Suggestion for timing of new install image

bladesonfire · 2010-04-06 08:59:02

I'd like to propose a new rule for when new install images are created: whenever a core package needs manual intervention to update. This will be in conjunction with the current release cycle rules, so whichever rules come first. Why? When someone is first introduced to Arch Linux and their KISS policy, what's one of the first things they do from a clean install? "pacman -Syu", which fails because updating a package requires manual intervention. That doesn't seem like KISS to me.

And honestly, I'm too lazy to type "rm /usr/bin/{view,rview}" for every new install. Yes, I understand I shouldn't be reinstalling as much as I do, but so are the woes that happens when you have to send in your laptop for repairs or bringing home a new computer.

Anyone agree?

Also, where can I find when new install images are created? It would be nice if the latest kernel was the same, as well. For example, It's annoying to have my network card not work during installation, but will after I'm able to update, or vice versa with a working card during installation that was somehow broken in a later kernel.

Allan · 2010-04-06 10:29:09

I think it is good for new users to learn what is expected from Arch.

Anyway, there is a release engineering mailing list. Link to details is on the main page. You will find the total people actively working on new images is close to 1...

rubend · 2010-04-06 11:33:34

I agree.

Other option: during / after the installation give a short mention of where to get help and what sites you should regularly check. Give a warning that some installations might break at update and give links to the fixes. ---> maximum learning potential
Maybe just put it in the beginners guide on the wiki.

Doing nothing will just frustrate beginners and drive them away.

Allan · 2010-04-06 11:49:59

rubend wrote:

Doing nothing will just frustrate beginners and drive them away.

That is fine... if they do not want to look for a solution themselves (to something this minor), then sending them somewhere else is not a bad thing.

Profjim · 2010-04-06 13:17:49

For your own use, using archiso-git (don't use extra/archiso, it's way out of date) to make your own images is a piece of cake. I dragged my feet a long time about learning it because I thought it would be complicated. But in fact it's really easy to generate your own up-to-date ISOs. Read the wiki pages on building packages in a chroot, on archiso, and read the arch-releng mailing list.

But this won't help newcomers to the distro, true.

Anikom15 · 2010-04-06 15:44:07

I think the beginner's guide is what needs fixin'.

flamelab · 2010-04-06 15:47:47

Anikom15 wrote:

I think the beginner's guide is what needs fixin'.

Register to the wiki and fix it.

Since you say it needs fixing.

Last edited by flamelab (2010-04-06 15:48:06)

wonder · 2010-04-06 15:56:59

bladesonfire wrote:

And honestly, I'm too lazy to type "rm /usr/bin/{view,rview}" for every new install. Yes, I understand I shouldn't be reinstalling as much as I do, but so are the woes that happens when you have to send in your laptop for repairs or bringing home a new computer.
Anyone agree?
.

if you are really lazy why using a core installation rather than netinstall?

Spacenick · 2010-04-06 16:09:33

Maybe there should be an explicit warning, that they are using a Linux version for power users and anyone willing to learn

Profjim · 2010-04-06 17:57:31

Spacenick wrote:

Maybe there should be an explicit warning, that they are using a Linux version for power users and anyone willing to learn

Perhaps that's already said in the FAQ or Beginner's Guide. Even if it's not, I find it incredible that someone could find out enough about Arch to get the install materials ready and not have already read claims to that effect five or ten times.

pseudonomous · 2010-04-06 18:04:02

Spacenick wrote:

Maybe there should be an explicit warning, that they are using a Linux version for power users and anyone willing to learn

This is already in the FAQ, and is hinted at in the beginner's guide as well; the current system is good, if you can't figure out how to install it, then you won't use it. I was not a very experienced linux user when I began using Arch, and I'm still nothing like an expert; the bar to entry is not so much a level of expertise, but the ability to read documentation.

bladesonfire · 2010-04-07 05:19:15

Allan, if it's only ~one person, no need to bother. I didn't realize how many people were working on releases.

Thanks, Profjim. I will need to take a closer look at the archiso this weekend. Learn so much.

wonder, I actually use core out of habit. Sometimes the onboard networking doesn't work on install and I already have the core image downloaded, so I can just stick in my USB stick and dd. You're right, though, need to gt that net image.

After looking at my post when I was more awake, it's not really a KISS issue but more of how Arch sets itself up for a first impression. I agree with you guys, though. I wouldn't want these forums to turn into a clone of the Ubuntu forums. Anyone who's willing to stick this distro out and understand there's no flawless OS will find something special in Arch like we all have. I used the word flawless instead of perfect because even though there are some flaws, Arch just feels perfect for me.

Thanks for letting me get something off my chest and learning more about Arch along the way

Surgat_ · 2010-04-07 11:47:19

bladesonfire wrote:

wonder, I actually use core out of habit. Sometimes the onboard networking doesn't work on install and I already have the core image downloaded, so I can just stick in my USB stick and dd. You're right, though, need to gt that net image.

Did you realize that you can do a net install with the core cd? You just have to select http/ftp as the source of your packages.

bladesonfire · 2010-04-07 14:24:40

Surgat_ wrote:

bladesonfire wrote:
wonder, I actually use core out of habit. Sometimes the onboard networking doesn't work on install and I already have the core image downloaded, so I can just stick in my USB stick and dd. You're right, though, need to gt that net image.
Did you realize that you can do a net install with the core cd? You just have to select http/ftp as the source of your packages.

...

Arch Linux

#1 2010-04-06 08:59:02

Suggestion for timing of new install image

#2 2010-04-06 10:29:09

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#3 2010-04-06 11:33:34

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#4 2010-04-06 11:49:59

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#5 2010-04-06 13:17:49

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#6 2010-04-06 15:44:07

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#7 2010-04-06 15:47:47

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#8 2010-04-06 15:56:59

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#9 2010-04-06 16:09:33

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#10 2010-04-06 17:57:31

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#11 2010-04-06 18:04:02

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#12 2010-04-07 05:19:15

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#13 2010-04-07 11:47:19

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

#14 2010-04-07 14:24:40

Re: Suggestion for timing of new install image

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