : i hate this fragmented nature about linux i know that diversity is good and it is one of the strong part about using a linux system that 's it nobody can control ... but it's somehow the very cause of it's weakness (makes it harder to develop application for Linux ). sorry i know that 's out the subject but i had to say it . thanks for all your reply

u_no_hu · 2009-07-05 03:42:53

@mohaagh.02
If you are going to dig deeper into code level, then i would say openbsd will be better because it will have much less cruft (much younger compared to other bsds) than other systems and the code is much clearer and simple.

Ranguvar · 2009-07-06 08:36:36

I agree with u_no_hu, and also recommend NetBSD for the same purpose. It's older than OpenBSD, but also focuses very much on code-correctness, stability, simplicity, and where OpenBSD focuses on security NetBSD focuses on supporting a ridiculous number of architectures, which means their system is quite well thought-out to do that. Of course, NetBSD is also very secure, and OpenBSD supports many arches.

About the fragmentation, you are correct. It's the weakness and strength of GNU/Linux. Personally I think we have it right, because fragmentation can be mostly overcome with hard work and growing adoption of GNU/Linux, whereas being monolithic will hurt you more as you become bigger. I don't really want to debate GNU/Linux vs. BSD here though, so no more off-topic from me

broch · 2009-07-06 17:27:53

I was using BSD (Free, then Net and Open) since 94'. I would say that there is not much "cruft" difference between BSDs whatever that is.

FreeBSD is general purpose server great for web, I was using it also as mail server (cyrus/Post/stuff), Net can be installed on some weird hardware and Open is a great example for secure OS (but user knowledge is required),

then you have experimental Dragonfly BSD is some respect ahead on much popular OSes

There are also some desktop BSD.

All depends what do you need.
if you want to learn linux or BSD, learn both. Which BSD you choose is up to you.

Allamgir · 2009-07-19 14:59:50

Well, the FreeBSD handbook is over 1200 pages, which makes the Arch Beginners Guide look like Curious George. That scared me away from the BSDs, but if you're up to it, go for it!

broch · 2009-07-19 19:38:09

Allamgir wrote:

Well, the FreeBSD handbook is over 1200 pages, which makes the Arch Beginners Guide look like Curious George. That scared me away from the BSDs, but if you're up to it, go for it!

this is the most bizarre reason I have ever heard. So you prefer to less information = more problems over clean hadnbook that explains everythig in detail, and you can always refer to if needed?

cactus · 2009-07-19 20:18:05

Allamgir wrote:

Well, the FreeBSD handbook is over 1200 pages, which makes the Arch Beginners Guide look like Curious George. That scared me away from the BSDs, but if you're up to it, go for it!

sand_man · 2009-07-20 06:50:01

cactus wrote:

Allamgir wrote:
Well, the FreeBSD handbook is over 1200 pages, which makes the Arch Beginners Guide look like Curious George. That scared me away from the BSDs, but if you're up to it, go for it!
http://en.wikivisual.com/images/7/73/CuriousGeorge.png

LOL
I was going to ask but I didn't need to!

Allamgir · 2009-07-20 19:14:57

Lol

what I mean is that I don't want to spend my life reading that much documentation just to get a single OS up and running. Maybe I'm misunderstanding; is the freebsd handbook more like a follow step by step guide to get freeBSD installed and configured, or is it more like a reference guide? (sorry I haven't looked into it more myself)

Llama · 2009-07-21 10:40:39

One curious difference between Linux and FreeBSD: the latter is supported by nicer books. FreeBSD Unleashed by Brian Tiemann, for instance. Basically, you start with this one book and end up very soon with a working system. As simple as that.

Arch Linux

#1 2009-07-02 03:22:45

learn freebsd or linux :/

#2 2009-07-02 03:31:27

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#3 2009-07-02 03:31:40

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#4 2009-07-02 14:10:03

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#5 2009-07-02 19:05:37

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#6 2009-07-03 01:24:00

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#7 2009-07-03 02:09:31

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#8 2009-07-03 02:25:04

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#9 2009-07-03 02:50:16

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#10 2009-07-04 05:20:26

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#11 2009-07-04 05:30:52

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#12 2009-07-04 14:32:32

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#13 2009-07-05 01:40:52

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#14 2009-07-05 03:42:53

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#15 2009-07-06 08:36:36

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#16 2009-07-06 17:27:53

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#17 2009-07-19 14:59:50

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#18 2009-07-19 19:38:09

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#19 2009-07-19 20:18:05

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#20 2009-07-20 06:50:01

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#21 2009-07-20 19:14:57

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

#22 2009-07-21 10:40:39

Re: learn freebsd or linux :/

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