[SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

Bedtimes · 2009-09-26 16:47:20

Hello,
I'm interested in installing Arch Linux alongside Windows XP (dual-boot). I have little previous linux experience, although I have rented some servers that have used it in the past, as well as compiling some stuff with it while at University (studying Computer Science). Nevertheless, I am relatively confident that if I can still boot into XP, I will be able to acccustomise myself and like the fact that this distribution seems to be hands-on and leaves a lot up to the user.
I've been reading the Beginner's Guide and the dual boot guide, and I would like to get started, however, I'm not going to go ahead with this until I am certain that I will be left with a system that can still boot into Windows XP. I assume that it'll take me a while to get to grips with Arch, and in the meantime it would be massively inconvenient if I couldn't work/play/etc...

What I already know
Anyway, currently I have a 250GB hard drive that I use for Windows (as well as 3 other hard drives full of stuff). I have partitioned the drive with Windows XP on it with gparted like so:

(in order)

UNALLOCATED 32GB
SDB1 (Windows XP) 50GB
SDB2 (Downloads) 150GB

I hope to use the unallocated space to hold linux (and then have access to my other windows drives in the future, using ntfs-3g), however, I am a little confused over what partitions I 'should' have and how large they should be, considering that I will use the OS to mainly develop, browse the web, listen to music, etc...
I was thinking:

/boot -- ext2 -- 100MB
/ -- ext4 -- 15GB
swap -- -- 1GB
/home -- ext4 -- 12GB
/var -- ReiserFS -- 4GB

Questions
• Is 30GB too little, even though most of my stuff is on other NTFS hard drives?
• How large should / be? I've read that it contains /bin, /dev, /etc and others. How do I know how much space these need? Am I misunderstanding things?
• Is a /var partition unnecessary? How large should it be?
• 10GB for /home, 1GB for swap, 100MB for /boot?
• Do I need a /tmp or /usr? This is a single-user machine, but I don't want it to get messy!
• I was thinking of giving /boot ext2, and /var ReiserFS, and then giving every other partition ext4. That okay?
• Do I need to set these partitions up when installing, or can I set them up in advance with gparted - it might be simpler.
• Due to already having 2 NTFS primary partitions on the hard disk, I presume that some of the above will need to be logical partitions in an extended partition? How is this done?

Once the partitions have been set up, and linux is installed, I presume it's just a matter of completing the rest of Part I of the guide, and then ammending /boot/grub/menu.lst to include 'Windows XP'? At that point I am able to restart Windows XP, and only delve into Arch when I want to continue with the configuration, fixing, and so on...

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks for your patience. (:

Last edited by Bedtimes (2009-09-27 14:21:55)

graysky · 2009-09-26 17:49:27

30 GB is fine particularly if you use your NTFS partitions as data partitions. I wouldn't mess around w/ separate partitions. Just do a 120 MB /boot, 15-20 GB root (/) and the rest of /home. Depending on your installed RAM, you may not need a swap partition at all. >3 gigs and normal use = no swap.

Boot = ext3
/ and /home = ext4

I'd do the partitioning w/ gparted which is more graphical than the Arch installer. Here is my menu.lst which allows for a chainloading to XP

timeout   5
default   0
color light-blue/black light-cyan/blue
splashimage /grub/arch.xpm.gz

title           Arch Linux
root            (hd0,1)
kernel          /boot/vmlinuz26 root=/dev/sda2 ro quiet vga=773
initrd          /boot/kernel26.img

title           Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
root            (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader     +1

title           Shutdown Computer
halt

title More Options...
root            (hd0,6)
configfile      /grub/more.lst

Last edited by graysky (2009-09-26 18:08:19)

lestoil · 2009-09-26 17:57:01

The simplest approach would be to use gparted on the unused space to create / (ext3 is old reliable) and swap and putting grub in mbr to boot xp and Arch. Just follow the beginner install making sure to pick the correct partition created by gparted for / and don't format it again. Then when asked put grub in mbr. It should have Arch and XP entry.
Once you're used to the system then think about the more complex setup later if you need it Good luck!.

Bedtimes · 2009-09-26 18:51:38

Out of interest, is there any reason that I should pick x86-64 over i686? Is the driver and application support the same. I had heard rumours about bad Flash/Java support, but I don't know if that situation has changed?

graysky · 2009-09-26 19:42:28

If you have/need to use more than 3.3 gigs of RAM, use x86_64. The java/flash/wine issues do not exist any more.

area · 2009-09-26 20:02:17

Stick with i686 until you get the hang of things. 86_64 does have java/flash/(everything 686 does) but requires a little more work to get some things to work in some cases. You might be best off just letting the arch installer partition the unused space on that partition automatically. It tends to make good use off the space if you don't need anything specific and it requires no thought.

As for your concern about booting windows: just make sure to uncomment the grub menu.lst

title           Windows XP Professional
root            (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader     +1

lines for windows and make sure they point to the correct partition.

root          (hd0,0)

will probably work since you already installed windows.

Last edited by area (2009-09-26 20:03:04)

Garns · 2009-09-26 20:33:50

area wrote:

You might be best off just letting the arch installer partition the unused space on that partition automatically. It tends to make good use off the space if you don't need anything specific and it requires no thought.

Sorry, but that is dangerous bullshit.

Official Arch Linux Install Guide wrote:

Auto-prepare will automatically partition (and fully overwrite) one disk of your choice. It creates a simple layout with a /boot, swap, / and /home partition where you have some control over the used filesystems and sizes thereof.

Square · 2009-09-26 21:54:41

Bedtimes wrote:

Hello,
/boot -- ext2 -- 100MB
/ -- ext4 -- 15GB
swap -- -- 1GB
/home -- ext4 -- 12GB
/var -- ReiserFS -- 4GB

Your / might not need to be that big. With a few rather large games installed alongside a completely setup system, my / is only 5.3GB on a 12GB partition. As a note, this is without separating /var into a separate partition.

Likewise, if you tend to keep cached packages around, your /var partition could grow rather large. 4GB seems reasonable, but I usually don't separate /var from / so I wouldn't know.

Bedtimes wrote:

Questions
• Is 30GB too little, even though most of my stuff is on other NTFS hard drives?
• How large should / be? I've read that it contains /bin, /dev, /etc and others. How do I know how much space these need? Am I misunderstanding things?
• Is a /var partition unnecessary? How large should it be?
• 10GB for /home, 1GB for swap, 100MB for /boot?
• Do I need a /tmp or /usr? This is a single-user machine, but I don't want it to get messy!
• I was thinking of giving /boot ext2, and /var ReiserFS, and then giving every other partition ext4. That okay?
• Do I need to set these partitions up when installing, or can I set them up in advance with gparted - it might be simpler.
• Due to already having 2 NTFS primary partitions on the hard disk, I presume that some of the above will need to be logical partitions in an extended partition? How is this done?

30GB is plenty of space for any operating system, to be honest. / doesn't need to be much larger than 6GB at the very minimum, and 12 GB has always been more than enough in my case. It isn't necessary to separate /var from / if you don't wish. Your home partition is where most of your user files will go (media, configuration, documents, etc...) so you'll want to base the size on what you typically keep around. /boot using ext2 is more than common, and ext4 is supposed to be stable, but I haven't given it a shot. You can always set your partitions up in advance. You can only have 4 primary partitions on your hard drive, and Windows will be one of them in a dual boot. I believe having /boot as a primary partition and the rest as logical works, but I'm unsure so be sure to fact check me.

Good luck!

Bedtimes · 2009-09-27 02:51:23

Well, damn.
Thank god, I backed everything up...

I'm currently getting:

Error 22: No such partition

on every entry in the GRUB loader (both Arch and XP). I've tried to follow the beginner's guide exactly, and have tried doing so twice. I'm not sure what I've gone wrong on.

edit:
Does anybody know any effective ways of troubleshooting this, since once I get to this point, I can't do anything other than a reinstall...I swear I've done everything correctly. :[

Last edited by Bedtimes (2009-09-27 03:03:19)

perbh · 2009-09-27 03:13:47

*chuckles* You refer to 'sdbX' in your first post - so what's on your sda??
Also - the advice(s) you have been given talk about (hd0) - which is sda!!
Maybe you should give us a complete list of the disk(s) you are using ...

Bedtimes · 2009-09-27 11:24:57

That's the thing, I expect that I'm doing something wrong with the GRUB loader - and I admit my hard disk layout has been quite strange for a long time before installing linux.
Basically, it currently looks like this:

/dev/sda1 ntfs Music 250GB

/dev/sdb3 ext2 /boot 120MB
/dev/dsb4 extended
---- /dev/sdb5 linux-swap 1GB
---- /dev/sdb6 ext4 / 20GB
---- /dev/sdb7 ext4 /home 12GB
/dev/sdb1 ntfs Windows XP 50GB
/dev/sdb2 ntfs Downloads 150GB

/dev/sdc1 ntfs TV & Movies 950GB

• This list is in order that the entries appear on the hard disk, hence /boot is in the first 1024 cylinders of the hard disk, but as you can see the sdb numbers are actually in the chronological order that I created them.
• I used an extended partition with logical partitions inside since I had read that there was an issue with more than 4 partitions in a hard disk, and I already had 2 NTFS partitions.
• When it asked me to install GRUB to the MBR, I installed it to SDB as opposed to SDBx as it asked me to in the manual. This is the drive that contains /boot!
• I just managed to amend something in the menu.lst, in order that I can boot into Windows XP. Therefore my machine is not totally fucked up any more. (: Unfortunately, what I changed doesn't make sense to me, since I would have expected Windows XP to be on a different hard disk.

The contents of sdb3:
grub kernel26-fallback.img kernel26.img
lost+found System.map26 umlinuz26

When typing the command /sbin/blkid:
/dev/sda1: UUID="D0..." LABEL="Music" TYPE="ntfs"
/dev/sdb1: UUID="A8..." LABEL="Windows XP" TYPE="ntfs"
/dev/sdb2: UUID="557..." LABEL="Downloads" TYPE="ntfs"
/dev/sdb3: UUID="2676..." TYPE="ext2"
/dev/sdb5: UUID="0474..." TYPE="swap"
/dev/sdb6: UUID="0886..." TYPE="ext4"
/dev/sdb7: UUID="519becf..." TYPE="ext4"
/dev/sdc1: UUID="46AC59" LABEL="TV & Movies" TYPE="ntfs"

Inside /boot/grub/menu.lst:
timeout 5
default 0
color light-blue/black light-cyan/blue

# (1) Windows XP
title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1

# (2) Arch Linux
title Arch Linux
root (hd1,5)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/0886... ro vga=773
initrd /boot/kernel26.img

# (3) Arch Linux (Fallback)
title Arch Linux (Fallback)
root (hd1,5)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/0886... ro vga=773
initrd /boot/kernel26-fallback.img

edit: I'm able to access all of the installation partitions with gparted-live's terminal (by mounting the devices I need to access into folders in my root folder), so is there anything else you want me to check/change in order to find my linux root/boot partition?

Last edited by Bedtimes (2009-09-27 12:54:24)

Bedtimes · 2009-09-27 12:51:23

I fixed it! Thanks for all your help, guys. No doubt, I'll be asking you more in the next couple of weeks. (:

For future reference, it turned out that everything was actually on hd0 (I had been thrown into thinking this wouldn't be the case by the fact that, that was my second hard drive). It also turned out that since the partition I was addressing was the boot partition, I didn't need look for /boot/ inside it.

Inside /boot/grub/menu.lst:
timeout 5
default 0
color light-blue/black light-cyan/blue

# (1) Windows XP
title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1

# (2) Arch Linux
title Arch Linux
root (hd0,2)
kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/0886... ro vga=773
initrd /kernel26.img

# (3) Arch Linux (Fallback)
title Arch Linux (Fallback)
root (hd0,2)
kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/0886... ro vga=773
initrd /kernel26-fallback.img

Last edited by Bedtimes (2009-09-27 12:53:47)

Arch Linux

#1 2009-09-26 16:47:20

[SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#2 2009-09-26 17:49:27

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#3 2009-09-26 17:57:01

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#4 2009-09-26 18:51:38

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#5 2009-09-26 19:42:28

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#6 2009-09-26 20:02:17

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#7 2009-09-26 20:33:50

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#8 2009-09-26 21:54:41

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#9 2009-09-27 02:51:23

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#10 2009-09-27 03:13:47

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#11 2009-09-27 11:24:57

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

#12 2009-09-27 12:51:23

Re: [SOLVED] Longwinded beginner - Dual-boot & partition questions

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