Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

vajorie · 2009-11-08 05:27:11

Would this be feasable? For instance, one big problem this day looks like the xorg update in relation to nvidia drivers.

This would make life easier for newbies (like me) coming here and looking to see if they can do a pacman -Syu safely...

ataraxia · 2009-11-08 06:36:37

Whose job would it be to determine each day's update, and post it?

How would we get people who already don't bother to read before posting to read this thread?

How would we prevent random losers from posting their own favorite support question there to get more attention, or from dragging it off-topic?

Sorry to shoot this down, but it seems impractical.

vajorie · 2009-11-08 07:40:57

ataraxia wrote:

Whose job would it be to determine each day's update, and post it?

Anyone's

ataraxia wrote:

How would we get people who already don't bother to read before posting to read this thread?

Hoping that it will become known for folk (like many slowly learn to read the news feed first).

ataraxia wrote:

How would we prevent random losers from posting their own favorite support question there to get more attention, or from dragging it off-topic?

No idea. Will probably stabilize as people see that the thread is only for posting brief reports on problems (ie "today, xorg's update seems to be causing some problems with nvidia") and not solutions.

Edit: disclaimer - I don't have nvidia

ataraxia wrote:

Sorry to shoot this down, but it seems impractical.

No prob

Last edited by vajorie (2009-11-08 07:41:47)

Allan · 2009-11-08 08:41:01

So... lets replicate the "show new posts link"?

Not going to happen.

Nezmer · 2009-11-08 11:28:05

I thought once about creating a known issues page .

1) Name.
2) Packages affected.
3) Confirmed by.
4) Workaround .

But that system requires a lot of maintenance .

xsytry · 2009-11-08 17:10:14

Nezmer wrote:

I thought once about creating a known issues page .
1) Name.
2) Packages affected.
3) Confirmed by.
4) Workaround .
But that system requires a lot of maintenance .

Seriously? http://bugs.archlinux.org ain't enough?

vajorie · 2009-11-08 18:51:51

xsytry wrote:

Nezmer wrote:
I thought once about creating a known issues page .
1) Name.
2) Packages affected.
3) Confirmed by.
4) Workaround .
But that system requires a lot of maintenance .
Seriously? http://bugs.archlinux.org ain't enough?

We are talking about issues causing widespread trouble that day for users who may or may not be willing to report a bug... And I more specifically was talking about just items 1 and 2.

Here's an example posted by an imaginary random user under my suggested thread:

Hey folk, I was browsing the forums and found xorg and nvidia updates are causing trouble today. Beware.

Last edited by vajorie (2009-11-08 18:54:18)

mcsaba77 · 2009-11-08 18:53:57

xsytry wrote:

Nezmer wrote:
I thought once about creating a known issues page .
1) Name.
2) Packages affected.
3) Confirmed by.
4) Workaround .
But that system requires a lot of maintenance .
Seriously? http://bugs.archlinux.org ain't enough?

It's not, if you just want to quickly see if there's any problem with the packages showing up in the -Syu output. For example, today's problem for me, and many others is xorg upgrade + kde4.3.3. I don't see anything on bugtracker about this. I didn't even know what the problem actually was. It happened after I installed google calendar support for akonadi, logged out of kde and logged back (to make it show up in systemsettings). I immediately noticed that I have to wait 5-10 seconds for Kmenu, Krun, etc... Forgot that I haven't rebooted for days (so I was running pre-upgrade xorg).

Oh, and before you point out the search function, searching for kde turn on the bugtracker turns up nothing...

I'm not saying that a daily sticky is a must, but I do believe it would help. I'd like to see something like a "suspect" upgrades, a place where early ugpraders can report problematic upgrades. On the other hand, ataraxia has a point. I like Nezmer's idea the best, but the question remains - who would do it?

Xyne · 2009-11-08 19:25:31

vajorie wrote:

Here's an example posted by an imaginary random user under my suggested thread:
Hey folk, I was browsing the forums and found xorg and nvidia updates are causing trouble today. Beware.

Your example perfectly illustrates why this is unnecessary. All you need to do is browse the forum (new posts, etc).

stryder · 2009-11-10 15:43:24

Xyne wrote:

vajorie wrote:
Here's an example posted by an imaginary random user under my suggested thread:
Hey folk, I was browsing the forums and found xorg and nvidia updates are causing trouble today. Beware.
Your example perfectly illustrates why this is unnecessary. All you need to do is browse the forum (new posts, etc).

The suggestion is that it will be helpful, not that it is necessary. The thread should be only for moderators/TUs/devs to post and the post will provide a link to the forum thread where the issue is raised (and open for discussion). Not perfect, to catch every problem, but can be useful, I think. For example,

latest samba upgrade (3.4.3) has password issues. Check this thread: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=84416

Xyne · 2009-11-10 16:41:04

That's what the news page is for.

grey · 2009-11-10 16:58:26

So you think that samba password issue should have been on the news page? Then let's take that as an example. Getting it onto the front page seems much more complicated than getting it into the "issue of the day" thread. The best case scenario is 1. someone contacts the package maintainer, 2. the package maintainer agrees that this is front page news, 3. it is forwarded it to whoever can put it onto the front page, 4. it's put onto the front page.
It seems a lot easier to have a thread with limited write permissions, where you (as a trusted user) can post as soon as you've decided that it belongs there.

Last edited by grey (2009-11-10 16:58:59)

Xyne · 2009-11-10 17:37:10

I think TU's have access to the front page news. It's on the dev dashboard but I've never had a reason to edit it so I've never tried.

The front page news is used to warn about breakage and other general nastiness that would perturb an otherwise smooth upgrade but not everyone will agree on what merits mention on that page. A forum thread take less effort to update and would probably have a lower threshold for matters of disputable importance.

My point though is that major breakage (big problems, affects many users) will be reported on the front page. Problems which are less severe or less widespread will appear on the forums in threads about the issue which will also contain suggestions and solutions. The whole point of your suggestion is to make people aware of pending issues and I believe that the current system does this. You should check the front page before updating anything important and you should take a quick peek at the forum. Any issue that is likely to affect you will have affected others and the related thread(s) will be relatively active and apparent.

Thinking about it more though it would essentially be a news aggregator. It would be possible to subscribe to the topic and receive emails notifications. It would also be possible keep a clear record of issues for anyone arriving after the fact.

Meh, overall I see the benefits but I don't know if they're worth it. It amounts to maintaining a sign with all the newspaper headlines right next to the news stand where you can read all of the headlines directly. It might be a bit more visible from a distance and let some random passer-by know what the big issue of the day is, but at the same time anyone who actually cares would have come by to read it first-hand.

You also have to consider that this has the air of novelty and that's usually frowned upon in established settings.

*withdraws any opinion he may have given and sits down to see where this goes*

stryder · 2009-11-11 04:57:49

Xyne wrote:

That's what the news page is for.

Actually, I think that is what the "Announcements, Package and Security Advisories" section is for. In fact I would like to see that announcements regarding problematic package updates here as well. News to me is news. Right now this section is mostly announcements and package issues and advisories rarely make their way there.

Anyway, like Xyne I will step aside from this discussion - I generally like to read the forum posts because I learn stuff there, so this is no big deal to me. And I don't upgrade very often and only when I think problems have settled. I think though it can be very helpful to others who don't have the time but then Arch linux tends to be skewed towards "self-help" and technical ability and inclination to peek under the hood. And I think people here value the "once bitten twice shy" education. "You have a problem? Here are the resources - help yourself" is a good attitude. "Here are some problems we have found lately that you might want to avoid" is a helpful attitude.

grey · 2009-11-11 10:53:48

Another data point: the latest version of hal doesn't use policykit anymore. Quite a few users will have to rewrite their authorization rules. As skottish pointed out in http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php? … 88#p653888:

Well, lets find a solution. There's about to be 100 identical posts on this subject.

Out of these 100 threads, maybe 2 or 3 will be productive. There has to be a better way than that. For example an entry in the 'issue of the day thread' stating the problem and pointing to one thread where it is being discussed / solved.

Surgat_ · 2009-11-11 12:29:00

Or maybe a list with the five most active threads within the last 48 hours, which could be placed in the front page for example...

Allan · 2009-11-11 23:34:46

Surgat_ wrote:

Or maybe a list with the five most active threads within the last 48 hours, which could be placed in the front page for example...

They will likely all be from the "off-topic" or "try this" sections

Surgat_ · 2009-11-12 12:08:23

Allan wrote:

Surgat_ wrote:
Or maybe a list with the five most active threads within the last 48 hours, which could be placed in the front page for example...
They will likely all be from the "off-topic" or "try this" sections

Certainly. Perhaps some sections (Contributions and Userspace?) and/or subforums should be excluded from the list. Or may the list contain only topics from the section "Arch Help"...

R00KIE · 2009-11-12 13:13:27

Well, if things break a little you can always revert the changes, also what is important to one person may be irrelevant to another person, like ataraxia said posts like that can go off-topic way too easily. Also consider the persons that don't update their systems every day, the big problem of the day will be irrelevant thus leading to the usage of the search function, which should be used already.

It's very easy to find the common problems, just look into each subsection and look at the posts on the top, there is a big chance that problematic updates will have a thread there with many replies, these things take care of themselves already.

SevenThunders · 2009-11-29 02:41:46

Hmm, I think it's a good idea personally. I got bit by the xord + kde + nvidia thing and I still haven't resolved it.

I'll bet there is a way to automate it to some extent to minimize maintenance. Perhaps automate a search for problem, bug, freeze, broken etc and see what topics get the most hits. After that do some kind of parsing to fill in some kind of form and automatically generate links to proposed solutions.

Just a thought.

Arch Linux

#1 2009-11-08 05:27:11

Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#2 2009-11-08 06:36:37

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#3 2009-11-08 07:40:57

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#4 2009-11-08 08:41:01

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#5 2009-11-08 11:28:05

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#6 2009-11-08 17:10:14

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#7 2009-11-08 18:51:51

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#8 2009-11-08 18:53:57

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#9 2009-11-08 19:25:31

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#10 2009-11-10 15:43:24

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#11 2009-11-10 16:41:04

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#12 2009-11-10 16:58:26

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#13 2009-11-10 17:37:10

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#14 2009-11-11 04:57:49

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#15 2009-11-11 10:53:48

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#16 2009-11-11 12:29:00

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#17 2009-11-11 23:34:46

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#18 2009-11-12 12:08:23

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#19 2009-11-12 13:13:27

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

#20 2009-11-29 02:41:46

Re: Suggestion: a sticky thread identifying that day's common problems

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