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#1 2005-02-27 09:42:27

Bazooka_Joe
Member
Registered: 2004-11-04
Posts: 14

Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

I'm running Archlinux 0.7 Wombat, using the same xorg.conf file, same fonts, anti-aliasing, font size and same KDE settings as in Vectorlinux or Mandrake but for some reason my fonts don't look as clear and smooth as in those distros.  What else should I look for on those other distros to match here on my archlinux setup so the fonts look the same?  I really like Archlinux better and want to keep using it but I'm picky about desktop fonts.  I'm using an LCD monitor at 1280x1024 @ 75mhz and the bitstream anti-aliased fonts on other Linux distros usually look as good or better than cleartype on windows xp but here on Archlinux they're looking a little funky.  I can tell they are anti-aliased (tried without it too) but they still look a little jagged and not as clear.  Thanks for any help.

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#2 2005-02-27 09:53:37

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
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Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

you are not alone. I still have weird font issues,
I have seen plenty of arch screenshots with beutiful fonts...but all I ever end up with is wonky looking fonts. I get the same results on any recent distro though. I think it has something to do with the newer freetype. Everything since FC1 was looked weird font wise, to me with my hardware at least.
*shrug*

I would search the forums and the wiki. Quite a few people have had good results with various fixes and hacks posted on the forums and/or wiki.
I think my hardware is just cursed

*waves a hand over his monitor while saying "hocus pokus"*


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#3 2005-02-27 23:38:21

Bazooka_Joe
Member
Registered: 2004-11-04
Posts: 14

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

Thanks.  I'm guessing it has to do with freetype2 bytecode interpreter, how freetype is compiled and used by arch or some other font config files I haven't checked that are different on those other distros.  The way these fonts are displaying is no problem on crt monitor but on lcd they look ugly.

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#4 2005-02-28 01:07:08

dp
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From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,363
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Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

maybe you already do so ... but repeating doesn't hurt ... check this 2 things:

1)        in your x-settings check that you specify a DisplaySize in Section Monitor: (value in milimeters width height)

Section "Monitor"
  Option       "CalcAlgorithm" "CheckDesktopGeometry"
  DisplaySize  305 230
...

2)       make sure you have a configured /etc/fonts/local.conf  and that it at least has something like this:

...
         <match target="pattern">
                 <edit name="dpi" mode="assign"><double>132</double></edit>
         </match>
...

where the number is the dpi value of your display (i have a 15" display with 1600x1200 pixel -> 132 dpi)

having this set, i never had any issues with fonts on any linux


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#5 2005-02-28 02:50:07

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
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Posts: 4,615
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Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

how do you determine your display size and proper dpi?


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#6 2005-02-28 10:09:48

lanrat
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2003-10-28
Posts: 1,274

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=6626
You need to measure it with a ruler :-) You should measure your "visible" part of the screen (like the size of your wallpaper in inches or mm). I also used my crt user manual to find out the exact size in mm (I have visible size maximized - no black borders). It's better to have square dpi (e.g. 96x96) - you can use for example oo spreadsheet goalseek function to find "adjusted" size for xorg.conf :-) And don't forget to calculate dpi for your resolution that you use most of the time.

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#7 2005-02-28 10:18:31

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
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Posts: 4,615
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Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

*passes hand slowly over his head*

I just yanked the values out of the one setup that I am happy with..and got the following

displaysize 360 270

using xdpyinfo gave me
72x72

*scratches head*
Seems like dpi should be higher on my 19" crt, but I guess not.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#8 2005-02-28 10:24:19

lanrat
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2003-10-28
Posts: 1,274

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

cactus wrote:

using xdpyinfo gave me
72x72

*scratches head*
Seems like dpi should be higher on my 19" crt, but I guess not.

It depends on the resolution you're using. I have a 19" crt too but with 1600x1200 it gives me 111x111 dpi.

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#9 2005-02-28 19:21:52

qwerty
Member
Registered: 2004-12-17
Posts: 183

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

Have u tryed with:

startx -- -dpi 100

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#10 2005-02-28 19:25:46

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

Bazooka_Joe wrote:

I'm running Archlinux 0.7 Wombat, using the same xorg.conf file, same fonts, anti-aliasing, font size and same KDE settings as in Vectorlinux or Mandrake but for some reason my fonts don't look as clear and smooth as in those distros.  What else should I look for on those other distros to match here on my archlinux setup so the fonts look the same?  I really like Archlinux better and want to keep using it but I'm picky about desktop fonts.  I'm using an LCD monitor at 1280x1024 @ 75mhz and the bitstream anti-aliased fonts on other Linux distros usually look as good or better than cleartype on windows xp but here on Archlinux they're looking a little funky.  I can tell they are anti-aliased (tried without it too) but they still look a little jagged and not as clear.  Thanks for any help.

add, in /etc/fonts/local.conf

<!-- Use the Autohinter -->
<match target="pattern">
   <edit name="autohint" mode="assign">
      <bool>true</bool>
   </edit>
</match>

to turn off the bytecode interpreter - I think that's what you're looking for...

alot of distros don't compile in the bytecode interpreter...

for the record, the bytecode interpreter is owned and licensed by Apple, and using it means you need to pay them money... that's why I do not enable mine on my system....

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#11 2005-02-28 19:30:05

Bazooka_Joe
Member
Registered: 2004-11-04
Posts: 14

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

Thank you all for the suggestions.  This forum truly kicks butt - even more reason to stay with this distro.

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#12 2005-02-28 21:11:02

xerxes2
Member
From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

this is a must for LCD

<match target="font">
                <edit name="rgba" mode="assign">
                        <const>rgb</const>
                </edit>
    </match>

arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#13 2005-02-28 21:13:55

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

here... check this out (goto the Goodies section unless you care about background info):
http://wiki2.archlinux.org/index.php/XO … figuration

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#14 2005-02-28 21:34:58

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

phrak..you should add the dpi thing, and the monitor displaysize thing to that wiki.
It will make it even more complete..


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#15 2005-02-28 21:44:33

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

cactus wrote:

phrak..you should add the dpi thing, and the monitor displaysize thing to that wiki.
It will make it even more complete..

done

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#16 2005-03-02 07:56:10

Bazooka_Joe
Member
Registered: 2004-11-04
Posts: 14

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

Thanks again to all the help.  Those settings really made a huge difference.  The fonts couldn't look anymore clearer.  I think Bitstream Vera Serif looks great on LCD monitors; will try some Windows XP fonts too.

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#17 2005-03-02 15:50:10

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

Bazooka_Joe wrote:

Thanks again to all the help.  Those settings really made a huge difference.  The fonts couldn't look anymore clearer.  I think Bitstream Vera Serif looks great on LCD monitors; will try some Windows XP fonts too.

just for the record, what hints did you use?

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#18 2005-03-04 16:34:56

Bazooka_Joe
Member
Registered: 2004-11-04
Posts: 14

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

I used what you posted before:

<!-- Use the Autohinter -->
<match target="pattern">
   <edit name="autohint" mode="assign">
      <bool>true</bool>
   </edit>
</match>

and also the other settings posted.

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#19 2005-03-06 01:15:32

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

hmmm, can you post some screenshots (imageshack) so I can see what you're talking about...

most likely, I would suggest getting the bitstream and MS fonts from pacman and then trying again...

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#20 2005-03-06 07:43:20

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

hmmm the firefox fonts i'm not sure... about konsole it appears it doesn't like unicode fonts (fonts which use 16bit chars instead of 8bit) - they put an extra blank after each character... try different fonts or something like aterm/xterm/rxvt

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#21 2005-03-06 11:18:19

IceRAM
Member
From: Bucharest, Romania
Registered: 2004-03-04
Posts: 772
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

Regarding firefox fonts, try changing autohint to false in /etc/fonts/local.conf. I'm not sure if that works though.

About the fonts in konsole, what appears there is not an extra blank character, but a badly rendered font. See the width of the "cursor character" on the 2nd line. That's the default font, if I'm not mistaken. I always change the font to something else in konsole because it looks bad.

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#22 2005-03-06 18:57:52

xirus
Member
Registered: 2002-12-01
Posts: 113

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

same here, thx IceRam

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#23 2005-03-06 19:36:26

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

some have problems with autohinted fonts, but I think they look great...

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#24 2005-03-07 16:01:28

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

eissimuf wrote:

Are you using an LCD or CRT monitor?

both - though it looks best on my laptop

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#25 2005-03-07 20:19:41

beniro
Member
From: St. Petersburg, FL, USA
Registered: 2002-12-31
Posts: 312

Re: Same X fonts w/ same settings look worse than other distros

phrakture wrote:

some have problems with autohinted fonts, but I think they look great...

I know...it's funny how people will call the autohint=true fonts "horrible" while others call the autohint=false fonts "awful".

I like them both fine...I have autohint off at the moment, though.

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