New xorg-server is out: 1.7

zenlord · 2009-10-02 12:48:54

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n … &px=NzU3OQ

Since X11 is under heavy development, I can imagine there are quite a few people interested in this kind of news. Earlier this week mesa 7.6 and xorg-video-intel 2.9.0 were released.

Something I don't understand: what is the difference between Xorg (v7.5), xorg-server (v1.7) and mesa (v7.6) and where does the driver fit in? All I know is, I need them all to get more than a CLI on linux.

Zl.

combuster · 2009-10-02 13:49:42

Well I've just compiled xorg-server 1.7 and all deps from git and it's working just fine. Didn't notice any improvements though I'm sure there are many (XI2/Multi-Pointer X). Sadly because I havent used to pkgbuild I broke many deps on my arch wich is fine for me because I plan to reinstall arch once gnome 2.28, mesa 7.6 and xserver 1.7 hit the repos... In the meantime I promisse I will learn how to use pkgbuild, will save me a lot of trouble

Xorg is the entire collection of apps that consists of various modules, xserver, mesa, input and video drivers etc...

Ranguvar · 2009-10-02 21:02:03

Okay. Here's how it works.

X Window System (note, not Windows, Window!): A defined protocol for graphical user interfaces. Developed at MIT in 1984. This is just a protocol -- hence, you don't install X, you install an implementation of X, in this case, X.Org (more on that below). This makes sense, if you look at ls -l `which X`, X is a symlink to Xorg.

X11R7.4: The current version of the X Window System protocol. Commonly referred to as just X11, as v11 was in the 80's and it's not likely to become X12 any time soon. X.Org is the reference implementation of X, so new versions of the protocol are timed with new versions of X.Org.

X Server: An X11 window server. This is the meat of an X11 implementation, that handles "clients" (windows) -- but not ALL of an X11 implementation.

XFree86: A Free Software implementation of X11. This fell out of favor after a licensing change, and it was forked into X.Org in 2004. Development appears to be stalled, and most OSes that used XFree86 have switched to X.Org. Note that this isn't just the server.

X.Org: Another Free Software implementation of X11, forked from XFree86. This is actively developed, and is the reference implementation, which means that X.Org is developed by a lot of the same people that work on the X11 protocol, so releases of each are usually timed together.

X.Org Server: See "X Server". This is the meat of X.Org, but not all of it. This news is for a new version of the server, which Arch will likely get. Some distros will wait for X11R7.5 though, which X.Org Server 1.7 (or later) will be a part of.

X.Org Foundation: A non-profit scientific charity that manages X.Org.

freedesktop.org: Formerly known as the X Desktop Group, aka XDG, this is a charity organization that provides hosting, monetary support, promotion, and development of standards, for Free software on the desktop. Projects who are beneficiaries of freedesktop.org include X.Org, Mesa, GStreamer (replacement for DirectShow), D-Bus, HAL, fontconfig, Xft, Cairo, DRI... mostly low-level desktop stuff.

OpenGL: A cross-platform open API for 2D and 3D graphics. Competes with Microsoft's Direct3D. Again, this is an API, not a piece of software: video card drivers either deliver their own OpenGL implementation (read: Catalyst/fglrx, and the NVIDIA blob), or rely on OpenGL provided by the system in the case of the latest Free Software graphics work (see Mesa and DRI). To get Direct3D under GNU/Linux, one uses Wine, which is actually translating Direct3D calls to OpenGL on-the-fly. It should be technically possible to create Linux apps that use Direct3D by linking with winelib, though not preferred.

Mesa: A Free Software implementation of OpenGL. Mesa uses the CPU by default, aka software rendering, which is why everything is dog-slow without a proper video card. Mesa supports OpenGL 2.1, and is working on later versions.

DRI: Direct Rendering Infastructure. Technically this is more powerful than what I describe here, but all that is really needed to know is that it lets Mesa access the power of hardware video cards. Newer Free Software drivers tend to rely on DRI for accelerated 3D, and contribute to it as a universal approach to accelerated 3D (Nouveau, Intel, and xf86-video-ati/radeonhd). Most video card drivers (again, the open-source ones like those just listed) can only use DRI to achieve a lower version of OpenGL than Mesa, but this is also being worked on quickly. DRI consists of the DRM (Direct Rendering Manager, not evul corporate strategy ) which is kernel-level, and a userland driver like xf86-video-{ati,nouveau,radeonhd}.

Whewh! That was a lot; I think that's it. There may be errors though, this is only from a long time puzzling over the complex situation of Free Software graphics. Let me know if you have any other questions

Last edited by Ranguvar (2009-10-15 20:04:30)

toxygen · 2009-10-02 22:36:32

Thanks Ranguvar! that was a great summary.

Runiq · 2009-10-03 10:13:06

Yes, definitely. Thanks from here, too.

paavo · 2009-10-03 10:47:01

I have wondered for a while, why there are a lot of packages in Arch repos that start xf86? For example the xf86-video-ati. Isn't xf86 the same as Xfree86? Seems strange to name X.org-packages as being Xfree86.

ngoonee · 2009-10-03 11:47:01

That's the upstream name....

bharani · 2009-10-03 11:58:23

Thanks for info.

Last edited by bharani (2009-10-03 12:03:01)

Ranguvar · 2009-10-03 20:01:46

Yeah, the X.Org drivers kept the xf86-* names from XFree86

some-guy94 · 2009-10-03 21:28:17

combuster wrote:

Well I've just compiled xorg-server 1.7 and all deps from git and it's working just fine. Didn't notice any improvements though I'm sure there are many (XI2/Multi-Pointer X)

For XI2/MPX, the window managers and toolkits need to take advantage of it. Currently there are two wms that do, the demo window manager created for mpx testing, and a patched compiz (this could easily e out of date)

venky80 · 2009-10-03 22:34:42

wow this has to be put in wiki somewhere, good job Ranguvar and thanks

gregorburger · 2009-10-12 01:10:04

I too compile 1.7. What I noticed was a much faster startup of X. Although this might be because I also updated to the 2.9 intel drivers. flash runs with
much less CPU, which is a relieve. Beside that it runs stable no crash since two hours including WorldOfGoo, heavy browsing and youtube. It feels a lot snappier, but again maybe the new intel drivers.

greetings

Ranguvar · 2009-10-12 01:29:25

You're welcome, but just to note, any of you could also put it in the wiki

I have yet to try the 1.7 server, I might if I get some time soon... time that I'm not using slacking on the forum

georgo.org · 2009-10-12 06:34:28

gregorburger wrote:

I too compile 1.7. What I noticed was a much faster startup of X.

Hi, do you think you can provide PKGBUILDs for compilation? I want to try 1.7 on my testing machine, but my skill to prepare all dependencies is not too high

Thanks

shining · 2009-10-12 07:59:34

I bumped nearly 20 xorg packages, to get xorg 1.7 working. No git packages, I used the latest snapshot/tarball for everything.
I was thinking I could at least share the pkgbuilds somewhere (the packages are i686, compiled with testing repo enabled, and not in a chroot).

gregorburger · 2009-10-12 09:18:25

georgo.org wrote:

gregorburger wrote:
I too compile 1.7. What I noticed was a much faster startup of X.
Hi, do you think you can provide PKGBUILDs for compilation? I want to try 1.7 on my testing machine, but my skill to prepare all dependencies is not too high
Thanks

Hi, I'm myself not a pacman magician but what i did was this:
$ sudo abs extra/xorg-server

this pulls in the currently used PKGBUILD und /var/abs/extra/xorg-server
- copy it somewhere (not to /tmp as I did and lost all the work so I can't
provide you the PKGBUILD )
- change the version number in the PKGBUILD and update the md5sums
using makepkg -g. (you can pipe them into the PKGBUILD using
makepkg -g >> PKGBUILD and the comment out the old sums)
- you need various proto packages to update. just do the same
with the proto packages (find here the latest versions of the protos
http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/individual/proto/)
- you need to also recompile xf86-input-keyboard, xf86-input- mouse
and xf86-input-evdev (this one is really important mouse and keyboard
won't work without it ).

thats roughly how i did it, as said before I can't provide you the PKGBUILDs
i lost them in tmpfs after painfully noticing the evdev is needed ;-)

cheers

Onwards · 2009-10-12 12:46:26

@ Ranguvar:
Thanks for such a great refresher!!

Ranguvar · 2009-10-14 03:26:28

Holy crap, 1.7 _is_ tons faster starting up Easily 2-3sec. faster.

NVIDIA binary drivers here, same version.

shining · 2009-10-14 06:32:41

In testing now

combuster · 2009-10-14 07:14:46

Man, you don't know how that made my day, great. Mesa and entire xorg stack are in testing. Did Xorg 7.5 got released?

pyther · 2009-10-14 14:46:09

It seems as everything is being scaled differently, smaller on my eee. However this is a good thing, because before I felt everything was to big!

Hohoho · 2009-10-14 14:53:22

Might be a text DPI glitch.

KlavKalashj · 2009-10-14 14:54:14

pyther wrote:

It seems as everything is being scaled differently, smaller on my eee. However this is a good thing, because before I felt everything was to big!

I experience the same thing. Suddenly my screen feels much bigger. But if you don't like small fonts, I guess this could be a problem. For me, I think I like it

combuster · 2009-10-14 15:35:50

Well xserver and the rest from testing works just fine, with mesa upgrade I can run enemy territory now and warsow also, performance jumped but by a small margin (30 instead of 25fps under same conditions in extremetuxracer). Great upgrade

.:B:. · 2009-10-14 15:50:58

Thanks for the stuff in testing Shining

Arch Linux

#1 2009-10-02 12:48:54

New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#2 2009-10-02 13:49:42

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#3 2009-10-02 21:02:03

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#4 2009-10-02 22:36:32

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#5 2009-10-03 10:13:06

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#6 2009-10-03 10:47:01

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#7 2009-10-03 11:47:01

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#8 2009-10-03 11:58:23

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#9 2009-10-03 20:01:46

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#10 2009-10-03 21:28:17

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#11 2009-10-03 22:34:42

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#12 2009-10-12 01:10:04

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#13 2009-10-12 01:29:25

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#14 2009-10-12 06:34:28

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#15 2009-10-12 07:59:34

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#16 2009-10-12 09:18:25

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#17 2009-10-12 12:46:26

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#18 2009-10-14 03:26:28

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#19 2009-10-14 06:32:41

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#20 2009-10-14 07:14:46

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#21 2009-10-14 14:46:09

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#22 2009-10-14 14:53:22

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#23 2009-10-14 14:54:14

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#24 2009-10-14 15:35:50

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

#25 2009-10-14 15:50:58

Re: New xorg-server is out: 1.7

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