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firewalker

Member

From: Hellas (Greece).

Registered: 2006-06-05

Posts: 557

Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

quote:

One person has pointed out that Novell is in the process of removing GPL code as though it is not acceptable. From Miguel de Icaza's blog:

* MonoDevelop code is now LGPLv2 and MIT X11 licensed. We have removed all of the GPL code, allowing addins to use Apache, MS-PL code as well as allowing proprietary add-ins to be used with MonoDevelop (like RemObject's Oxygene).

So Novell has removed what Steve Ballmer called "cancer", which is the same licence that Novell and Microsoft conspired to hack. Novell's Banshee too is licensed under the MIT X11 (not just the Windows booster known as MonoDevelop). Is Novell still allergic to the GPL?

http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/24/mon … -gpl-code/

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Grazz256

Member

Registered: 2009-06-28

Posts: 69

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

So? They want people to be able to use third party addins with mono, if the gpl didn't allow this then why stick with it?

I find there is alot of paranoia among hardcore opensource advocates, not everthing is a microsoft conspiracy to destroy opensource!

*Disclaimer*
This is more of a general comment, I never actually read the source article..

skottish

Forum Fellow

From: Here

Registered: 2006-06-16

Posts: 7,942

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

So? They want people to be able to use third party addins with mono, if the gpl didn't allow this then why stick with it?

I find there is alot of paranoia among hardcore opensource advocates, not everthing is a microsoft conspiracy to destroy opensource!

No doubt. Everyone believes in freedom until someone makes the wrong choice.

some-guy94

Member

Registered: 2009-08-15

Posts: 360

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

GPL isn't actually very free.
It forces the everyone that modifies the code to redistribute it under the GPL, and include the original copyright.

BSD and MIT/X11 say, do whatever the hell you want with this, just don't blame us for anything that happens.

GPL isn't suited for everything. If X.org was under the GPL, Nvidia and ATI wouldn't be able to make proprietary drivers for it.
Same thing with glibc, if it was under the GPL, no one would be able to develop any proprietary software for linux.

Last edited by some-guy94 (2009-12-26 18:41:04)

Mandor

Member

Registered: 2006-06-06

Posts: 154

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

It is logical for a development tool to be licensed with a version of LGPL or BSD or alike, rather than GPL... The question is why it was GPL-ed in the first place...

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JohannesSM64

Member

From: Norway

Registered: 2009-10-11

Posts: 623

Website

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

If X.org was under the GPL, Nvidia and ATI wouldn't be able to make proprietary drivers for it.

ATI already opensourced their drivers.

Same thing with glibc, if it was under the GPL, no one would be able to develop any proprietary software for linux.

Yeah, that would be great.

Gen2ly

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From: Sevierville, TN

Registered: 2009-03-06

Posts: 1,529

Website

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

This Miguel de Icaza guys scares the hell out of me.  Since Spartaning the Gnome project he's since appeared to look like MS's lynchpin.  Lately he's also looks to have spearheaded thoughts in the Gnome mailing list to break from the GNU.  Though using Mono (and other proprietary-ish) software can allow quicker application development this does have an effect of free software.  Though BSD/BSD-like licenses do allow you to do 'whatever the hell you want with this' it also encourages greater fracture of projects and less cohesiveness of GNU/Linux as a whole.  In my eye, GNOME doesn't look very attractive today.

Last edited by Gen2ly (2009-12-26 20:05:49)

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JohannesSM64

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From: Norway

Registered: 2009-10-11

Posts: 623

Website

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

% p -Q|grep gnome
%

ljshap

Member

From: Ossining, NY

Registered: 2008-01-23

Posts: 160

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

So? They want people to be able to use third party addins with mono, if the gpl didn't allow this then why stick with it?

I find there is alot of paranoia among hardcore opensource advocates, not everthing is a microsoft conspiracy to destroy opensource!

"Just Because You're Paranoid Doesn't Mean They're Not Out to Get You " !!!

Maybe the Big Great Bear justs wants to talk, but if I'm Little Red Riding Hood, I'd be awfully careful.

Step 1:  Get in the door any way you can.
Step 2:  Do little favors and become entrenched in the household.
Step 3:  Play husband against wife (friend of both, enemy of both)
Step 4:  Praise and toast the dead.
Step 5:  Enjoy the spoils.

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ngoonee

Forum Fellow

From: Between Thailand and Singapore

Registered: 2009-03-17

Posts: 7,358

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

If X.org was under the GPL, Nvidia and ATI wouldn't be able to make proprietary drivers for it.

ATI already opensourced their drivers.

Same thing with glibc, if it was under the GPL, no one would be able to develop any proprietary software for linux.

Yeah, that would be great.

No it wouldn't.

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some-guy94

Member

Registered: 2009-08-15

Posts: 360

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

If X.org was under the GPL, Nvidia and ATI wouldn't be able to make proprietary drivers for it.

ATI already opensourced their drivers.

ATI released the docs, but they still have fglrx

Same thing with glibc, if it was under the GPL, no one would be able to develop any proprietary software for linux.

Yeah, that would be great.

It doesn't mean all software on linux would become opensource, it means companies would stop using linux, and instead use Windows/Apple-crap/Solaris/BSD, or glibc would be replaced with some other alternative.

Proprietary software will always exist, stopping it from working will just mean less apps that work on linux, not more opensource ones.

barzam

Member

From: Sweden

Registered: 2009-01-27

Posts: 277

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

The site quoted in the OP Boycott novell isn't very trustworthy, but fun to read I agree (eg. I read all their articles about Vista 7 as they call Windows 7, and it's fun to see Microsoft look that bad, although it's apparantly very biased). That said I feel very uncomfortable with the likes of apologists like de Icaza. Microsoft has the worst track record of trying to shut Linux down and then this doesn't work hurt the cummunity. The two ways it has done this in the past is their FUD-method (fear uncertainty and doubt) and the EEE-method (extend, embrace, exinguish).

I think that Mono is a prime example of Microsoft's methods. They share the code, but basically say "we promise not to sue anyone using the code". This spreads both FUD as users can't ever be sure of the future (if they sell the patents, good luck waving Microsoft's "community promise" in court) and may be a very good method to EEE. Bottom line, I never trust anything coming from Microsoft. They really are as "evil" as can be possible in this field. They have a nasty track record, starting with Gates' open letter from the 70's and I don't see why Mono is worth this.

GPL may have its implications (most prominently the viral part of it, that it "infects" projetcs using GPL code) but as you all know it's free to put any license on your project. If the devs feel the GPL is too intrusive, they are free to use anything else. This is a feature not a bug guys.

gajo

Member

Registered: 2008-04-01

Posts: 93

Website

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

This is a feature not a bug guys.

feature bloat

jolinfire

Member

From: France

Registered: 2007-12-21

Posts: 176

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

Mono is really a technology to skip. I have not a single mono based software on my gnome. Gnote is far more usable than tomboy anyway

Ranguvar

Member

Registered: 2008-08-12

Posts: 2,563

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

The FSF spelled out already what Microsoft should do before creating Free .NET implementations is worthwhile and safe, and I agree with them.

http://www.fsf.org/news/2009-07-mscp-mono

I trust Microsoft just fine -- I trust them, as a large corporation, to always do what they think will make them the most money.  It's what every corporation does, Microsoft is not special.
That includes beating down the notion of Free Software whenever they don't think it'll reflect badly on them.

At best, this whole thing is to spread Silverlight and such, and try to just push more Microsoft technology out where they're already so far behind (like vs Flash) they don't care if they help out GNU/Linux a bit, etc.
At worst...  well, let's hope the US Supreme Court ditches software patents _soon_.

mikesd

Member

From: Australia

Registered: 2008-02-01

Posts: 788

Website

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

...
I trust Microsoft just fine -- I trust them, as a large corporation, to always do what they think will make them the most money.  It's what every corporation does, Microsoft is not special.
That includes beating down the notion of Free Software whenever they don't think it'll reflect badly on them.

True. At the end of the day companies answer to their shareholders.

Mono is really a technology to skip. I have not a single mono based software on my gnome.

Yeah, personally I would never use C#/Mono for Linux apps. I also won't install anything that has it as a dependency.

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jolinfire

Member

From: France

Registered: 2007-12-21

Posts: 176

Re: Miguel de Icaza: "We Have Removed All of the GPL Code" (MonoDevelop)

And mono eats a "lot" of place. Runtime eats itself about 150 Mb ! So...