Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

oskarn · 2009-09-12 20:25:06

Let me just hand you some background information:

My current workstation consist of a Thinkpad T61p, Archlinux, a tiling window manager and a bunch of terminal applications. I much prefer the shell to any graphical interface. Tried KDE, did not like it. Tried GNOME, did not like it.

And here comes the weird part. I am very inclined to buy a Mac. I have used OS X on some occasions, and I liked it. Now my question here is really if there are any one else like me who prefers a linux evironment like mine, and still could not live without their iMac, for example.

I guess I need to find like-minded people to motivate a purchase.

Aprz · 2009-09-12 20:47:59

Oskarn, what do you like about the Mac? :?

oskarn · 2009-09-12 21:31:32

Aprz wrote:

Oskarn, what do you like about the Mac? :?

Good question. I like the intuitiveness and how everything Just Works. I like how usability has not been sacrificed for user friendlyness. I like the relationship between Apple and its community.

Wow. I guess I really should buy a Mac. I just feel a little melancholy of abondoning my Arch laptop. I want to use both. I am looking for reasons to have both.

jasonwryan · 2009-09-12 22:08:23

I've just gone the other way; after years of using a Mac (and for the most part loving it), I have become tired of the lack of freedom. DRM, the i-suite of products and a number of other smaller irritations just pushed me to a point where, after the upgrade to Tiger, I had reached the end of my tether. I swapped my G5 for an old Dell (with inferior hardware specs) installed Arch on it and I am now far more productive and content.

It's horses for courses, but my definition of usability relies heavily on having the freedom to operate on my terms...

My 2c.

Sakurina · 2009-09-12 22:12:14

Use both. That's what I do.

Honestly, Arch is the only Linux distribution that actually makes me want to possibly abandon the Mac in the future. What's holding me back is being an iPhone developer and depending on tools like Xcode and iTunes. (There is an open SDK for jailbroken phones which I use, but App Store is a much bigger audience to sell to.)

That said, I use pretty much the same apps on my Arch laptop and my iMac. I try to stick to terminal apps, so that in most cases, all that's keeping me from running them on my Mac is a recompile. I use uzbl as my main browser on Arch; were it not for Apple's completely unusable version of X11, I'd be using it on the Mac as well.

I use a tiling WM on my laptop due to it being a 10-inch netbook; ratpoison maximizes my windows so I can use them fullscreen all the time without wasting space. I prefer floating windows on the desktop, and so I go for what I believe to be the best floating window desktop environment available, OS X.

But honestly, I could probably go back and forth between Arch and OS X and enjoy both equally. The iPhone development tools are "locking me in", but at least it's locking me into a platform I enjoy.

Acecero · 2009-09-12 22:32:11

Try the Mac and see what you like. There are too many threads like this. There is no point in trying to convince people to having make decisions for them. If you're sad about leaving your Arch laptop, then keep it. You may end deciding you like Arch more after all and buying a Mac didn't work out for you. Idk, but I'm not going to tell you what you should do, rather I offer you a suggestion, which is probably the best advice anyone can give you.

My 2c.

Statix · 2009-09-12 22:47:52

Another suggestion: osx86. This is an unofficial version of OSX which you can run on non mac computers.

It doesn't have the "working out of the box" feature that you enjoy because there's usually a lot of tinkering involved to get things up and running. There's info on the wiki about the thinkpad t61.

I just suggest this because it will at least allow you to use the OS and see how it compares to arch in actual usage. Mac advertisement is a little too effective, so the best way to know whether you'll be getting your money's worth is to try it, imo.

Allamgir · 2009-09-12 23:20:20

I am a mac user with an Arch Linux laptop. What I have found is that macs are very good demo products, viz. great for showing off to friends, but for serious work sometimes they're not so great. It's not terrible (I'll leave that spot for Windows), but I'm not really effective with my mac. Of course they "Just Work" and all that BS but so does Linux. I went a while without using Arch because I was distro hopping again (oh, silly me) and was forced to use the mac only for work, play, etc. It was so lame. There are some things to like about OS X, but it's not really the "friendly UNIX" I thought it would be. Everything is so hidden that it's hard to get anything not perfectly designed for OS X to work really nicely. I have high expectations for my applications, though. A lot of the features that really drew me to make the purchase I was able to accomplish on Arch. I don't need much from my computer, but I want it done well. For example,

~Fast boot. Arch is even faster!
~Reliability. Arch is extremely reliable, even with the rolling release and bleeding edge system.
~Coolest/Latest features and apps. Arch has what the Linux community has to offer, which is a lot. OS X does have the iSuite that, in some cases, works better than open source alternatives.
~Well designed and highly effective apps. This is where I think Arch Linux really wins, but this category is also highly subjective.

Of couse, plenty of people can easily contest those points. That's just how I see things and how things have worked out for me. I would suggest getting a mac if there are some applications you need or want that are on OS X or Windows. Heck, you can run Linux on your mac and have both! If the only appeal is the polish and coolness, trust me, it's a superficial load of BS. You'll love it for the first week, but then you'll realize how Apple products are just like any other but with the good features emphasized (bolded because they seem to do it better and more than other companies).

Like I said: demo product, not really workhorse.

Aprz · 2009-09-13 10:30:53

Heh, I personally dislike Macs, but only cause my Dad drives me nuts about it. He's a huge Mac fanboy and he finds all my programming work, computer science studies, and enthusiasm towards Linux to be a huge waste. Doesn't matter what I say to him, Mac is superior to all else.

Renan Birck · 2009-09-13 16:18:25

I was considering migrating to Mac... until I found Arch.

Also, I guess I would find Mac OS X boring or annoying after a few hours, and would kill it and use Arch instead:

- I hate docks.
- I hate the "menu bar on top" approach.
- I like dark themes, and I have seen none for Mac OS X.
- I don't need anything to make UNIX "user-friendly" for me. For me, the command-line is user-friendly enough.

(and did I say I hate iTunes with a passion? I would end up running mpd on OS X, even)

Therefore, remains no reasons for me to use a Mac, except to run the same apps I already use on Arch.

rizzix · 2009-09-13 16:33:00

It is definitely possible to run a tiling WM on osx; however the WM will only manage X11 apps and not native Cocoa apps. This restriction may or may not be a problem for you.

oskarn · 2009-09-13 18:03:29

Great input everyone! Thank you.

Of course, one part of me realises that I would grow tired of it quickly, and hate it with a passion. My dislike for other desktop environments kind of proofs that. I just feel I am missing out on something and I don't know what.

The OSx86 project might just be what I need to still my curiosity. Thank you Statix for that one.

Now I'll be quiet and crawl back into my cave with my xterm, vim, ion3, irssi, mpd, etc. Thanks again.

Shapeshifter · 2009-09-13 19:26:35

ewww a mac. Most horrible WM ever:

- no resizing windows from the sides, only lover right corner
- no resizing windows using alt-middle click or similar
- one title bar per task, one title bar at a time - maybe a matter of taste, maybe just stupid design
- alt-tabbing doesn't switch between windows but tasks, every app has different shortcuts to switch between windows
- stupid and wasteful dock

It's horrible. Stupid. Insane. Inane. I had to use it regularly and I hate it.
The only upside is indeed very good support for "popular production apps" like m$ office, photoshop.

Apart from that, you get a terrible WM with no replacements available, overpriced hardware of low quality and avarage-to-bad customer support.

V for Vivian · 2009-09-13 19:49:44

Shapeshifter wrote:

- one title bar per task, one title bar at a time - maybe a matter of taste, maybe just stupid design

I vote for "a matter of taste" since this is one of the few things I still love about Mac OS. One other thing would be the one or other application with breathtaking beauty. Oh, and AppleScript.

What I really dislike about the Mac is the lack of customizability in some areas and that you need the newest version of the OS beause a lot of stuff doesn't run otherwise.

Anyway, that Mac really felt like "home". For a while. I'm glad I found Arch.

greenfish · 2009-09-14 10:34:01

Wow, where are the moderators?

Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

You're not a mac user that's pretty obvious @Renan Birck!

@Renan Birck Did you actually bother to read the thread at all before you decided to utter your "HATRED" (very strong word to use) against mac/apple?

I've noticed a certain trend around these boards recently, a lot of "angry" (don't ask me why) hijacks threads and tries to reflect their opinions in a way that's considered useless/or downright flaming.

Sorry for going a tad off topic oskarn, but I started reading this thread in hope of good answers instead of angry folks.

Last edited by greenfish (2009-09-14 10:34:54)

mthode · 2009-09-14 16:07:11

I have a mac (early 2008 MPB) and used OSX until about Febuary of 2009. I dropped OSX because of lack of freedom and what felt like alot of bloat. I run a tiling WM (awesome) because it is slim and fun

madalu · 2009-09-14 17:43:37

IMO, if you enjoy setting up your working environment "just right" (i.e., WM, keyboard shortcuts, etc.), then a Mac *may* prove frustrating. I'm a long term (former) Mac user who got addicted to the command line and emacs. In the end, I just found OS X too limiting.

In fact, if you rely heavily on text-based *nix tools, Arch Linux is probably more convenient than OS X. Sure, Arch takes longer to get running, But thanks to pacman, in the last 6 months I've spent almost no time fiddling with my basic Arch Linux setup.

On the other, on Mac OS X, an "intermediate" user like myself quickly runs into lots of complications when trying to install *nix-y software. For one, Darwin Ports can't even begin to compare to pacman/ABS or the BSD ports. (Out of date software, broken ports, etc.) And then you have to work with/around Cocoa's app bundles.

If you have moderate Unix skills, then Arch, I would argue, is easier to use for because of it's KISS philosophy. Mac OS X is *nix, but it's been built on a "keep it simple on the surface but complicated underneath" philosophy. Some of the biggest Mac fans I know are seasoned, 40-something *nix users who can handle all the installation issues with ease, but grew were tired of the state of the Linux desktop ca. 2003. If only they had waited around for Arch ca. 2009.

greenfish · 2009-09-14 17:56:51

madalu wrote:

IMO, if you enjoy setting up your working environment "just right" (i.e., WM, keyboard shortcuts, etc.), then a Mac *may* prove frustrating. I'm a long term (former) Mac user who got addicted to the command line and emacs. In the end, I just found OS X too limiting.
In fact, if you rely heavily on text-based *nix tools, Arch Linux is probably more convenient than OS X. Sure, Arch takes longer to get running, But thanks to pacman, in the last 6 months I've spent almost no time fiddling with my basic Arch Linux setup.
On the other, on Mac OS X, an "intermediate" user like myself quickly runs into lots of complications when trying to install *nix-y software. For one, Darwin Ports can't even begin to compare to pacman/ABS or the BSD ports. (Out of date software, broken ports, etc.) And then you have to work with/around Cocoa's app bundles.
If you have moderate Unix skills, then Arch, I would argue, is easier to use for because of it's KISS philosophy. Mac OS X is *nix, but it's been built on a "keep it simple on the surface but complicated underneath" philosophy. Some of the biggest Mac fans I know are seasoned, 40-something *nix users who can handle all the installation issues with ease, but grew were tired of the state of the Linux desktop ca. 2003. If only they had waited around for Arch ca. 2009.

I don't own a mac, but i'm thinking about buying one (love their look,style, etc+love my iphone). I know linux have matured a lot since 2.5 kernel but to me the biggest issues are still not solved, and they are somewhat devastating for a desktop user. Everytime xorg gets a new update my ati breaks completly, and that's not everything. KDE 4 isn't as swift as windows 7/macos is in terms of a nice user interface.

If you only care about 2D and no compositing i guess the open source drivers works just fine, but i'm willing to bet most of us wan't to utilize the system we paid for.

To me macosx sounds like best of both worlds

Seriously though it's not the geeks who decides the future of an os survival (desktop) , no it's that guy in the mall who just wan'ts surf,email,games, etc, he decides the future of a desktop bound os.

Have you tried leopard?

hemo7oxin · 2009-11-09 15:37:31

I've been using Arch for awhile now, just registered today however. Before I went off to college I got myself a MacBook, and I loved it. Now I'm huge a fan of customizing just about everything about my desktop environments and for a little bit I was satisfied with using Shapeshifter and like programs for OS X. However that got to be very restricting and since I've been using linux at work for a couple years I figured it was time to switch off of OS X and after a little bit of searching I chose Archlinux. But with that being said, getting everything working on my MacBook was kind of a pain but once successful I couldn't be happier. I'm extremely satisfied with Apple's customer support and my MacBook's hardware. I think OS X is a great OS for the average computer user. And to end my little rant, Archlinux on my MacBook is exactly what I want in/on my everyday laptop.

MrAllan · 2009-11-09 20:07:55

I got a MacBook with both Arch & Mac OS X on it. Arch obviously has many advantages, but one thing (if not _the_ thing) I love about Mac OS X is Cocoa. Seriously, try to code a Linux C++ program, and then try to code that same program using Cocoa. You'll probably find that developing the Cocoa app is _much_ faster.
But before I bought a MacBook, I had a hackintosh (iPC OSx86 ftw!) for about one year, which is definitely a great opportunity to check if you like Mac OS X.

Lich · 2009-11-10 08:31:23

MACS SUCK! It's nothing but hardware candy (and only hardware, I find quartz to be average compared to compiz), and yes, I use one daily for 3 years now. I am obliged to work on one every day for atleast 8 hours, and it's torture! And yes I use a tiling wm on Linux

pseudonomous · 2009-11-11 23:20:27

I dislike many, many things about OS X / Apple but one thing I do really love is that most OS X application honer the "GNU readline" text editing shortcuts; thatis c^k for cut c^a to the beginning of the line c^e to the end, c^y paste. Ask me someday, when you want your ear talked off about how I feel about keyboard shortcuts.

Arch Linux

#1 2009-09-12 20:25:06

Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#2 2009-09-12 20:47:59

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#3 2009-09-12 21:31:32

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#4 2009-09-12 22:08:23

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#5 2009-09-12 22:12:14

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#6 2009-09-12 22:32:11

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#7 2009-09-12 22:47:52

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#8 2009-09-12 23:20:20

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#9 2009-09-13 10:30:53

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#10 2009-09-13 16:18:25

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#11 2009-09-13 16:33:00

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#12 2009-09-13 18:03:29

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#13 2009-09-13 19:26:35

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#14 2009-09-13 19:49:44

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#15 2009-09-14 10:34:01

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#16 2009-09-14 16:07:11

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#17 2009-09-14 17:43:37

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#18 2009-09-14 17:56:51

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#19 2009-11-09 15:37:31

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#20 2009-11-09 20:07:55

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#21 2009-11-10 08:31:23

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

#22 2009-11-11 23:20:27

Re: Any Mac users that also enjoy term apps and tiling WMs on linux?

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