Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

lilsirecho · 2009-08-05 19:03:38

Upgraded via pacman to kde4.3 via the new module system but did use Syuf to force install.

Install resulted in no access to pacman from root since the konsole is not available from the desktop as was normal with kde4.2.

I assume the force mode caused the problem with konsole, mebbe.

The desktop has transparent icons but no access to make pacman entries.

What procedure will enable pacman to be accessed?

Then, how to repair the install of kde4.3?

EDIT: Also no dolphin available!

Last edited by lilsirecho (2009-08-06 16:55:07)

Pierre · 2009-08-05 20:01:30

Why does nobody read? Format your hard drive and reinstall Arch; and if its just to make you remember not to blindly use -f on conflicts next time.

lilsirecho · 2009-08-05 21:06:08

First advice in wiki for archlinux is to use ...Pacman -Syu ... to upgrade from the initial base install...nicht vahr?

Since such is already a given method of upgrade and supposedly SAFE, it follows directly that no serious system problems will result(assuming any such problems imminent will be issued with a PRIMARY WARNING before running the upgrade)

After six years of archlinux, I seem to have flubbed without warning but am wondering what will occur when a noobie performs his first ...pacman -Syu.. and then installs kde4.3 assuming he will be treated the same as the first -Syu.

I do not expect that the news article will be included in the -Syu intro since that is only logical and most things aren't a serious impact if the procedure isn't kosher.

In this case, I find the pacman -Syu to be remiss in not advising the user among the voluminous data entries with a big PRIMARY WARNING.

The listing in arch home for new upgrades had no reference to KDE4.3 by the by and it certainly isn't appearing in a second HDD when ..pacman -Syu is entered.

Therefore, it seems that there is more to this than meets the eye besides not reading the news item. The missing warnings make it doubly suspect since the consequences of forcing are not outlined either. It is a major oversight!!!

This is not a "bitch" post but an honest appraisal of the present install via pacman kde4.3.

Obviously, the expectation as outlined in the news item was that some installs would have conflicts....therefore such information and its handling must be included as a WARNING in the pacman download in such a manner that it must be acknowledged or no download proceeds.

I hereby state for all users that using ...pacman -Syuf on the KDE4.3 download can destroy your arch system which is not a described consequence in the news item about KDE4.3!!!!

Logically, if the Download causes conflicts (assumed that the writer knows the conflicts will occur) why would one need to file a bug report if they already know the problem exists?

The best advice I can give is to stand aside for a time until things are straightened out.

I would assume that ...pacman -Syu... will have to have many ignores in order to avoid KDE4.3...............Either that or answer no to all changes...........

I say this because you don't know whether you will have conflicts until you try to install...therein should be the WARNING..............do not use -Syuf.....causes loss of arch system via pacman.

EDIT: Perhaps Linus Torvalds is right about Kde4 which he avoided.

Last edited by lilsirecho (2009-08-05 21:14:46)

lilsirecho · 2009-08-05 21:20:16

How to find a terminal in arch Kde4.3 system?

tdy · 2009-08-05 21:21:35

lilsirecho wrote:

Logically, if the Download causes conflicts (assumed that the writer knows the conflicts will occur) why would one need to file a bug report if they already know the problem exists?

This is kind of common sense, but apparently it needs to be spelled out.... Just because the devs know that there might be conflicts does not mean that they have the manpower/time to test for every possible conflict. You file a bug reports to inform them of the specific conflict(s) that they've overlooked.. really, this applies to all bugs in general, not just file conflicts.

lilsirecho wrote:

I say this because you don't know whether you will have conflicts until you try to install...therein should be the WARNING..............do not use -Syuf.....causes loss of arch system via pacman.

You mean this?

man pacman wrote:

This option should be used with care, ideally not at all.

... or maybe this?

Sticky: THINK..AND READ BEFORE UPGRADING wrote:

Use the -f switch sparingly, if you know exactly what you are doing.
Forcing packages can potentially cause varying degrees of breakage. There are times when it is perfectly safe, and is even recommended, for a single package, (not for an entire system upgrade!) Check the Arch home page for Latest News, to see if an -f option is advised for a package upgrade issue. Remember that pacman -Syuf will force every available package upgrade, potentially creating system-wide breakage, and is therefore to be avoided.

Arch was not designed for people who don't read man pages, forum stickies, and news announcements.

Last edited by tdy (2009-08-05 21:36:29)

lilsirecho · 2009-08-05 21:49:32

I appreciate your pointing out the references in man pacman and the specious statements about using the force luke.

However, in this case it isn't a full system upgrade since by the very items listed it applies to kde4.3 upgrade from kde4.2 and that, whereas it is a large package, it is only one package (except in this case, many modules versus the previous install of kde4.2).

I consider a single element such as avidemux, vlc, kde or any other program , as not
a full-system upgrade but merely a new package for a present program already installed.

In the present Kde4.3 download, much more was involved than just a package or packages in the Kde4.3 portion of the upgrade. There were other packages included in the upgrade and they were loaded with -Syuf.

There was no WARNING about the Kde4.3 portion which has very different install procedure included (which says a WARNING is also possible and desirable since this is a special install/uninstall). I maintain a download with both an uninstall and an install option be outlawed as per the Kde4.3 upgrade procedure.

I admit to using the Syuf command which I have used for six years without ruination except for this instance.

I feel that this time (no Kde4.3 listed in HOME upgrades) I have used Syuf for the last time and probably will file numerous bug reports as recommended by the news item. These might reach four or five hundred!!!I have had to use Syuf very often in those six years.

Bug reports often are the result of mirrors not up to date and download errors via the internet and as such are a big pain.

Such may be the case in the future............

As for this problem..........

I would appreciate help and not castigation.....

Wherein can I find a terminal in Kde4.3?

lilsirecho · 2009-08-06 02:21:27

Analyzing my situation, it seems quite possible I made an oops with the keyboard entry.

Since keys s, d, and f are adjacent, I may have entered Syudf instead of Syuf which would probably cause havoc with the rest of the packages downloaded at the time.

This would explain the loss of desktop items including dolphin, konsole terminal and kwrite.

I often catch myself typing incorrectly with thick fingers but no notice of its occurence during the download, perhaps unfortunately.

Only conjecture but plausible.

Still hopeful for a terminal...........

gallow · 2009-08-06 03:04:11

Does .bash_history show whether it was Syudf or Syuf ?

lilsirecho · 2009-08-06 03:27:49

Cannot find bash history....probably lost...........

lilsirecho · 2009-08-08 02:25:56

An interesting aspect of this occurence was revealed this day when I performed an upgrade on my backup HDD.

The first item in the upgrade was directed by the arch system to upgrade pacman first.

The requirement for the pacman upgrade was not included in the upgrade performed on the HDD which removed the konsole terminal. It may be the reason for the loss of pacman and a viable terminal to make use of it.

The download performed today Aug 7, on the backup HDD had the pacman upgrade performed firstly.

The downloads did not install with numerous references to packages already installed.

I am advised by the arch news item to file a bug report but the size of this download is huge and I have no idea what data is pertinent for inclusion in a bug report of this magnitude.

Dutifully, I comply with the advice.

kensai · 2009-08-08 02:46:33

heh, some of us are impatience and just -syuf, I did that, but in my case everything worked fine. Sorry.

Allan · 2009-08-08 03:12:51

kensai wrote:

heh, some of us are stupid and just -syuf, I did that, but in my case everything worked fine. Sorry.

There... fixed that for you. Never do an -Syuf. Just -Sf a single package if necessary. And know why you are overwriting files...

lilsirecho · 2009-08-08 03:14:47

Further info indicates that the kdeedu package was not ignored but generated many,many error messages.

It seems that the kde4-meta does not recognize --ignore entries in pacman.

Filed bug report as advised by arch news item #15848.

Would also advise adding hal to the install requirements for rc.conf in the install CD.USB/FTP or whatever to allow the keybd and mouse to enable at log-in (regardless of the users options). If the user desires, he can remove same. Those who need it will have keybd and mouse at log-in.

Else, start the CD install again, or if you know how, chroot and change the rc.conf.

If no cd or usb, then re-install with FTP and be sure to include hal in the rc.conf file.

What a messy procedure!!!

Arch Linux

#1 2009-08-05 19:03:38

Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#2 2009-08-05 20:01:30

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#3 2009-08-05 21:06:08

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#4 2009-08-05 21:20:16

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#5 2009-08-05 21:21:35

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#6 2009-08-05 21:49:32

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#7 2009-08-06 02:21:27

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#8 2009-08-06 03:04:11

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#9 2009-08-06 03:27:49

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#10 2009-08-08 02:25:56

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#11 2009-08-08 02:46:33

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#12 2009-08-08 03:12:51

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

#13 2009-08-08 03:14:47

Re: Pacman upgrade removed konsole desktop(re-installed)

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