[SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

flyswatter · 2009-12-06 09:59:10

Hi

I've been using Arch for about a year, and I'm still pretty new to Linux and Arch. The reason I installed Arch in the first place was because of the how much control you have over your system, since you get to build it up according to your preferences. I absolutely love Arch for this and many other reasons.

The problem I have is that I am limited to 500mb bandwidth a month. I know this wrong, but I always avoid pacman -Syu because of the 500mb limit. I avoid any necessary upgrading, and only upgrade packages that need to be upgraded whenever I need to install a new package that I need. I know very well that this is the wrong thing to do, but seeing as I am limited to 500mb a month (which I already use alot of, if not all, on university stuff), I don't see how I could possibly carry out frequent system upgrades. Could anyone give me some advice? Should I not be using a rolling release distro because of this?

Last edited by flyswatter (2010-06-05 19:31:54)

Allan · 2009-12-06 10:53:07

I think that a rolling release distro may not suite you with that restriction on usage. Unless you can update while at uni...

flyswatter · 2009-12-06 12:19:37

Thanks for the reply ya I would use the net at uni...but they give us like a 150mb restriction, plus it isn't accessible from my residence.

Is there any distro that you know of similar to Arch that would suit this? I need Arch's simple and lightweight nature, the ability to build your desktop up the way you want it, keep configurations centralized in rc.conf (like network stuff, modules, daemons), and a distro that organizes packages sensibly like Arch (but doesn't necessarily have to be rolling release).

I once read somewhere about an Arch variant where upgrades are released every 6 months or something, but I don't know if that's still in development, if it even exists. Even so, I don't think that would solve my problem, because the half-yearly upgrades would probably be too big anyways. How would Slackware do?

I don't see a distro that would suit this damn 500mb cap. I'm contemplating just continuing with my usual pacman -S or pacman -Sy for new packages and upgrading those already installed if it is required (as bad as doing that is), instead of using pacman -Syu frequently

mikesd · 2009-12-06 12:20:37

Even running a very slim system, 500Mb is going to be a problem. If you can't find more bandwidth somewhere else for updates, a non rolling release distro may suit you better.

If it was me I would probably try running Debian with a couple of packages installed either form source or the testing repo.

flyswatter · 2009-12-06 12:54:46

I've been reading about "deltaRPM" features in some distro's package managers, like Fedora's Presto. Maybe I'm being stubborn, but I really don't see myself using Fedora. A deltaRPM-like feature seems to be what might suit me. Apparently Arch has xdelta, but no packages on it. Still, Arch would probably still be out of the question since it's a rolling release distro. Sigh

mikesd, ill investigate using debian and installing packages from their testing repo, thanks I still feel that something like deltaRPM would suit me better tho...

Gen2ly · 2009-12-06 12:55:06

If a few bucks isn't a problem every six months or so, I'd look at a distribution that updates their LiveCD fairly often and just have them mailed to me. Odd thing, you got there, hopefully they change that, generally schools don't make this exception because a good deal of information can be gotten from the internet nowdays.

flyswatter · 2009-12-06 13:05:47

Gen2ly, thanks , getting the updated liveCD's mailed to me would be a solution, but I wouldn't count on the reliability of mail sent to South Africa. I'll keep it as an option tho

Xyne · 2009-12-06 13:32:29

flyswatter wrote:

Gen2ly, thanks , getting the updated liveCD's mailed to me would be a solution, but I wouldn't count on the reliability of mail sent to South Africa. I'll keep it as an option tho

Isn't Canonical/Ubuntu based in South Africa? They should be able to send you live CDs reliably.

I realize that it's better than nothing, but when I heard about your bandwidth caps I raged. I wonder if it's really that expensive for your ISP to provide service where you live or if it's just a case of no competition and greedy bastards offering the bare minimum at exorbitant prices.

danielomen · 2009-12-06 13:44:59

I may be able to help though not immediately due to serious lack of time. In short..
I am in a similar situation albeit not quite as drastically limited as you are.
When i have a little more time if your interested i will make a larger post explaining everything plan wise, but i have experimented and it is fairly easy to greatly limit needed bandwidth for regular updates on a machine. but the catch is it requires a remote machine somewhere else where bandwidth isn't so much an issue (for now at least till i setup a experimental repo)

so the numbers..
simple package revision...
last lm_sensors revision update was 440,320 bytes, update reduced to 868 bytes

and more interesting with a bigger bin package, and a version change rather than revision.
virtualbox 3.0.10 to 3.0.12 was 44,738,045(archlinux.fr bzip2) reduced to 17,850,260

Basically so far its looking a small utility that is 'complimentary' (arch K.I.S.S. principle) to pacman that works from a separate repo with a slight changes to accommodate its limited bandwidth goal. that uses packages already in pacmans cache to create new ones from the diffs at a different repo so all that is needed is a simple pacman -Su after running the util

flyswatter · 2009-12-06 13:46:26

Xyne, its case 2, i can assure you Internet is not exactly cheap in South Africa (AFAIK), any SA citizen will know which company is to blame.

Yes, Ubuntu is based in South Africa, but after using Arch, I dont think I could use Ubuntu again. I know I'm being fussy, but I need something they obeys KISS principles like Arch. What I really hated about Ubuntu was the need to install *-dev or *-devel (can't remember what they are called) packages in some cases, along with the original package *, whereas in arch, you install the package and you're done. Also, I feel Ubuntu is a bit too bloated.

I'm sorry if I'm making any incorrect assumptions about Arch, Ubuntu or other distros or how they manage their packages, I'm pretty new to Linux

flyswatter · 2009-12-06 14:05:08

danielomen, that sounds really awesome

I'm willing to wait, I'll just continue using pacman the complete wrong way and fix the resulting breakages I'll keep watch for your post.

But it really does sound like a dream (440,320 to 868 bytes), (44,738,045 to 17,850,260 bytes on a version upgrade), a tool to used complementary to pacman.

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what you are saying, but from what I read, the tool will use pkg's cached locally and upgrade them using a diff downloaded from an alternative repo, where the diff was created by comparing a package upgrade to its previous package (if what I'm saying even makes sense). If that is the case, it really is an awesome solution, and seems to Keep It Simple. I have a few questions in my head, but I'll wait for your larger post. I really hope it works, and I really hope it will solve my problem. Thanks

zowki · 2009-12-07 09:24:42

You could try Debian. It kinda follows the KISS principles and allows you to build up a system from scratch. Even better is that you can purchase the big DVD/CD set which contain all the debian packages for that version. This means you will never have to download another package from the Internet again. Then when the next version of debian comes out buy the next set of DVD/CDs.

JackH79 · 2009-12-07 09:45:45

Just another hint that may help or may not.
Here in Australia I have a download limit at uni as well, but one of the Australian mirrors (aarnet) is excepted from this rule, i.e. I can download as much as I like from that address and it doesn't count towards my limit, as it is part of some kind of 'knowledge network' or some such.
Maybe you could ask at your uni whether they've got something similar in place. Best of luck.

zowki · 2009-12-07 11:12:32

JackH79 wrote:

Just another hint that may help or may not.
Here in Australia I have a download limit at uni as well, but one of the Australian mirrors (aarnet) is excepted from this rule, i.e. I can download as much as I like from that address and it doesn't count towards my limit, as it is part of some kind of 'knowledge network' or some such.
Maybe you could ask at your uni whether they've got something similar in place. Best of luck.

Thats great how your unrestricted domain turns out to be an Arch Linux mirror! Just out of curiosity, which university is this?

SanskritFritz · 2009-12-07 11:14:10

The 'delta' feature is actually already implemented in pacman, according to one of the pacman developers called ngaba. According to him it could work in a rsync similar mode. But in order to have this, a specially crafted repository is needed. I dont know if it is planned for Arch. Anyone knows about this?

flyswatter · 2009-12-07 18:58:59

Thank you for the replies I'll definitely look around for mirrors exempted from the cap at uni, I don't know if I'll be lucky enough to find an Arch mirror, but you never know.

I have read that the delta feature is already implemented. A real pity there aren't any repos for it. I think that's part of what danielomen hopes to solve.

I'm planning on sticking with Arch for another 6 months, and if I don't find a solution, like a delta feature or a mirror, I'll investigate using Debian and building up a new system during the midyear break. Really don't want to leave Arch If I didn't have the cap, pacman would be pure awesomeness

flyswatter · 2009-12-07 19:23:06

OH MY WORD!!! Ok I did a bit of simple browsing, and found something potentially awesome for my case. There are mirrors at my uni (UCT) for Arch...Gotta love Cape Town, the only two uni's in SA with Arch mirrors are in Cape Town. JackH79, thank you for that useful tip, I never even considered that. Now i just need to hope that it is exempted from the limit, and that my residence is going be connected to the UCT network next year.

Wish I could try it out now, but I'm back home for the break so I'm gonna have to leech cap off friends for now

A further question:
My residence is likely to not be connected to the UCT network next year, but the (windows...sigh) computer labs there ARE connected. They make sure you can't plug your laptop in there tho. Is there any way i could sync pacman on my laptop, find the necessary upgrades, then go to the labs with my usb stick or external and somehow wget the needed packages automatically on windows, then go back to my room and use a pacman -U * on the entire downloaded folder. That way, given that the mirror is exempted from the cap, my problem would be solved, regardless of whether my residence was connected to the network or not

Thank you

Last edited by flyswatter (2009-12-07 19:52:04)

xduugu · 2009-12-07 20:12:56

You can generate a list of URLs for all upgradeable packages by running

pacman -Sup | sed 1,2d > file

Then download the files to your usb stick, plug it into your laptop, move the packages to your cache (/var/cache/pacman/pkg by default) and finally run pacman -Su.

flyswatter · 2009-12-07 21:09:16

That's perfect

I'm going to use

 pacman -Syup | sed 1,6d > ~/updates.txt

...just to make sure the databases are refreshed first.

Thank you xduugu. I'll mark this as solved if and when I've tried out the mirror to see if is exempted from the cap and tested this. I really appreciated all the help...just another reason to stick to Arch. Once I'm a bit more knowledgeable, I'll also help out newbies like myself on the forum

JackH79 · 2009-12-08 06:49:04

@zowki

zowki wrote:
Thats great how your unrestricted domain turns out to be an Arch Linux mirror! Just out of curiosity, which university is this?

It's James Cook University in Townsville

@flyswatter
Hope it'll work out all right for you. Would be a shame to lose you to an 'enemy distros' , just because of bandwidth restrictions.

Last edited by JackH79 (2009-12-08 06:54:24)

syn · 2009-12-09 00:07:04

So is the public library's wifi off limits?

zowki · 2009-12-09 01:55:30

syn wrote:

So is the public library's wifi off limits?

In my country library wifi limits your download rate to 25kb/s.

mvdvarrier · 2009-12-09 13:42:47

flyswatter wrote:

Hi
I've been using Arch for about a year, and I'm still pretty new to Linux and Arch. The reason I installed Arch in the first place was because of the how much control you have over your system, since you get to build it up according to your preferences. I absolutely love Arch for this and many other reasons.
The problem I have is that I am limited to 500mb bandwidth a month. I know this wrong, but I always avoid pacman -Syu because of the 500mb limit. I avoid any necessary upgrading, and only upgrade packages that need to be upgraded whenever I need to install a new package that I need. I know very well that this is the wrong thing to do, but seeing as I am limited to 500mb a month (which I already use alot of, if not all, on university stuff), I don't see how I could possibly carry out frequent system upgrades. Could anyone give me some advice? Should I not be using a rolling release distro because of this?

Hai friend
I recommend slackware or slackware based vector linux. I installed them in my computer and the upgrade even after weeks only need below 50 mb to download. You can even lock packages you do not want to upgrade thus minimizing stuff to download. The operating system is very stable and consumes less computer resources. I tried them successfully in my dial up connection days
wish you good luck
mvdvarrier

flyswatter · 2009-12-09 16:50:34

@JackH79

Hope it'll work out all right for you. Would be a shame to lose you to an 'enemy distros' , just because of bandwidth restrictions.

Thank you. Don't worry, getting me off Arch is not gonna be easy

@syn

So is the public library's wifi off limits?

hmm...getting to the public library would be troublesome. I doubt most public libraries here have wifi anyways The uni library, as well as the rest of campus, gives us access to internet via wifi, but it has a ridiculous 150mb cap. Luckily, downloads on the uni network are unlimited, and I have a good feeling the Arch mirror is on the uni network. I'll just have to wait and see.

@mvdvarrier
Thank you. I was thinking about using Slackware, and it really helps knowing that the updates are small. I feel that I have found the solution because of my uni's arch mirror, but if that and all other attempts to stick to Arch fails, I think that sounds like a great plan B Still gonna try my best to keep Arch, I haven't used many distro's (Ubuntu, slight tinkering on a Fedora based distro...and Puppy Linux, Slax Frodo and ttylinux if tiny live distros count), but I really do like Arch's way of doing things.

Last edited by flyswatter (2009-12-09 16:51:39)

Arch Linux

#1 2009-12-06 09:59:10

[SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#2 2009-12-06 10:53:07

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#3 2009-12-06 12:19:37

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#4 2009-12-06 12:20:37

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#5 2009-12-06 12:54:46

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#6 2009-12-06 12:55:06

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#7 2009-12-06 13:05:47

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#8 2009-12-06 13:32:29

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#9 2009-12-06 13:44:59

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#10 2009-12-06 13:46:26

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#11 2009-12-06 14:05:08

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#12 2009-12-07 09:24:42

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#13 2009-12-07 09:45:45

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#14 2009-12-07 11:12:32

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#15 2009-12-07 11:14:10

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#16 2009-12-07 18:58:59

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#17 2009-12-07 19:23:06

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#18 2009-12-07 20:12:56

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#19 2009-12-07 21:09:16

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#20 2009-12-08 06:49:04

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#21 2009-12-09 00:07:04

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#22 2009-12-09 01:55:30

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#23 2009-12-09 13:42:47

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

#24 2009-12-09 16:50:34

Re: [SOLVED] Pacman -Syu on a (very) limited bandwidth

Board footer