Arch Linux customers

davidm · 2010-04-12 03:45:01

Maybe it's getting too easy to set up Arch? Maybe we need to scramble the beginner's guide a little bit and delete some things here and there just to make sure the bar is raised a bit. At least enough such that those who expect everything on a silver platter are either sufficiently reformed from the installation experienced or discouraged enough to leave on their own.

(I'm 95% kidding here)

Gen2ly · 2010-04-12 04:17:12

davidm wrote:

Maybe it's getting too easy to set up Arch? Maybe we need to scramble the beginner's guide a little bit and delete some things here and there just to make sure the bar is raised a bit. At least enough such that those who expect everything on a silver platter are either sufficiently reformed from the installation experienced or discouraged enough to leave on their own.
(I'm 95% kidding here)

lol, you got me . Except I think you meant 100% .

ataraxia · 2010-04-12 16:00:16

We do get people in here as it is that can't follow (or barely read, or can't even find) the Beginners' Guide, and we don't always tell them to go away.

splittercode · 2010-04-12 18:36:55

I've been using Linux for half a year and Arch for about 2 months and have managed to solve all the problems I've come across by googling/searching the forum, never once complaining or creating new threads. I'm betting there are a lot of new users like myself out there quietly struggling to climb the linux mountain, you just don't know about us!

I just bring this up to let you guys know that for every "MY F***ING ARCH BROKE" type user, there are probably 10+ like myself.

Last edited by splittercode (2010-04-12 18:38:27)

lifeafter2am · 2010-04-12 18:50:44

splittercode wrote:

I've been using Linux for half a year and Arch for about 2 months and have managed to solve all the problems I've come across by googling/searching the forum, never once complaining or creating new threads. I'm betting there are a lot of new users like myself out there quietly struggling to climb the linux mountain, you just don't know about us!
I just bring this up to let you guys know that for every "MY F***ING ARCH BROKE" type user, there are probably 10+ like myself.

In the immortal words of The Crystal Method: "There is Hope!"

samuele.mattiuzzo · 2010-04-12 19:33:47

my arch is 3 years old. yes, the same installation! the same! it changed 2 computers, 2 architectures... and still, it's alive! and perfecly working!
just one black spot: they broke libpng >:| i hate you arch developers!

no i'm joking, i love arch *

axel668 · 2010-04-12 19:40:32

big thanks to the Arch devs, you're doing an awesome job !!! please don't get discouraged by some idiots who never learned some manners - in those cases a hearty "RTFM" rarely misses the mark

agreeing with splittercode, though, that for one of those idiots there's at least 10 of us quietly reading, learning, playing with our systems and having fun ... so please leave the beginners guide alone, ok ? (*downloads a copy, just in case ...)

took me a weekend or two, until my 1st Arch install was running, but hey, in the few months of running Arch I gained more insight on Linux than in years of SUSE, Mandrake and Ubuntu before, so it was well worth it.

Last edited by axel668 (2010-04-12 19:41:12)

toad · 2010-04-12 19:43:57

A: Arch? ARCH??? What have they ever done for us?!
B: What about new kernels?
A: Alright, kernels... Big deal! A fucking kernel... But what have they ever really _done_ for us?
C: And always new packages
A: Awww for fuck sake, kernels and new packages. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean what have they ever DONE for US?
B: And it's a rolling release model so you don't have to reinstall the system...
A: Oh come ON! Give me something to work with!!! Okay, so there is new kernels, new packages and a bloody rolling release disto - BUT WHAT DO I GET OUT OF IT???
C: Well, there is all that great stuff that Dusty tries to offload on people
A: Right! That's it! I've had enough! I'm outta here...
B: AND if you can't break your system, Alan will do it for you.
A: Okay, you wanted it that way, I'm going to have to shoot the lot of you.

Some people are not there to be pleased, just watch the Life of Brian.

kgas · 2010-04-13 07:18:37

If we say Arch Community then as a member, much satisfied with developers as leaders. . All the updates went well in 64 bit installations but one 32 bit installation screwed up. This time with the learning way of Arch, instead of a re-install I put some time to solve the issue. (grub corruption, kernel panic). Thanks to all developers and I always wonder how they are sparing the time to maintain this great distro.

idx · 2010-04-13 07:42:28

Just want to add to the list of thanks to all devs. Arch is a BRILLIANT distro, and the only reason my post count is so low is that I have always been able to find an answer to my problems by searching on the forum / wiki. I guess I could be called a "silent" user: I believe I know my way around arch -and linux in general- pretty well, I just don't really participate in the community aspects (could change one day, though).

I wonder just how many of us there are out there, happily using arch and appreciating just how flexible this distro is without being active on the forums ? Thanks on our behalf, anyway.

davidm · 2010-04-13 23:03:17

ataraxia wrote:

We do get people in here as it is that can't follow (or barely read, or can't even find) the Beginners' Guide, and we don't always tell them to go away.

I'm sort of a noob around here myself (I didn't actually start using arch until Jan 2010) but I note that it seems to make a difference as to their attitude. I've seen people here flat out refuse to read the guide when they are directly linked to it and where multiple established members have told them to do so. Those people have often been eventually flat out told that "maybe Arch isn't for you". Others who just ask stupid questions every now and then but seem to act embarrassed or even apologize when it is revealed that it is a FAQ or clearly documented elsewhere are usually treated a lot less harshly. It seems that attitude makes a big difference with this.

FWIW, I've asked my share of stupid questions as well:
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=87916

Last edited by davidm (2010-04-13 23:22:13)

Misfit138 · 2010-04-14 02:00:05

The documentation has become so good, that many more people are able to easily install and configure Arch. When something breaks, or arises unexpectedly though, an inexperienced user may choose to A: fumble their way through it, fix it, and learn something, or B: get discouraged, deciding that interacting with their operating system itself is not something they want to do and ultimately move on.
Either way, it's win-win. It doesn't hurt my feelings when someone finds out that Arch is not for them.

jocheem67 · 2010-04-14 03:26:36

In my opinion it's no one's business why someone would use Arch...if he/she misbehaves on the forum, just address that behavior.
All the rest is patronizing and on the virge of being that "old skool Linux geekie" style.
All the questions on all the forums have been asked a trillion times, that's just how it goes...choose to answer or choose not to answer.

Oh......this is a very very humble opinion btw. All my thanks/greetings to the devs..

Acecero · 2010-04-14 03:31:25

You know, the documentation in the wiki has evolved exponentially over the past couple of years. When I look at the Beginners' Guide, I wondered why it can't be the Official Arch Linux Install Guide instead? It is much more in-depth and much easier to follow even for an experience user. Could we have a separate poll or debate about this?

MkFly · 2010-04-14 04:25:37

Acecero wrote:

When I look at the Beginners' Guide, I wondered why it can't be the Official Arch Linux Install Guide instead?

I agree, I like that a lot better.

Allan · 2010-04-14 04:27:25

Acecero wrote:

Could we have a separate poll or debate about this?

Nope...

ngoonee · 2010-04-14 04:57:07

jocheem67 wrote:

In my opinion it's no one's business why someone would use Arch...if he/she misbehaves on the forum, just address that behavior.
All the rest is patronizing and on the virge of being that "old skool Linux geekie" style.
All the questions on all the forums have been asked a trillion times, that's just how it goes...choose to answer or choose not to answer.
Oh......this is a very very humble opinion btw. All my thanks/greetings to the devs..

Of course its everyone else's business, this is a community, not a charity. All new users are a drain on the resources (time/energy) of the community, which is to be expected, but extreme cases should be shot (figuratively) for the good of the community.

And its not about 'choosing to not answer', because once experienced members start doing that, you get a community devoid of any useful information. Its one of the long-term effects of help vampires, unfortunately.

jocheem67 · 2010-04-14 16:16:17

I know, and you're right.
I was just thinking of myself being a bit disappointed the other day 'bout a reply by an experienced dude. He was annoyed that I posted ( couldn't use gdm anymore ). He was like " don't eat up my time , search your own answer "...I just felt a bit lost. And I'm definitely not an extreme case.
However it must be hard on the devs, it's good to realize...

ngoonee · 2010-04-15 00:15:03

Google for 'help vampire'. An interesting blog post that describes quite well why those who know tend to withdraw after a prolonged period of 'helping out'.

Arch Linux

#51 2010-04-12 03:45:01

Re: Arch Linux customers

#52 2010-04-12 04:17:12

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#53 2010-04-12 16:00:16

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#56 2010-04-12 19:33:47

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