Chakra at Distrowatch

rasat · 2009-11-20 11:03:16

Its nice to see that our kdemod team is getting recognized at Distrowatch. Last two weeks (since 31st Oct.) Chakra's rank went from 98 to 44 and continues to go up. This also keeps Arch at rank 10 (last 6 months) and crossed the 700 HPD (first time).
http://distrowatch.com/

axel668 · 2009-11-20 11:39:05

good news everybody
in 2 years, Arch will be #1 and Chakra #4 (like Ubuntu / Mint today)

Last edited by axel668 (2009-11-20 11:39:17)

arkham · 2009-11-20 11:40:02

axel668 wrote:

good news everybody
in 2 years, Arch will be #1 and Chakra #4 (like Ubuntu / Mint today)

God I really hope not.

keiichi · 2009-11-23 00:47:11

arkham wrote:

axel668 wrote:
good news everybody
in 2 years, Arch will be #1 and Chakra #4 (like Ubuntu / Mint today)
God I really hope not.

But think of the lulz!

pyther · 2009-11-23 03:48:10

arkham wrote:

axel668 wrote:
good news everybody
in 2 years, Arch will be #1 and Chakra #4 (like Ubuntu / Mint today)
God I really hope not.

I couldn't agree more! I can only imagine the nightmare!

MP2E · 2009-11-23 04:11:57

Haha if we were number 1 that would mean that more people are intelligent and care about having fine-grained control of their systems! That means more people like me and you, which would be amazing. Unfortunately the way the computer userbase is today, that is very doubtful.

.:B:. · 2009-11-23 06:52:48

keiichi wrote:

arkham wrote:
axel668 wrote:
good news everybody
in 2 years, Arch will be #1 and Chakra #4 (like Ubuntu / Mint today)
God I really hope not.
But think of the lulz!

If you promise to handle the noobs, we'll think of it .

jowilkin · 2009-11-23 06:58:04

Chakra is a cool idea. I tried it out on my laptop and the live cd did not work unfortunately. But best of luck to the developers, I will use it when it is more mature.

ngoonee · 2009-11-23 07:25:48

B wrote:

keiichi wrote:
arkham wrote:
God I really hope not.
But think of the lulz!
If you promise to handle the noobs, we'll think of it .

+200!

corsakh · 2009-11-23 09:15:52

I don't even know what you guys are talking about. I am a total noob and I find Arch less problematic than Ubuntu in many cases. For example 64bit flash in Chrome works out of the box. In Ubuntu, I had to use 32bits and it did not work out of the box. The only real issue was the install part so far.

Nezmer · 2009-11-23 09:30:31

corsakh wrote:

I don't even know what you guys are talking about. I am a total noob and I find Arch less problematic than Ubuntu in many cases. For example 64bit flash in Chrome works out of the box. In Ubuntu, I had to use 32bits and it did not work out of the box. The only real issue was the install part so far.

The noobs we are talking about are the people who Installed their OS via a shiny graphical installer , use gnome/KDE solely even for administrative tasks and think they are competent Linux users. If a distro doesn't work for them , then It's the distro's fault.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with a computer illiterate who is willing to learn the basic UNIX (and UNIX-like) commands , do his research before asking anything and excepts the fact that he doesn't know much. This kind of a person is treated with nothing but respect here.

keiichi · 2009-11-23 12:05:42

B wrote:

keiichi wrote:
arkham wrote:
God I really hope not.
But think of the lulz!
If you promise to handle the noobs, we'll think of it .

If I have to handle the noobs, then the lulz just aren't worth it. *hangs up hat*

Mountainjew · 2009-11-23 17:07:15

Nezmer wrote:

corsakh wrote:
I don't even know what you guys are talking about. I am a total noob and I find Arch less problematic than Ubuntu in many cases. For example 64bit flash in Chrome works out of the box. In Ubuntu, I had to use 32bits and it did not work out of the box. The only real issue was the install part so far.
The noobs we are talking about are the people who Installed their OS via a shiny graphical installer , use gnome/KDE solely even for administrative tasks and think they are competent Linux users. If a distro doesn't work for them , then It's the distro's fault.
I don't think anyone would have a problem with a computer illiterate who is willing to learn the basic UNIX (and UNIX-like) commands , do his research before asking anything and excepts the fact that he doesn't know much. This kind of a person is treated with nothing but respect here.

What's wrong with using Gnome or KDE? Does that make Linus a noob too?

Not everybody likes living in the 80's without a gui.

Last edited by Mountainjew (2009-11-23 17:08:37)

mythus · 2009-11-23 19:15:37

Mountainjew wrote:

Nezmer wrote:
corsakh wrote:
I don't even know what you guys are talking about. I am a total noob and I find Arch less problematic than Ubuntu in many cases. For example 64bit flash in Chrome works out of the box. In Ubuntu, I had to use 32bits and it did not work out of the box. The only real issue was the install part so far.
The noobs we are talking about are the people who Installed their OS via a shiny graphical installer , use gnome/KDE solely even for administrative tasks and think they are competent Linux users. If a distro doesn't work for them , then It's the distro's fault.
I don't think anyone would have a problem with a computer illiterate who is willing to learn the basic UNIX (and UNIX-like) commands , do his research before asking anything and excepts the fact that he doesn't know much. This kind of a person is treated with nothing but respect here.
What's wrong with using Gnome or KDE? Does that make Linus a noob too?
Not everybody likes living in the 80's without a gui.

I agree.

Nothing is wrong with using GNOME or KDE and any thought of such is just plain silly. I like running all the other fun filled environments, like pekwm, fluxbox, e17, fvwm, etc... even trying some odder ones like firebox and twindy, however there comes a time I just want the ease and beauty of a nicely configured GNOME or KDE desktop. Now I also willingly admit that I am no linux god, but a n00b just because I like the option of using such an environment is a silly thought.

However to be fair, I highly doubt that is what Nezmer was suggesting (shame on him if it is). I think Nezmer is talking about the folks that can't handle bash/command line at all and thus rely on the GUI tools of GNOME and KDE as n00bs and not the folks who know their way around the command line but still like using GNOME or KDE. I believe there is a difference there and that unfortunately that difference was lost via the evils of internet communication.

Nezmer · 2009-11-23 19:32:07

mythus wrote:

I believe there is a difference there and that unfortunately that difference was lost via the evils of internet communication.

I'm sorry . My English is poor.

Although I think you should look at the whole paragraph , I think I was clear enough with the quoted text below:

use gnome/KDE solely even for administrative tasks and think they are competent Linux users.

If I write :
"It doesn't make since living in the USA , eating 10 cheese burgers every day and complaining about health issues".
Would you respond with :
"What's wrong with living in the USA ?" !!

mythus · 2009-11-23 20:21:40

*nods* that is why I stated " However to be fair, I highly doubt that is what Nezmer was suggesting (shame on him if it is). I think Nezmer is talking about the folks that can't handle bash/command line at all and thus rely on the GUI tools of GNOME and KDE as n00bs and not the folks who know their way around the command line but still like using GNOME or KDE. I believe there is a difference there and that unfortunately that difference was lost via the evils of internet communication."

But at the same time I also wanted to state my agreement that using a DE like GNOME or KDE does not equal n00b as some would imply. I understand that you yourself were not.

.:B:. · 2009-11-23 20:26:40

I think Mountainjew focused on one sentence in Nezmer's statement, taking it out of context and turning it into something else than it was. Maybe Nezmer did phrase it a bit in an unlucky way but to me it didn't read like a flame towards Gnome/KDE users.

I applaud the work the Chakra devs are doing but guess where the users run to when they have problems. Not the Chakra forums; you see them popping up here 'oh this is broken that is broken'. And a lot of the time it's something Chakra-specific like repos that are a bit behind or sth like that. Outfitting a DIY distro with a GUi installer doesn't make it another distro. It's still the same distro, but to the unexperienced it will look like something else, and it will attract a different public.

Distrowatch has its own kind of public.

venky80 · 2009-11-23 23:17:11

B wrote:

I think Mountainjew focused on one sentence in Nezmer's statement, taking it out of context and turning it into something else than it was. Maybe Nezmer did phrase it a bit in an unlucky way but to me it didn't read like a flame towards Gnome/KDE users.
I applaud the work the Chakra devs are doing but guess where the users run to when they have problems. Not the Chakra forums; you see them popping up here 'oh this is broken that is broken'. And a lot of the time it's something Chakra-specific like repos that are a bit behind or sth like that. Outfitting a DIY distro with a GUi installer doesn't make it another distro. It's still the same distro, but to the unexperienced it will look like something else, and it will attract a different public.
Distrowatch has its own kind of public.

I know lot of people who have tried Arch only coz they tried chakra, so noob or not it works.
Also I am a noob and I have been using Arch for more than 2 years, so noobs can indeed use arch.

Anikom15 · 2009-11-23 23:56:49

Nezmer wrote:

. . .
I don't think anyone would have a problem with a computer illiterate who is willing to learn the basic UNIX (and UNIX-like) commands , do his research before asking anything and excepts the fact that he doesn't know much. This kind of a person is treated with nothing but respect here.

Kind of like me? Anyways, even if arch does get popular, the philosophy will stay the same.

funkyou · 2009-11-24 19:29:53

B wrote:

I applaud the work the Chakra devs are doing but guess where the users run to when they have problems. Not the Chakra forums; you see them popping up here 'oh this is broken that is broken'. And a lot of the time it's something Chakra-specific like repos that are a bit behind or sth like that. Outfitting a DIY distro with a GUi installer doesn't make it another distro. It's still the same distro, but to the unexperienced it will look like something else, and it will attract a different public.

I dont believe its so simple.

An excerpt from our homepage:

Although this might sound like a distro for Linux newbies, these are not our primary target audience, at least not for the moment. Chakra is made for techy people and competent GNU/Linux users with a passion for KDE, KISS and such stuff, who dont fear to get their hands dirty but want to set up a usable desktop system quickly and easily.

We can not force people to read.

And watch this:

Not a single link to the Arch Forums. Now, what would a newbie do? Visit the Arch or Chakra forums?

Also check our tools, like this one. All options are named exactly like in the config files. We are just providing another "interface" or "view" and group them together. You still need some knowledge.

Hmmm, maybe our last resort: A "disclaimer" in big red letters that appears before downloading Chakra, which contains the "this is a DIY distro, it is basically Arch Linux"-message (and more), to make it a bit more clear what it is about

And with this distrowatch ranking, among all those "userfriendly" distributions, Arch attracts newbies by itself. Chakra is not making it worser. This is more a "side effect" of quality and growth, just make yourself familiar with it

mivo · 2009-11-25 17:30:34

Mountainjew wrote:

Not everybody likes living in the 80's without a gui.

CLIs are just as advanced, if not more advanced, than GUIs, so this has nothing to do with the 80s. This also isn't about "either/or". What's wrong with using both? I use Xfce for most of my every day interacting with the machine, but I often fall back on the shell because I can do administrative tasks or configuration much faster, accurately and efficiently that way.

For the installation of a distro, I prefer a CLU too, because it often seems more accurate and you can do more detailed setting up. I installed Ubuntu on someone's box recently and used the graphical installer. It was not a great experience ... it was very "one size fits all"-like. (I know there is an alternate installer, but I didn't have the CD with me.)

keiichi · 2009-11-26 00:14:44

funkyou wrote:

B wrote:
I applaud the work the Chakra devs are doing but guess where the users run to when they have problems. Not the Chakra forums; you see them popping up here 'oh this is broken that is broken'. And a lot of the time it's something Chakra-specific like repos that are a bit behind or sth like that. Outfitting a DIY distro with a GUi installer doesn't make it another distro. It's still the same distro, but to the unexperienced it will look like something else, and it will attract a different public.
I dont believe its so simple.
An excerpt from our homepage:
Although this might sound like a distro for Linux newbies, these are not our primary target audience, at least not for the moment. Chakra is made for techy people and competent GNU/Linux users with a passion for KDE, KISS and such stuff, who dont fear to get their hands dirty but want to set up a usable desktop system quickly and easily.
We can not force people to read.
And watch this:
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/631/linksx.th.png
Not a single link to the Arch Forums. Now, what would a newbie do? Visit the Arch or Chakra forums?
Also check our tools, like this one. All options are named exactly like in the config files. We are just providing another "interface" or "view" and group them together. You still need some knowledge.

Hmmm, maybe our last resort: A "disclaimer" in big red letters that appears before downloading Chakra, which contains the "this is a DIY distro, it is basically Arch Linux"-message (and more), to make it a bit more clear what it is about
And with this distrowatch ranking, among all those "userfriendly" distributions, Arch attracts newbies by itself. Chakra is not making it worser. This is more a "side effect" of quality and growth, just make yourself familiar with it

You told him!

.:B:. · 2009-11-26 07:10:03

funkyou wrote:

I dont believe its so simple.
An excerpt from our homepage:
Although this might sound like a distro for Linux newbies, these are not our primary target audience, at least not for the moment. Chakra is made for techy people and competent GNU/Linux users with a passion for KDE, KISS and such stuff, who dont fear to get their hands dirty but want to set up a usable desktop system quickly and easily.
We can not force people to read.

Let me put it like this: if you build a Humvee, it's not meant to be driven in urban environments (in peacetime). Yet people will do it. Most people with offroad vehicles never ever see anything but paved roads. You might have different intentions, but that does not mean what you design will be used as such.

Not a single link to the Arch Forums. Now, what would a newbie do? Visit the Arch or Chakra forums?

I stand corrected . The fact alone Chakra has its own forums shows its good intentions btw. Maybe I am focusing too much on the ones that do slip through...

Also check our tools, like this one. All options are named exactly like in the config files. We are just providing another "interface" or "view" and group them together. You still need some knowledge.

You still need knowledge for Ubuntu too, as you'd need for Windows, or even Mac OS X (although that's more fool-proof). What's your point? The biggest hurdle for most noobs is the installer. There are people that run Arch for months - until the first upgrade bump comes, then they start whining because it breaks and they can't fix it.

Hmmm, maybe our last resort: A "disclaimer" in big red letters that appears before downloading Chakra, which contains the "this is a DIY distro, it is basically Arch Linux"-message (and more), to make it a bit more clear what it is about

As above - it's not your intentions, it's what people make of it . If I'd see such a thing, my reflex would be: well I'll check in with the Arch community itself, rather than consulting the Chakra one.

Arch attracts newbies by itself. Chakra is not making it worser. This is more a "side effect" of quality and growth, just make yourself familiar with it

I am not familiar with quality and growth having popularity among beginners. Quality is something that, ideally, should make a distro popular, no matter what your experience or technological background is. Across the board, not all Linux users will think Arch provides quality - they all use different standards.
I am all too familiar with the magnetic effect that expert distros seem to have on inexperienced Linux users though - remember what Gentoo used to be? Prestige and image are powerful things; in the real world as much as online. Probably even more so online, since it's easier to keep up appearances. Don't underestimate it.

I'm not blaming you (assuming you're a Chakra dev) or other Chakra devs for this. As I said above, it's largely out of your hands.

keiichi · 2009-11-26 07:24:56

B wrote:

funkyou wrote:
I dont believe its so simple.
An excerpt from our homepage:
Although this might sound like a distro for Linux newbies, these are not our primary target audience, at least not for the moment. Chakra is made for techy people and competent GNU/Linux users with a passion for KDE, KISS and such stuff, who dont fear to get their hands dirty but want to set up a usable desktop system quickly and easily.
We can not force people to read.
Let me put it like this: if you build a Humvee, it's not meant to be driven in urban environments (in peacetime). Yet people will do it. Most people with offroad vehicles never ever see anything but paved roads. You might have different intentions, but that does not mean what you design will be used as such.
Not a single link to the Arch Forums. Now, what would a newbie do? Visit the Arch or Chakra forums?
I stand corrected . The fact alone Chakra has its own forums shows its good intentions btw. Maybe I am focusing too much on the ones that do slip through...
Also check our tools, like this one. All options are named exactly like in the config files. We are just providing another "interface" or "view" and group them together. You still need some knowledge.
You still need knowledge for Ubuntu too, as you'd need for Windows, or even Mac OS X (although that's more fool-proof). What's your point? The biggest hurdle for most noobs is the installer. There are people that run Arch for months - until the first upgrade bump comes, then they start whining because it breaks and they can't fix it.
Hmmm, maybe our last resort: A "disclaimer" in big red letters that appears before downloading Chakra, which contains the "this is a DIY distro, it is basically Arch Linux"-message (and more), to make it a bit more clear what it is about
As above - it's not your intentions, it's what people make of it . If I'd see such a thing, my reflex would be: well I'll check in with the Arch community itself, rather than consulting the Chakra one.
Arch attracts newbies by itself. Chakra is not making it worser. This is more a "side effect" of quality and growth, just make yourself familiar with it
I am not familiar with quality and growth having popularity among beginners. Quality is something that, ideally, should make a distro popular, no matter what your experience or technological background is. Across the board, not all Linux users will think Arch provides quality - they all use different standards.
I am all too familiar with the magnetic effect that expert distros seem to have on inexperienced Linux users though - remember what Gentoo used to be? Prestige and image are powerful things; in the real world as much as online. Probably even more so online, since it's easier to keep up appearances. Don't underestimate it.

You intelligently replied to him telling you! *puts on Mr.Obvious suit*

Last edited by keiichi (2009-11-26 07:25:35)

rasat · 2009-11-26 09:18:04

This type of forum discussions were the starting steps of Arch future, in the early days of Arch Linux..... "debate" between the devs and user contributors. Apeiro (Judd Vinet) rarely participated in these discussion but kept an vigilant eye what were said. Whenever he posted, he encouraged the both parties.

Apeiro (2003-08-14):
"And I agreed with what you said, beniro. The core development of Arch Linux will not be providing any "newbie-friendly" GUIs/utilities at any time in the near future. If the community deems this necessary, then the community will provide the appropriate tools, as rasat and AMLUG have shown us".
"We humble developers will continue to provide Arch as a solid base for everyone and anyone. If you guys want to make it pretty, give 'er.

Last edited by Allan (2009-11-26 09:22:41)

Arch Linux

#1 2009-11-20 11:03:16

Chakra at Distrowatch

#2 2009-11-20 11:39:05

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#3 2009-11-20 11:40:02

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#4 2009-11-23 00:47:11

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#5 2009-11-23 03:48:10

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#6 2009-11-23 04:11:57

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#7 2009-11-23 06:52:48

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#8 2009-11-23 06:58:04

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#9 2009-11-23 07:25:48

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#10 2009-11-23 09:15:52

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#11 2009-11-23 09:30:31

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#12 2009-11-23 12:05:42

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#13 2009-11-23 17:07:15

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#14 2009-11-23 19:15:37

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#15 2009-11-23 19:32:07

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#16 2009-11-23 20:21:40

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#17 2009-11-23 20:26:40

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#18 2009-11-23 23:17:11

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#19 2009-11-23 23:56:49

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#20 2009-11-24 19:29:53

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#21 2009-11-25 17:30:34

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#22 2009-11-26 00:14:44

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#23 2009-11-26 07:10:03

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#24 2009-11-26 07:24:56

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

#25 2009-11-26 09:18:04

Re: Chakra at Distrowatch

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