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#1 2004-12-29 19:28:36

HoYer
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Registered: 2004-12-29
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Real newb question

Well, i'm glad you guys made a newbie corner, cause im not so expirienced in linux OS's. I just installed ArchLinux (i686) on my old labtop(300 Mhz, 64 mb RAM), and i really dont know how to get it "started". I want to know if I can open it as i used to open windows, with some kind of graphics instead of that black/blue screen all the time. I have also noticed that in Firefox download it says "Linux i686", so that must mean, that I can open a webbrowser somehow... All it says when it start up and i log in using root is "[root@(my username) root]#". And all i have ever used before is Windows...
I would be happy to get a answer ASAP.


Nikolaj Høyer

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#2 2004-12-29 19:37:57

cactus
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Re: Real newb question

hmm...
where to start...

Ok. Since you said you were strictly a windows user, I will take some baby steps and describe a few things as simply as I can.

What you have installed is the base system, most likely. You need to install software that handles the graphics rendering, and for controlling the desktop.

In Arch, software installation is handled by a command line utility called pacman. This tool handles installation of software, but not configuration. Software installed on Arch must be hand configured. This means editing text files.

This distribution is not really geared towards people without at least a little Linux experience. I would rather you have a good experience with Linux, then have you "cut your teeth" on a fairly advanced Linux distribution.
There are some friendlier ones out there if you are interested.
Mandrake Linux:  http://www.mandrakelinux.com/
Fedora Linux: http://fedora.redhat.com/
Suse Linux: http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/

For a good description of the relative merits of each distribution, and some reviews, I recommend going to distrowatch.com ( http://distrowatch.com/ ). Especially here: http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

If, however, you decide to stick it out, it will not be an easy learn. Arch is tough for the inexperienced, but you will learn alot, and likely learn it quickly.

good luck to you either way.  8)


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#3 2004-12-29 19:51:04

xerxes2
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From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
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Re: Real newb question

if you read cactus' post and still want to fix arch, here are the first steps,

add a user to the users, audio and optical groups,

# adduser

follow this wiki,
wiki->howto->install->desktop arch

and for your network this one
wiki->howto->network..->static ip and dhcp

and also stay away from mega desktops, i suggest you use openbox,

good luck  big_smile


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#4 2004-12-29 21:09:27

HoYer
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Registered: 2004-12-29
Posts: 15
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Re: Real newb question

Thank you very much for replying so fast. The actually reason, that i choose ArchLinux was that it was i686. And on the firefox dl page it only said i686, not i386. Does it really matter at all, or can i just download a i386 Linux?
I am not totally lost in Linux, I learn more every sec I am sitting with Arch. After all... I am a computer geek  big_smile


Nikolaj Høyer

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#5 2004-12-29 21:18:54

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
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Re: Real newb question

i386 is compatible with more processors than i686.
i686 is newer..

i386 --> i486 --> i586 --> i686

i386 is compatible with everything above it.
The newer stuff is to the right, the progression is the advancement of cpu design.
For instance i386 provides less functionality in the cpu for software, so it is a bit slower (most people hardly notice the difference) than i586 for instance. It still works fine.
You cannot go the other way though. If your cpu is old and only supports i386 instructions, and you try running i686 compiled software on it, it will bork. It looks for cpu registers and tries to call instructions that are not there. bonk!


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#6 2004-12-29 21:21:45

STiAT
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From: Vienna, Austria
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 603

Re: Real newb question

Of course you can. Compiled for i686 does just mean that the specific project (program binary) is compiled for a special architecture (ie i686). This means, the Program is optimized for i686, and will most likely not run on older systems (on newer ones of course.. ie if it was i586).

Actually, steps to get a graphical desktop running are not too hard, by following the instructions in the WIKI (desktop arch).

You should give it a try. Even though, of course you also can use Mandrake, Fedora, MEPIS Ubunto or CCux if you like. They are much more "user friendly".

If you'd like to give it a try, getting ARCH running...
pacman -Syu kde
xorgcfg --textmode

edit your /etc/rc.conf
in the line DEMONS=(syslog-ng hotplug !pcmcia network netfs crond)
add
kdm
DEMONS=(syslog-ng hotplug !pcmcia network netfs crond kdm)

reboot or type "kdm" to start the kdm daemon.

That's all i've actually done. Note that this is just for installing KDE and using the K Desktop Environment. This won't help you if you want to run GNOME (which a lot of users will prefer, but it's most likely about what the user likes better, since i'd say both, GNOME and KDE have their pros and contras).

STi


Ability is nothing without opportunity.

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#7 2004-12-29 21:22:51

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: Real newb question

Personally I tink if you feel okay about forging ahead then I don't see why you should not. Go through the documentation on the wiki and search the mail list archive or this forum. Chances are many of your questions came up before.

When you do post be very clear what is wrong, with exact error messages if possible., and what you wish to do or were doing at this time. The more detail you can give us (even if you don't know what it means or think it may not help) will help.

One warning though ..... try to become self reliant as possible as soon as possible.  Many oldtimers will get really annoyed if you constantly need to be lead by the hand everywhere. Don't be demanding or whiny you will get slapped for it or people will just not answer. Be patient it is not necessarily the end of the world.

Remember the forum search functions and google.com/linux if you are ever stuck and need an answer but no one is around. People will get angry if you ask old questions again.

Remember as well that some of may not tell you to RTFM directly but we will point you to the documentation that will give yoyu the answers. Docs are tough to learn from at first but you will learn from them.

i could go on but won't

good luck.


AKA uknowme

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#8 2004-12-29 21:29:18

STiAT
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From: Vienna, Austria
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 603

Re: Real newb question

Oh c'mon... give him a chance to learn, he is new to Linux.

Give him an appropriate answer, tell him how to "find" the answers faster and better in future, and he will of course...

We all started as he did, it's may just a longer time ago...

STi


Ability is nothing without opportunity.

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#9 2004-12-30 05:25:04

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: Real newb question

STiAT wrote:

Oh c'mon... give him a chance to learn, he is new to Linux.

Give him an appropriate answer, tell him how to "find" the answers faster and better in future, and he will of course...

We all started as he did, it's may just a longer time ago...

STi

huh?

I was explaining the facts. Whether one uses arch or mandrake my post is relevant. If you actually read it i was saying that he COULD use arch IF he feels comfortable.

I told him what to do to get going. If you had read other people's posts they SUGGESTED  the WIKI as well. I just added doing a FORUM SEARCH and MAIL LIST SEARCH.

I explained that he is best to learn self reliance as soon as possible and that is a fact. Eventually people will get hard on you if you copntinually are asking for help and not providing it. How the f**k would i know that? I have been there and done that. I had my clingy phase.

But of course if you think I am wrong and he should just be lead everywhere by his hand then by all means you can do it. Myself and others will not.

Harsh sounding posts I know but why should i beat around the bush? You know as well as I that the sooner that one become self reliant the better it is for that person. If i really didn't give a crap about newbies or any other user I would not post here.


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#10 2004-12-30 05:54:05

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
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Posts: 4,615
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Re: Real newb question

trial by flame.
lol

HoYer, meet our resident polar bear.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#11 2004-12-30 09:52:28

HoYer
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Registered: 2004-12-29
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Re: Real newb question

Now i've got Ubuntu, and it seems a lot more user-friendly. Thanks for the support.


Nikolaj Høyer

Get Firefox ~ Rediscover the web
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#12 2004-12-30 18:19:53

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: Real newb question

Good Luck if youever want to actually learn a bit more come back to arch. You should have no troubles .... regardless of what these people tell you.


AKA uknowme

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#13 2004-12-30 18:24:57

HoYer
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Registered: 2004-12-29
Posts: 15
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Re: Real newb question

sarah31 wrote:

Good Luck if youever want to actually learn a bit more come back to arch. You should have no troubles .... regardless of what these people tell you.

I am working on it... When I got Ubuntu to work fine, I got on to ARCH again. Now I think I got "basic" expirience with Linux, and now I know how to log out, and how to shut down  8)  I will head over to the wiki right away.


Nikolaj Høyer

Get Firefox ~ Rediscover the web
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#14 2004-12-30 18:31:30

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: Real newb question

another thing you can do is look through config files to see how some things are handled and try and do what you can through a terminal. A "more user friendly" distro allows you to play around alot since the system should be better able to recover from mistakes than it would on a more manual system like arch.

If you are a geek the user friendly distros will probably eventually bore you and you will seek more of a challenge like arch or one of the many source distros.


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#15 2004-12-30 18:36:36

HoYer
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Registered: 2004-12-29
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Re: Real newb question

Yes  big_smile  i am indeed a geek. But can you please tell me if arch would run proberbly on an old Compac armada with 300Mhz and 64mb ram. I'm asking because Ubuntu was really laggy - and when I used to run Win98 it wasn't that laggy...


Nikolaj Høyer

Get Firefox ~ Rediscover the web
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#16 2004-12-30 18:41:24

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
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Posts: 2,975
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Re: Real newb question

yes it should as long as the chip is at least a PII or pentium pro. I don't know what desktop environment or WM Ubuntu uses but you could try using something like fluxbox or XFCE4 which are far smaller than using something like KDE or gnome.  Just keep in mind by lighter i mean less feature rich. But depending on your needs you may not need all the extra fluff.


AKA uknowme

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#17 2004-12-30 18:45:11

HoYer
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Registered: 2004-12-29
Posts: 15
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Re: Real newb question

My Ubundu was using GNOME, and maybe thats the course then. My comp is a Pentium 2, so that should be just fine. I dont need all those fancy features, but I still want a good looking system(that wont lag).


Nikolaj Høyer

Get Firefox ~ Rediscover the web
www.getfirefox.com

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#18 2004-12-30 18:55:00

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: Real newb question

try xfce4 then


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#19 2004-12-30 19:01:04

xerxes2
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From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
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Re: Real newb question

xerxes2 wrote:

and also stay away from mega desktops, i suggest you use openbox,


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#20 2004-12-30 19:09:08

HoYer
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Registered: 2004-12-29
Posts: 15
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Re: Real newb question

xerxes2 wrote:

and also stay away from mega desktops, i suggest you use openbox,

What do you mean? is xfce4 a "mega desktop"? And why should I use "openbox"?


Nikolaj Høyer

Get Firefox ~ Rediscover the web
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#21 2004-12-30 19:13:22

xerxes2
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From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
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Re: Real newb question

I just installed ArchLinux (i686) on my old labtop(300 Mhz, 64 mb RAM)

on this kind of hardware you should run the lightest desktop there is and that's openbox, gnome and kde is not an option, xfce will work ok but openbox would be faster,

Edit: ask mrgreen if you don't believe me,  big_smile


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#22 2004-12-30 19:20:57

HoYer
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Registered: 2004-12-29
Posts: 15
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Re: Real newb question

ok, but can you please tell me what i'm supposed to do here, i'm a bit lost...
the wiki says:

1. Load the device module

Add your eth0 module to the modules array in /etc/rc.conf , eg tg3

MODULES=(!usbserial tg3 snd-cmipci)

Am I just supposed to write that MODULES... text into nano?(my /etc/rc.conf file are empty when I open in nano)


Nikolaj Høyer

Get Firefox ~ Rediscover the web
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#23 2004-12-30 19:23:56

xerxes2
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From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
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Re: Real newb question

you must have an /etc/rc.conf file!!!

when you find it you follow the wiki and put your eth0 an sound modules in the modules array,


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#24 2004-12-30 19:28:24

HoYer
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Registered: 2004-12-29
Posts: 15
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Re: Real newb question

yeah, now I found it  tongue 
but I still don't know, if i'm just supposed to write "MODULES=(!usbserial tg3 snd-cmipci)" instead of the old MODULES line...


Nikolaj Høyer

Get Firefox ~ Rediscover the web
www.getfirefox.com

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#25 2004-12-30 19:31:50

xerxes2
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From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
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Re: Real newb question

tg3 and snd-cmipci are just examples, you should use your modules in there!


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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