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#1 2010-03-26 14:11:59

bzzzzz
Member
Registered: 2010-03-26
Posts: 8

Problem at the very start

Hi, I'm a complete newb with arch linux so this may be a brief stay for me.  However I've heard such good things about arch that I'm going to give it a good stab and see if I can learn something.

Anyway my main problem is that I can't boot up arch linux after (i think) i installed it yesterday. 

My situation is that I have 1 150GB harddrive with several different distro's on different partitions.  I'm hoping to have arch on the last partition. 

hda1 is xp
hda2 is ubuntu hardy
hda3 is extended partition
hda4 is blank
hda5 is swap
hda6 is linus mint gloria
hda7 swap
hda8 boot (for arch)
hda9 swap (for arch)
hda10 mount (for arch)

When installing arch it seemed to want 3 different partitions for swap, boot and mount so i used gparted and created the three partitions and then allocated them when installing archlinux.

Linux Mint 8 is the distro with the masterboot record and it's the linux mint splash screen that I get when I turn on the computer. 

As linux mint 8 uses GRUB2 I could not see any of the arch distro's until I ran "sudo grub-update" inside a terminal in linux mint.  Although I now get the opportunity to install archlinux in the menu, when I select it, it says that it can't be found.

Any ideas will be very gratefully received.

Thanks

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#2 2010-03-26 14:51:55

benbrick
Member
Registered: 2010-01-05
Posts: 1

Re: Problem at the very start

I think you can install grub or grub4dos (not grub 2.0) to boot arch and another linux an xp. Grub and grub4dos is easier than grub2.Only need to edit the file "menu.lst"

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#3 2010-03-26 15:03:53

synorgy
Member
From: $HOME
Registered: 2005-07-11
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Problem at the very start

Honestly, it might be easier to ask on the Linux Mint forums. Very few users here use grub2 since it's non-standard in an Archlinux install. It sounds to me that you have grub pointed to the wrong partition, though you never mention editing anything by hand, so I'm not sure it's your fault per se. If you would like to continue here, boot into Linux Mint and please post the output of 'fdisk /dev/sda', 'cat /boot/grub/grub.cfg', and 'cat /etc/grub.d/40_custom'. I'm not sure if I'll be any help, but at least there will be some more information in the thread.


If you're not too tied to the Linux Mint installation of GRUB2, you could probably overwrite the MBR with Arch's version and edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to reflect the partition information you've supplied above. This isn't as easy to update if you constantly swap out distributions, though.


"Unix is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity." (Dennis Ritchie)

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#4 2010-03-26 16:30:21

perbh
Member
From: Republic of Texas
Registered: 2005-03-04
Posts: 765

Re: Problem at the very start

It seems that grub/grub2 causes an awful lot of problems for people trying different distros or migrating from windows - and it could be ever so easy ...
1) do not make a seperate partition for boot (I know arch complains, but it will let you do without)
2) all you need is _one_ swap partition that can be shared by the different distros
3) use one small 'grub'-partition to boot them all - ie a 50 MB partition with only grub installed on it - also, let this grub use the MBR (use any one grub (not grub2) from some live cd)
4) let each distro install its own grub - on the first sector of the _root_ filesystem

Seeing you want several distros, I would_not_ operate with more than one partition (ie the root filesystem) for each distro.
Instead use a seperate partition for your personal files - seperate from each distro. (and do not call it /home or the dot-files will interfer with each other)

Now - edit the menu.lst for the 'grub'-partitition by chainloading to the different distro's - something like this:

default 0
timeout 10
title distro #1
  root (hd0,2)
  chainloader +1
title distro #2
  root (hd0,5)
  chainloader +1

etc etc etc

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#5 2010-03-26 16:45:49

spoovy
Member
From: Vatican XII
Registered: 2010-03-23
Posts: 32

Re: Problem at the very start

isn't there a 4 - max chainload limit if you do that?

(thats' what has always stopped me doing it)

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#6 2010-03-26 17:26:54

bzzzzz
Member
Registered: 2010-03-26
Posts: 8

Re: Problem at the very start

Thanks for the help.  Quite a few people on the ubuntu forums seem to think that grub2 is the way things will go so its worth getting used to it sooner rather than later. 

I may well try and convert back to grub if all else fails.  Anyway I tried as synorgy said and this is what i got back

 fdisk /dev/sda

Unable to open /dev/sda
pcurati@quartz ~ $ cat /boot/grub/grub.cfg
#
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
#
# It is automatically generated by /usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig using templates
# from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub
#

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
if [ -s /boot/grub/grubenv ]; then
  have_grubenv=true
  load_env
fi
set default="0"
if [ ${prev_saved_entry} ]; then
  saved_entry=${prev_saved_entry}
  save_env saved_entry
  prev_saved_entry=
  save_env prev_saved_entry
fi
insmod ext2
set root=(hd0,6)
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 49e2a13b-bd72-4c08-ade5-cf787fb5db18
if loadfont /usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2 ; then
  set gfxmode=640x480
  insmod gfxterm
  insmod vbe
  if terminal_output gfxterm ; then true ; else
    # For backward compatibility with versions of terminal.mod that don't
    # understand terminal_output
    terminal gfxterm
  fi
fi
if [ ${recordfail} = 1 ]; then
  set timeout=-1
else
  set timeout=10
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ###
set menu_color_normal=white/black
set menu_color_highlight=black/white
### END /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/06_mint_theme ###
insmod ext2
set root=(hd0,6)
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 49e2a13b-bd72-4c08-ade5-cf787fb5db18
insmod png
if background_image /boot/grub/linuxmint.png ; then
  set color_normal=white/black
  set color_highlight=white/light-gray
else
  set menu_color_normal=white/black
  set menu_color_highlight=white/light-gray
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/06_mint_theme ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###
menuentry "Linux Mint 8 Helena, linux 2.6.31-14-generic (/dev/sda6)" {
        recordfail=1
        if [ -n ${have_grubenv} ]; then save_env recordfail; fi
    set quiet=1
    insmod ext2
    set root=(hd0,6)
    search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 49e2a13b-bd72-4c08-ade5-cf787fb5db18
    linux    /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-14-generic root=UUID=49e2a13b-bd72-4c08-ade5-cf787fb5db18 ro   quiet splash
    initrd    /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-14-generic
}
menuentry "Linux Mint 8 Helena, linux 2.6.31-14-generic (recovery mode)" {
        recordfail=1
        if [ -n ${have_grubenv} ]; then save_env recordfail; fi
    insmod ext2
    set root=(hd0,6)
    search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 49e2a13b-bd72-4c08-ade5-cf787fb5db18
    linux    /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-14-generic root=UUID=49e2a13b-bd72-4c08-ade5-cf787fb5db18 ro single 
    initrd    /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-14-generic
}
### END /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ###
menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+)" {
    linux16    /boot/memtest86+.bin
}
menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+, serial console 115200)" {
    linux16    /boot/memtest86+.bin console=ttyS0,115200n8
}
### END /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###
menuentry "Microsoft Windows XP Professional (on /dev/sda1)" {
    insmod ntfs
    set root=(hd0,1)
    search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set d084745884744350
    drivemap -s (hd0) ${root}
    chainloader +1
}
menuentry "Arch Linux (on /dev/sda10)" {
    insmod ext2
    set root=(hd0,8)
    search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 30fcb213-6b21-42bf-af67-ef47c6d6f63c
    linux /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/sda10 ro
    initrd /kernel26.img
}
menuentry "Arch Linux Fallback (on /dev/sda10)" {
    insmod ext2
    set root=(hd0,8)
    search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 30fcb213-6b21-42bf-af67-ef47c6d6f63c
    linux /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/sda10 ro
    initrd /kernel26-fallback.img
}
menuentry "Hardy (on /dev/sda2)" {
    insmod ext2
    set root=(hd0,2)
    search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 7ac2330e-e0ff-4b26-8975-47ac8fe3f9ae
    linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-24-generic root=UUID=7ac2330e-e0ff-4b26-8975-47ac8fe3f9ae ro quiet splash
    initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-24-generic
}
### END /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/40_custom ###
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries.  Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment.  Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.
### END /etc/grub.d/40_custom ###
pcurati@quartz ~ $ cat /etc/grub.d/40_custom
#!/bin/sh
exec tail -n +3 $0
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries.  Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment.  Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.
pcurati@quartz ~ $

Last edited by bzzzzz (2010-03-26 20:03:20)

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#7 2010-03-26 18:18:55

Misfit138
Misfit Emeritus
From: USA
Registered: 2006-11-27
Posts: 4,189

Re: Problem at the very start

Please fix your post by using [ code ] tags. Thanks.

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#8 2010-03-26 18:43:23

bzzzzz
Member
Registered: 2010-03-26
Posts: 8

Re: Problem at the very start

I will - but I'm not sure what you mean?

What are code [tags]?

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#9 2010-03-26 18:56:05

synorgy
Member
From: $HOME
Registered: 2005-07-11
Posts: 272
Website

Re: Problem at the very start

What you should do is place the tag [ code ] and [ /code ] (without the spaces) around the output you posted here.

From what I can see, it looks like you might be having problems with partition numbering because of the extended partition and the blank partition. You might try playing with the values in the section reading 'Archlinux (on /dev/sda10)' but you'll need to understand how grub handles partition numbering (explained in the wiki page for grub).


"Unix is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity." (Dennis Ritchie)

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#10 2010-03-26 20:04:26

bzzzzz
Member
Registered: 2010-03-26
Posts: 8

Re: Problem at the very start

have i got the tags right now?

i'm reading about grub right now

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#11 2010-03-28 01:48:35

perbh
Member
From: Republic of Texas
Registered: 2005-03-04
Posts: 765

Re: Problem at the very start

spoovy wrote:

isn't there a 4 - max chainload limit if you do that?

(thats' what has always stopped me doing it)

Not as far as I know - I have had 6 chainloads at some point.

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#12 2010-03-28 03:19:22

fsckd
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2009-06-15
Posts: 4,173

Re: Problem at the very start

I have not understood why people chainload other linux installs instead of booting directly, if anyone could explain for me. Thanks.


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#13 2010-03-28 03:56:12

perbh
Member
From: Republic of Texas
Registered: 2005-03-04
Posts: 765

Re: Problem at the very start

fsckd wrote:

I have not understood why people chainload other linux installs instead of booting directly, if anyone could explain for me. Thanks.

It just makes life a lot easier - each distro is completely contained in each own partition. Any kernel updates will be correctly set up in the local /boot - and seeing you are chainloading - you don't even have to think about it - its all done for you - automagically!
Honestly - I can't see a single good reason for _not_ doing it this way if you choose to have more than one distro onboard. I usually use a timeout of 10 secs for the 'master' grub, and then 1 or 2 secs for the different distros. That way it doesn't seem obtrusive and you still have time to intercept the boot process.
But each to his or her own ...

[edit]
Also - you dont have to worry about grub/grub2 interactions - which seems to be a problem for many multi-distro users. Personally I think grub2 is one gigantic step backwards though it does have the ability to boot off an iso-image. If grub could do that - I'd never even look at grub2 - and .. I cant honestly understand why the big issue with iso-images ... all you need to do is to do some kind of chainloading to isolinux or syslinux - surely, that is not an unsurmountable problem? Not even grub2 does this, you need to know the kernel/initrd and where they are placed in the image ...
But I disgress - and I apologize to 'bzzzz' for kind-of hijacking his thread.

Last edited by perbh (2010-03-28 04:03:48)

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#14 2010-03-28 15:35:02

lasu1
Member
Registered: 2010-02-10
Posts: 83

Re: Problem at the very start

Hey, forgive me for starting simply; but, I once had a very similar problem.

I know this might seem ridiculous, but did you install grub to arch's root? When I started with Arch, I had Mint installed (I still do, actually, although it's now on a tiny partition wink ) Anyway, I used update-grub and Arch wouldn't boot without grub being installed in Arch (seems elementary, I know, but at the time I didn't.)

Once I installed grub to Arch's root I could then use Debian's update-grub function to correctly boot into Arch.

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#15 2010-03-29 00:18:03

spoovy
Member
From: Vatican XII
Registered: 2010-03-23
Posts: 32

Re: Problem at the very start

I agree with perbh - it does make more sense to have grub installed for each partition, then a master grub in the MBR.   I honestly always thought that there was a 4 -chainload limit.  I don't know where i got that from though.

Guess what i'll be doing this weekend..

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#16 2010-03-29 01:10:47

Misfit138
Misfit Emeritus
From: USA
Registered: 2006-11-27
Posts: 4,189

Re: Problem at the very start

bzzzzz wrote:

Thanks for the help.  Quite a few people on the ubuntu forums seem to think that grub2 is the way things will go so its worth getting used to it sooner rather than later...

GRUB2 seems like a great big mess to me. It seems like a couple of tripping baboons designed it; everything is as  unfamiliar, overly complex and asinine as one could possibly conceive. Rather than building upon GRUB legacy's familiar methodology, it was completely rewritten to barely resemble the original. sad

AFAIAC, I wouldn't mind keeping GRUB legacy indefinitely because there is nothing I need that it can't do.

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#17 2010-04-04 14:52:51

bzzzzz
Member
Registered: 2010-03-26
Posts: 8

Re: Problem at the very start

Lots of interesting comments in this thread but I really need a back to basics instruction.

From what I've understood I need to make sure that my MBR is using grub.  I can then boot up all the other distro's by making sure that I've edited the menu.lst file.  Arch will then be able to boot from that as well.

Can someone simply explain how I do this.

Thanks

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