Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

MRennie · 2010-02-18 02:17:14

Okay, I've searched and read the wiki, but I still haven't found what I am looking for, so hopefully someone here can point me in the right direction.

I am going off of memory as I had to reboot into another distro to ask this question as my Arch isn't functional yet. So if my details are a little off, I apologize.

I am looking to find an explanation of what each package under Base Base-Dev and Other is and how it should or can be edited.

After you select packages you have to review and edit if desired. What I want to know is what each package does and how it could be edited.

I read in the wiki that packages can be unselected if not needed, but I don't know which ones I need.

I am really new to Linux on this level, I have been using Kubuntu and outgrew it pretty quick. I want to run a distro like Arch, but I want to know how it works from the very start. I can see there is a steep learning curve and I think understanding each piece will help me in the end.

I would prefer to understand what the commands I enter are as opposed to just copying and pasting commands hoping that they work.

Can someone please point me in the direction of a good book or in depth tutorial that really explains what the packages are and how they can be edited?

Thanks in advance to all those who offer advice, it is much appreciated.

-Michael

Last edited by MRennie (2010-02-18 02:18:21)

cesura · 2010-02-18 02:46:18

MRennie wrote:

Okay, I've searched and read the wiki, but I still haven't found what I am looking for, so hopefully someone here can point me in the right direction.
I am going off of memory as I had to reboot into another distro to ask this question as my Arch isn't functional yet. So if my details are a little off, I apologize.
I am looking to find an explanation of what each package under Base Base-Dev and Other is and how it should or can be edited.
After you select packages you have to review and edit if desired. What I want to know is what each package does and how it could be edited.
I read in the wiki that packages can be unselected if not needed, but I don't know which ones I need.
I am really new to Linux on this level, I have been using Kubuntu and outgrew it pretty quick. I want to run a distro like Arch, but I want to know how it works from the very start. I can see there is a steep learning curve and I think understanding each piece will help me in the end.
I would prefer to understand what the commands I enter are as opposed to just copying and pasting commands hoping that they work.
Can someone please point me in the direction of a good book or in depth tutorial that really explains what the packages are and how they can be edited?
Thanks in advance to all those who offer advice, it is much appreciated.
-Michael

I don't know if there is an official section in the wiki dedicated to it (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). You could always simply google a package name and you'll find plenty of information on it.

Another way to get familiar with linux core utils is to build your own from scratch. Linux from scratch is a great guide

As for books, http://www.amazon.com/Arch-Linux-Handbo … 127&sr=8-1 was helpful for me in the beginning.

Reading the archwiki may help as well, for other things at least

Last edited by cesura (2010-02-18 02:46:55)

fsckd · 2010-02-18 03:10:17

Hmm, it seems you are a little off on your terminology as I can't quite figure out what exactly you are asking. So here are some likely answers (and questions). Please ask more if you do not understand something or if I'm far off from the questions you are asking.

What are you using to select packages? Most people, I assume, would use pacman, a command line program. Its invocation is described in this finely crafted wiki article: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman . A brief description of popular options:
* pacman -S <package.name> - install (Synchronize) a package or a group of packages
* pacman -R <package.name> - Remove a package, but leave dependencies and certain special files (read ye olde wiki article linked above for options to remove those)
* pacman -Qi <package.name> - get information about a package
* pacman -Qg <group.name> - get the list of packages that are in a group

By edit packages do you mean modify them at the source or change how they are built? See the wiki page for ABS: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ABS . It lets you customize all your packages to your heart's content.

The best tutorial is the wiki. The best book is a printed version of the wiki (linked to by itsbrad212 above). If there is something specific in the wiki that you do not understand, feel free to ask for an explanation in this forum.

Edit: Hmm, ok, I think I understand your question now. You want to start your own distro. In that case, read Linux From Scratch as itsbrad212 suggested. It will give an in depth understanding of how a GNU/Linux system is setup. It is even better if you install an LFS system. What package managers such as pacman and its associated build system do is abstract away the harder parts and shift the labor over to the maintainers. What you probably would like to do is experience that work first hand. LFS would help you with that.

Last edited by fsckd (2010-02-18 03:19:11)

MRennie · 2010-02-18 05:16:40

fsckd wrote:

Hmm, it seems you are a little off on your terminology as I can't quite figure out what exactly you are asking. So here are some likely answers (and questions). Please ask more if you do not understand something or if I'm far off from the questions you are asking.
What are you using to select packages? Most people, I assume, would use pacman, a command line program. Its invocation is described in this finely crafted wiki article: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman . A brief description of popular options:
* pacman -S <package.name> - install (Synchronize) a package or a group of packages
* pacman -R <package.name> - Remove a package, but leave dependencies and certain special files (read ye olde wiki article linked above for options to remove those)
* pacman -Qi <package.name> - get information about a package
* pacman -Qg <group.name> - get the list of packages that are in a group
By edit packages do you mean modify them at the source or change how they are built? See the wiki page for ABS: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ABS . It lets you customize all your packages to your heart's content.
The best tutorial is the wiki. The best book is a printed version of the wiki (linked to by itsbrad212 above). If there is something specific in the wiki that you do not understand, feel free to ask for an explanation in this forum.
Edit: Hmm, ok, I think I understand your question now. You want to start your own distro. In that case, read Linux From Scratch as itsbrad212 suggested. It will give an in depth understanding of how a GNU/Linux system is setup. It is even better if you install an LFS system. What package managers such as pacman and its associated build system do is abstract away the harder parts and shift the labor over to the maintainers. What you probably would like to do is experience that work first hand. LFS would help you with that.

Not looking to start my own distro, that's a little too ambitious for me right now. I am familiar with pacman, and I wasn't referring to installing packages via pacman. I am looking to know more about the packages, or maybe they're called something else, that you choose when you first run the install of Arch. There is the base, base-dev, and then some others. I am referring to step D in the beginner's wiki: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beg … t_Packages I was looking to get a better understanding of each option in this area. I would prefer not to have packages I don't need, but I really have no clue which of these are necessary and I would like to know what each one is. Also, I would like to have a better understanding of the options in section F of the same wiki section as above where you can configure the system's base files. Are the individual options available under base, base-dev, etc outlined and explained anywhere? There's a lot of them so googling each one individually would take days.

I checked out Linux from Scratch, looks like a good read and I'll pick it up, but I think it might be more information than I need right now, at least for what I am looking to learn here. I'm think LFS is going to be my summer project. Also, is there anything in the Arch Linux handbook that isn't in the wiki or is it the same information?

EDIT: I am assuming that the package options for base and base-dev are in the repo so is there a way to know which of these packages are part of the base package and base-dev packages by searching in the repos? I tried a few basic searches, but still haven't managed to find just the base and base-dev options.

Last edited by MRennie (2010-02-18 05:22:27)

Parter · 2010-02-18 05:36:25

It doesn't sound like you're too familiar with Linux just yet, I would suggest a different distro.

MRennie · 2010-02-18 05:55:39

Parter wrote:

It doesn't sound like you're too familiar with Linux just yet, I would suggest a different distro.

You're right, I am not too familiar with Linux. I know some of the basics, but I want to know more. I am not looking to make a cold turkey switch to arch, but I would like to have it on a second machine that I could play with and get a better understanding of arch through. I have installed arch once and attained a functional OS, but I didn't really understand the pieces underneath, which is what I want to do.

fsckd · 2010-02-18 14:30:03

As long as you're willing to ask questions and learn, Arch isn't bad for you.

Anyways, base and base-dev are package groups. You can list the packages in groups using pacman -Qg which I mentioned above. Then use -Qi to learn about the individual packages. I recommend browsing upstream websites. The wiki also has articles dedicated to single packages. It might take a while, but it is better than a single paragraph to briefly describe thirty or more packages.

As far as configuration, if it takes you a few days to understand them, then it will take you a few days to understand them. No one has mastered GNU/Linux in an hour. As it is, I thought the Beginner's Guide explained the configuration options pretty well. Don't be afraid to ask specific questions.

I should add, most of a package's documentation comes with it either as a man or info page, or in /usr/share/doc/. If you have to, you should go to a package's website as many have dedicated wikis or a comprehensive user manual. Arch isn't for the weak or the lazy but if you're willing to take the time to read then it's fine for you.

Misfit138 · 2010-02-18 15:13:47

Here's an easy way to get a brief description of each package.
I also updated the guide with a bit more info, as well as the link.

drcouzelis · 2010-02-18 15:26:59

Have you finished installing Arch Linux from the CD yet? Here is my suggestion:

Install Arch Linux, including everything in the "base" and "base-devel" packages that you mentioned. After you remove the CD and boot into your fresh Arch install, it will be very easy for you to use pacman to see what packages are installed. You might be able to see the entire list of installed packages on your screen without even scrolling! (because there are so few) Also, you will be able to get info, see dependencies, remove, and add packages using pacman.

There's nothing "magical" that happens on the CD that you can't do by hand or with pacman.

Using the CD is the boring part of installation, in my opinion. After you start booting into Arch, that's when the real fun and "installation" and learning begins.

Last edited by drcouzelis (2010-02-18 19:55:40)

Bregol · 2010-02-18 17:22:03

Yeah, most of the stuff in base and base-dev groups don't take up much space and will be dependencies of other things. Usually I put on most everything in those groups. I would suggest a couple things, though, if you are trying to trim down that list of packages. First, look at what filesystems you will be using. I use ext3 right now, so i took out reiserfs stuff, jfs stuff, and i think xfs or something else like that might have been in those groups. Another thing is if you use wireless or not - if i remember right, there are a bunch of wireless drivers in the program group. Also I take out GPM, which lets you use a mouse in the console, which i do not have a whole lot of need for. But like others said, your best friend is googling the program or asking pacman what a package is. If you install more than you need, you can always trim it down later on.

MRennie · 2010-02-19 00:41:45

I think installing all the packages and then reading each man/ info page is my best option, then I can uninstall the packages I don't want/need. I am sure I could just install all the packages and be fine, but I really want to understand what it is I'm installing. Much thanks to all of you, the information provided is extremely helpful. It's reassuring to have a great forum like this to get useful information from. I'm sure dealing with newbies is frustrating sometimes, but everyone here seems really tolerant and willing to help, and that makes all the difference.

Arch Linux

#1 2010-02-18 02:17:14

Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

#2 2010-02-18 02:46:18

Re: Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

#3 2010-02-18 03:10:17

Re: Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

#4 2010-02-18 05:16:40

Re: Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

#5 2010-02-18 05:36:25

Re: Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

#6 2010-02-18 05:55:39

Re: Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

#7 2010-02-18 14:30:03

Re: Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

#8 2010-02-18 15:13:47

Re: Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

#9 2010-02-18 15:26:59

Re: Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

#10 2010-02-18 17:22:03

Re: Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

#11 2010-02-19 00:41:45

Re: Breakdown of the install process / package editing.

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