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#1 2009-09-15 17:26:16

Mr. Swillis
Member
Registered: 2008-06-24
Posts: 54

Qustions about Package "Groups"

Hello,

I have some general questions about package "groups" in Pacman. Mainly, I'm curious about who is responsible for deciding when a group will be made and what packages will be included. For example, I type in "pacman -S gnome" and get this:

gnome package not found, searching for group...
:: group gnome (including ignored packages):
    epiphany  gnome-applets  gnome-backgrounds  gnome-control-center  
    gnome-desktop  gnome-icon-theme  gnome-media  gnome-mime-data  gnome-mount  
    gnome-panel  gnome-screensaver  gnome-session  gnome-settings-daemon  
    gnome-themes  gnome2-user-docs  libgail-gnome  metacity  nautilus  
    notification-daemon  yelp  
:: Install whole content? [Y/n]

Who decides what all those packages will be? Is there a place where users can provide input about what should be included? I realize a big part of package groups by be simply ease of dependecy managent, but it seems it would be a useful tool for users to get a system up and running quickly. For example, there are several basic things that one would need to get a usable "desktop" up and running (not counting the WM or DM). For example, xorg, alsa, etc.

I understand that Arch is all about simplicity and building a system from the ground up, which I totally love, but many of us are still going to have the same core goals in mind when setting up a "desktop" system.  We're all going to need xorg, want sound, desire pretty fonts, and have some common useful apps. So, for anyone that falls into that category, a package group called something like "arch-desktop" could include some of these core components. We could even eventually have additional groups tailored towards specific DMs like "arch-desktop-xfce" or "arch-desktop-gnome".

Now, I realize I've totally spun this specifically for this propsed "arch-desktop" group smile but I guess my main point was to find out where one could provide official input for such things.

Thanks!

Swill


And you ate the whole... wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? Heck, I'm not even mad; that's amazing.

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#2 2009-09-15 17:38:28

tomk
Forum Fellow
From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,837

Re: Qustions about Package "Groups"

The bugtracker is the place for "official input" - feature requests as well as bugs.

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#3 2009-09-15 17:49:41

Mr. Swillis
Member
Registered: 2008-06-24
Posts: 54

Re: Qustions about Package "Groups"

Ok, that makes sense. Anyone know off hand if there is a specific list of criteria to justify a package group? Like, does there need to be a minimum number of packages or something like that? Anyone else think my example case would be useful and/or worth bringing up in the bug tracker? It seems to me like something that could make things "quicker" for an advanced user to get setup (less stuff to remember) and perhaps "easier" for teaching new Arch users.

For example, the Arch Wiki has the Beginner Guide, which includes pretty good example packages that most users would want for a desktop system, but having something like "arch-desktop" would make it easier for the beginners to remember vs visiting the Wiki each time they try an install. I don't know, maybe it's totally unecessary, just a thought.

Swill


And you ate the whole... wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? Heck, I'm not even mad; that's amazing.

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#4 2009-09-18 08:24:28

gnud
Member
Registered: 2005-11-27
Posts: 181

Re: Qustions about Package "Groups"

When it comes to KDE land, the groups are the official groups straight from KDE (and there is one group that contains all the other groups). It is, however, possible to install only one or two packages from one of these groups. So, the archlinux packagers make this option available to you.

I suspect something similar is going on in Gnome land?

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#5 2009-09-18 11:40:19

zenlord
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2006-05-24
Posts: 1,207
Website

Re: Qustions about Package "Groups"

Mr. Swillis wrote:

It seems to me like something that could make things "quicker" for an advanced user to get setup (less stuff to remember) and perhaps "easier" for teaching new Arch users.

Since pacman will resolve all dependencies, all you need is to do a
# pacman -Syu
# pacman -S gnome

after a core-install. Everything else you would need, could be clutter to someone else. I don't believe there is something as a 'sane default of packages'. Maybe if you're a fan of a particular windowmanager, then you might be interested in what the majority uses for a panel, a taskbar, a background-image-viewer, but also then there are so many choices and personal preferences that everyone could make his or her own group of packages.

my 0.02€

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#6 2009-09-18 12:07:57

shining
Pacman Developer
Registered: 2006-05-10
Posts: 2,043

Re: Qustions about Package "Groups"

This sounds similar to http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=80190

but I don't get it.

You can just create your own list of packages in a file, then just pacman -S $(cat arch-desktop)
What is the problem with that ?

Or create a meta-package : an empty PKGBUILD with just a list of all the dependencies you want.


pacman roulette : pacman -S $(pacman -Slq | LANG=C sort -R | head -n $((RANDOM % 10)))

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#7 2013-03-28 20:50:41

lmello
Member
From: Brazil
Registered: 2012-11-06
Posts: 288
Website

Re: Qustions about Package "Groups"

I was wondering a bit about it - when I first installed the 'gnome-extra' group, the 'gnome-nettool' package wasn't in it. Later I decided to simulate a reinstallation of the same group and the package was there, so who made this decision? Is there a way for the community to opine on the subject?


Fundamental Axiom of the Universe (aka Murphy's Law): Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.
First Digital Deduction: Nothing obeys Murphy's Law so well as computers.
Second Digital Deduction: Everything go wrong at least once.
Third Digital Deduction: Things go wrong even when there's absolutely no possibility of anything go wrong.

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#8 2013-03-28 21:08:14

jasonwryan
Forum & Wiki Admin
From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 18,300
Website

Re: Qustions about Package "Groups"

Please don't necrobump: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fo … Bumping.27

lmello wrote:

Is there a way for the community to opine on the subject?

No.

Closing


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