Arch Linux customers

bangkok_manouel · 2010-04-09 13:09:57

yes, you know, the one you see more and more often on this board, the one who makes hostile threads after a huge rebuild because his machine is OMFG TOTALLY F****ED I HATE YOU ARCH DEVELOPERS. more and more, i wonder how developers still can keep the faith and continue giving their time (huge amount, just see arch-dev ML to understand) when receiving such reactions. not a very useful thread i'm opening here, i admit. but i don't care anyway, this makes me sick and i said it. oh, lastly, did i mention i rarely have any issue on four machines running [testing]... arch developers, i understand you are also doing this for you but i really admire you when you come into the place this board has become. anyway, as far as i'm concerned, it's a thank you that i have to give today.

a satisified customer.

lifeafter2am · 2010-04-09 13:17:01

I agree completely. I've never had a system break on Arch, and I have (at various times) run 4 of them. Keep up the great work devs, you are making a killer distro!

evot · 2010-04-09 14:39:28

Jep.. Arch is a great distro..

But maybe it's not for everyone. So if you don't like it, don't use it.

I think Arch do have lots of happy "customers" around here.
Maintaining of Arch is nicely handled.

seenxu · 2010-04-09 15:08:14

both of my home server and vps are using archlinux, don't have any problems so far. it's easy to install and easy to use.

Last edited by seenxu (2010-04-09 15:09:39)

loafer · 2010-04-09 18:31:49

Yep... just updated 56 packages including the kernel. No problems at all, sterling effort!

ataraxia · 2010-04-09 18:52:41

The only time I break things is when I do something (on purpose) that's dangerous and likely to cause trouble. Then I fix it myself. 95% of trouble people have running Arch appears to be self-caused. Those are also the loudest complainers. Lately, I've been seriously considering leaving this community (while still using the distro itself). Whatever happened to the "old" Arch community, where it was basically "Know what you're doing or GTFO"? It used to be that Arch was what you ran if you knew enough to roll your own distro, but were too lazy. Now it's apparently for people who hear somewhere how good it is, and then show up expecting to be hand-held, often abusing the devs and TUs when that doesn't happen.

lifeafter2am · 2010-04-09 19:11:02

ataraxia wrote:

The only time I break things is when I do something (on purpose) that's dangerous and likely to cause trouble. Then I fix it myself. 95% of trouble people have running Arch appears to be self-caused. Those are also the loudest complainers. Lately, I've been seriously considering leaving this community (while still using the distro itself). Whatever happened to the "old" Arch community, where it was basically "Know what you're doing or GTFO"? It used to be that Arch was what you ran if you knew enough to roll your own distro, but were too lazy. Now it's apparently for people who hear somewhere how good it is, and then show up expecting to be hand-held, often abusing the devs and TUs when that doesn't happen.

LOL! This makes me think of a whole topic of discussion back in 2003-2004 on the Gentoo forums about genkernel (a program to free people from compiling their own kernels). All people who knew what they were doing hated the idea, and most of the argument was based on this exact same topic. People who don't know what they are doing are more likely to come over and want their hands held and complain when stuff breaks.

Personally, I agree, and it's one of the reasons I left the Gentoo community long before I left the distro behind.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind helping people ... but there is a limit and people should try to find a solution on their own first. IMO Linux is a learning experience.

Last edited by lifeafter2am (2010-04-09 19:12:12)

ga01f4733 · 2010-04-09 19:25:07

KISS the developer or not, that's it , isn't it?

Last edited by ga01f4733 (2010-04-09 19:26:05)

Rumor · 2010-04-09 19:55:50

bangkok_manouel wrote:

a satisified customer.

Well and very timely posted!

Peasantoid · 2010-04-09 20:10:19

ataraxia wrote:

95% of trouble people have running Arch appears to be self-caused. Those are also the loudest complainers.

This. I imagine the loudness is an attempt to drown out the nagging suspicion that maybe it was the complainer's own fault.

Also, inexperienced users are more likely to complain simply because they don't understand the flow of Arch. Things break from time to time, but it's rarely the devs' fault. Well, most of the devs - Allan, I'm looking at you.

Meyithi · 2010-04-09 20:26:07

I've been playing with linux for a long time, but only since using Arch do I know (well, have an idea) of what's going on.

>>>I<<< break my stystem often, but it's no biggie, I've learnt a little bit more from every re-install and it only takes an hour or so. You can't have a bleeding edge without blood

Cyrusm · 2010-04-09 20:34:10

I completely agree! any time my system has been down, it's because I did (or didn't) do something I was supposed to do (like merge .pacnew files ). The Arch team isn't here to hold your hand! a "competent Linux user" is expected to try to find an answer for themselves, not get pissed when one isn't handed to them. If you come into the forums/irc asking intelligent questions after having researched the problem they are more than happy to help where they can. I would say that >90% of the problems I've had have been solved before and are documented in the forums/wiki/google.

satisfied_customers++;

tomk · 2010-04-09 20:44:37

bangkok_manouel wrote:

...hostile threads after a huge rebuild because his machine is OMFG TOTALLY F****ED I HATE YOU ARCH DEVELOPERS

IME you're exaggerating, in relation to this upgrade anyway. I haven't seen anything that approximates to that kind of reaction, but I have seen a good few users caught by partially-synced mirrors, and others who brought trouble on themselves in various ways. I'm not looking for examples of these hostile posts, btw - just offering an alternative perspective.

Your support for Arch and the devs is always welcome, of course.

franzrogar · 2010-04-09 20:47:44

What I can say... Arch64 is the best distro I've ever run.

Also, as ataraxia said: "Know what you're doing or GTFO" was a good approach, but I'd change the "GTFO" for a new branded "ASAP-{RTFM||GTFO}".

Anyway, I knew what kind of distro I was running "before" doing so (btw, I felt in Heaven when I saw a ncurses installation, I thought it'd be more "à la" Gentoo).

Having said this, if a user insults a dev... ban for a week. If he/she strikes back... GTFO-Forever Edition.

ngoonee · 2010-04-10 00:16:19

I think one of the basic problems is that a lot of users just provide direct answers to these sort of posts.

Timeline goes something like this:-

1. User A posts an inane question which could be simply solved with google/wiki.
2. User Z (long-time user/dev/moderator) reads the thread, realizes the OP did not search, and ignores it.
3. User B, C, and D (who've been using Arch for a couple of months and have maybe 50-200 posts) jump in with helpful answers which solve the immediate problem but not the help vampire tendencies (no, I'm not providing a link to 'help vampires', google it).
4. User A feels gratified for the immediate solution and expects the same reaction the next time he has an inane question.

Of course, I'm pessimistic by nature, but probably its justified in this case. I'm guilty of 3. myself though....

Ghost1227 · 2010-04-10 00:24:12

I'm surprised I'm the first Dev to reply to this thread, but I'd like to say thanks for the support! I don't necessarily agree with everything said in this thread, but I will agree that more often than not we get more flak than support from the younger members of the community. It's nice to see the occasional appreciative thread!

ngoonee · 2010-04-10 00:27:47

Ghost1227 wrote:

I'm surprised I'm the first Dev to reply to this thread, but I'd like to say thanks for the support! I don't necessarily agree with everything said in this thread, but I will agree that more often than not we get more flak than support from the younger members of the community. It's nice to see the occasional appreciative thread!

while(true) {
post_random_appreciative_thread_to_devs(&arch_linux_forum);
collect_kickback($Ghost1227);
sleep 30d;
}

tlvb · 2010-04-10 01:45:45

Perhaps not everybody realises that when they switch to linux in general and arch in particular, they stop being only the user of their system but also becomes the maintainer. Maintainers have responsibility towards the users.
Also cat $dev_effort_appreciation_statement, if I had time and skills I would help out more, but right now you'll have to do with my inane sed scripts...
s/inane/awesome/

bangkok_manouel · 2010-04-10 02:18:50

tomk wrote:

bangkok_manouel wrote:
...hostile threads after a huge rebuild because his machine is OMFG TOTALLY F****ED I HATE YOU ARCH DEVELOPERS
IME you're exaggerating, in relation to this upgrade anyway. I haven't seen anything that approximates to that kind of reaction, but I have seen a good few users caught by partially-synced mirrors, and others who brought trouble on themselves in various ways. I'm not looking for examples of these hostile posts, btw - just offering an alternative perspective.

there is at least a thread, opened yesterday, with CAPS and F word as a subject. user mistake BTW.

Dusty · 2010-04-10 02:42:49

It's always been like this, actually, it's just that the forum is constantly getting bigger, and more importantly, the old "new" members become the new "old" members, the old "old" members get crotchety, and the old crotchety members become devs, and the old devs quit frequenting the forums. Generally when someone starts thinking the forum has changed, it's actually their perception.

The really really old twice-ex-devs come in here every once in a while to tell everyone nothing's changed.

Dusty

skottish · 2010-04-10 02:47:27

Dusty wrote:

It's always been like this, actually, it's just that the forum is constantly getting bigger, and more importantly, the old "new" members become the new "old" members, the old "old" members get crotchety, and the old crotchety members become devs, and the old devs quit frequenting the forums. Generally when someone starts thinking the forum has changed, it's actually their perception.
The really really old twice-ex-devs come in here every once in a while to tell everyone nothing's changed.
Dusty

With skills comes the greater urge to run... (for some anyway)

There are 34,107 registered users to the forum at the time that I started this post. With a forum community 10% as large as the Ubuntu community of Greater Ajo Arizona, there's going to be 'nay-sayers'.

cactus · 2010-04-10 03:00:40

bangkok_manouel wrote:

yes, you know, the one you see more and more often on this board, the one who makes hostile threads after a huge rebuild because his machine is OMFG TOTALLY F****ED I HATE YOU ARCH DEVELOPERS. more and more, i wonder how developers still can keep the faith and continue giving their time (huge amount, just see arch-dev ML to understand) when receiving such reactions. not a very useful thread i'm opening here, i admit. but i don't care anyway, this makes me sick and i said it. oh, lastly, did i mention i rarely have any issue on four machines running [testing]... arch developers, i understand you are also doing this for you but i really admire you when you come into the place this board has become. anyway, as far as i'm concerned, it's a thank you that i have to give today.
a satisified customer.

Their secret.
They don't read the forums.

ngoonee · 2010-04-10 03:33:03

cactus wrote:

bangkok_manouel wrote:
yes, you know, the one you see more and more often on this board, the one who makes hostile threads after a huge rebuild because his machine is OMFG TOTALLY F****ED I HATE YOU ARCH DEVELOPERS. more and more, i wonder how developers still can keep the faith and continue giving their time (huge amount, just see arch-dev ML to understand) when receiving such reactions. not a very useful thread i'm opening here, i admit. but i don't care anyway, this makes me sick and i said it. oh, lastly, did i mention i rarely have any issue on four machines running [testing]... arch developers, i understand you are also doing this for you but i really admire you when you come into the place this board has become. anyway, as far as i'm concerned, it's a thank you that i have to give today.
a satisified customer.
Their secret.
They don't read the forums.

Yeah, its a very good way of dealing with things . Anyone who can access the bug-tracker (who'd have known the word Bugs up top there is SO MUCH SMALLER than the word Forums) deserves at least 10 seconds of dev-attention-time (or however long it takes to assign the bug to Allan).

Allan · 2010-04-10 03:38:41

Hey, my packages are bug free!

(if you ignore the gdb bug currently there)

agomezh · 2010-04-10 08:21:13

Total newbie, I like arch and thanks to the people that make this possible!.

Arch Linux

#1 2010-04-09 13:09:57

Arch Linux customers

#2 2010-04-09 13:17:01

Re: Arch Linux customers

#3 2010-04-09 14:39:28

Re: Arch Linux customers

#4 2010-04-09 15:08:14

Re: Arch Linux customers

#5 2010-04-09 18:31:49

Re: Arch Linux customers

#6 2010-04-09 18:52:41

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#7 2010-04-09 19:11:02

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#8 2010-04-09 19:25:07

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#9 2010-04-09 19:55:50

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#10 2010-04-09 20:10:19

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#11 2010-04-09 20:26:07

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#13 2010-04-09 20:44:37

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#17 2010-04-10 00:27:47

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