Haiku / BeOS

ammon · 2009-09-13 11:03:09

Mardoct wrote:

I'm sort of hoping that Linux will beat Haiku simply beacuse I much prefer the name and logo of Linux.

lol!
+1

Give me anything (any OS, any kernel, any userspace...) but with pacman, hardware support and AUR... and I will use it, časna pionirska!

techprophet · 2009-09-13 11:52:34

I tried Haiku whenever it was featured on /. last in a VM. It booted faster than my XP install (which was NOT in the VM).

If they get a LiveCD going that doesn't overwrite the bootloader, I'll try it.

BeRReGoN · 2009-09-13 17:44:23

techprophet wrote:

I tried Haiku whenever it was featured on /. last in a VM. It booted faster than my XP install (which was NOT in the VM).
If they get a LiveCD going that doesn't overwrite the bootloader, I'll try it.

The installer is pretty simple. Prepare a BFS partition, you can use gparted in linux to do so but i guess the one in the installer should do the job also. It copy the files to the partition and you don't have to install the boot loader. I use grub myself to boot in it.

Myself if i use Haiku because the leaf for the menu is almost the same blue of the arch logo!!!

Runiq · 2009-09-13 19:59:06

Well, I'm kinda new to all this. When installing from the iso to a VM disk, I couldn't get the built-in partition manager to format a single volume instead of the whole disk. Guess I'm not accostumed to the whole GUI thing anymore.

<offtopic, kinda>Is it possible to make (virtualbox'd) Haiku believe that my wireless connection is a cable connection, so I can somehow use networking inside Haiku?</offtopic>

andre.ramaciotti · 2009-09-13 20:06:12

Yes. Actually, the guest OS thinks it's using a Ethernet connection by default.

Last edited by andre.ramaciotti (2009-09-13 20:06:27)

Runiq · 2009-09-13 20:12:09

andre.ramaciotti wrote:

Yes. Actually, the guest OS thinks it's using a Ethernet connection by default.

Huh? Hm, guess I have to fiddle with it some more, then. Thanks for clarification.

sand_man · 2009-09-13 23:21:22

Runiq wrote:

andre.ramaciotti wrote:
Yes. Actually, the guest OS thinks it's using a Ethernet connection by default.
Huh? Hm, guess I have to fiddle with it some more, then. Thanks for clarification.

To get network working in Haiku I had to select the Intel Pro 1000 MT Desktop adaptor. The PCNet-FAST III wasn't detected by Haiku.

BeRReGoN · 2009-09-14 05:55:48

The official Alpha1 is out.

http://www.haiku-os.org/

Runiq · 2009-09-14 06:32:23

sand_man wrote:

Runiq wrote:
andre.ramaciotti wrote:
Yes. Actually, the guest OS thinks it's using a Ethernet connection by default.
Huh? Hm, guess I have to fiddle with it some more, then. Thanks for clarification.
To get network working in Haiku I had to select the Intel Pro 1000 MT Desktop adaptor. The PCNet-FAST III wasn't detected by Haiku.

Great! That worked, thanks. Posting from Haiku now.

flamelab · 2009-09-14 06:33:51

Does Haiku have a package management system ? (sorry if it's a silly question, I just started to test it on Vbox)

BeRReGoN · 2009-09-14 06:43:48

flamelab wrote:

Does Haiku have a package management system ? (sorry if it's a silly question, I just started to test it on Vbox)

No not yet but to install a program you just need to unzip it.

There will be a packager later but it's not the priority for now from what i read on, i'm not a developper. It's still Alpha but more stable than a lot of beta stuff i used.

There is an article on osnews:
http://www.osnews.com/story/22156/In_th … a_Released

Last edited by BeRReGoN (2009-09-14 06:44:52)

flamelab · 2009-09-14 07:01:11

I'm trying to install it, but it fails. I start the ISO, I use the install, I create a 8GB primary partition, I format it with Be file system, it installs, I then press the button that installs the bootrecord, I reboot but VirtualBox doesn't seem to find the system :-/

BeRReGoN · 2009-09-14 07:06:43

flamelab wrote:

I'm trying to install it, but it fails. I start the ISO, I use the install, I create a 8GB primary partition, I format it with Be file system, it installs, I then press the button that installs the bootrecord, I reboot but VirtualBox doesn't seem to find the system :-/

Maybe you should log into #haiku chan on freenode, and ask a better qualified person but if you install it on a partition why reboot and using VirtualBox? Just use grub with a chainloader +1 no? For the partition you can do it under linux first to be sure so you just have to activate it to bfs with the installer.

If it's the bootloader of haiku the problem you can press spacebar quickly at boot to see a menu but so far i never had to use it on my configuration so not sure what it shows.

Last edited by BeRReGoN (2009-09-14 07:08:07)

flamelab · 2009-09-14 07:15:01

BeRReGoN wrote:

flamelab wrote:
I'm trying to install it, but it fails. I start the ISO, I use the install, I create a 8GB primary partition, I format it with Be file system, it installs, I then press the button that installs the bootrecord, I reboot but VirtualBox doesn't seem to find the system :-/
Maybe you should log into #haiku chan on freenode, and ask a better qualified person but if you install it on a partition why reboot and using VirtualBox? Just use grub with a chainloader +1 no? For the partition you can do it under linux first to be sure so you just have to activate it to bfs with the installer.
If it's the bootloader of haiku the problem you can press spacebar quickly at boot to see a menu but so far i never had to use it on my configuration so not sure what it shows.

No no, everything is on VBox, I reboot in Virtualbox. I'm a bit... afraid to install it on my system, regarding the fact that it installs a Haiku oriented grub, with different syntax.

BeRReGoN · 2009-09-14 07:45:05

The iso is a live cd also or you can use a vmware image too but i'm not quite familiar with emulation even if i did test haiku in it. I don't even remember if it was vmware or qemu. Not sure about VBox. Better to ask on the forum of haiku.

For a real hardware install, you don't have to install grub at all just edit your existing grub setting or just use the live CD to boot into it:
http://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku/installation-guide

Last edited by BeRReGoN (2009-09-14 07:46:18)

sand_man · 2009-09-15 03:48:22

flamelab wrote:

BeRReGoN wrote:
flamelab wrote:
I'm trying to install it, but it fails. I start the ISO, I use the install, I create a 8GB primary partition, I format it with Be file system, it installs, I then press the button that installs the bootrecord, I reboot but VirtualBox doesn't seem to find the system :-/
Maybe you should log into #haiku chan on freenode, and ask a better qualified person but if you install it on a partition why reboot and using VirtualBox? Just use grub with a chainloader +1 no? For the partition you can do it under linux first to be sure so you just have to activate it to bfs with the installer.
If it's the bootloader of haiku the problem you can press spacebar quickly at boot to see a menu but so far i never had to use it on my configuration so not sure what it shows.
No no, everything is on VBox, I reboot in Virtualbox. I'm a bit... afraid to install it on my system, regarding the fact that it installs a Haiku oriented grub, with different syntax.

Installing a bootloader is optional, from what I can tell.

BeRReGoN · 2009-09-15 06:11:09

sand_man wrote:

Installing a bootloader is optional, from what I can tell.

For what i read on the installation guide

The installer just install it on a drive and make it bootable so if you want to install it into a partition, dual booting, you need to set it up before using the live cd and change the config of your bootloader. The drive setup for now just activate an existing partition into BeFS file system.

Since i was building it from linux before, i had already everything setup so using the ISO, i had just to install it in my pre-existing partition andmy grub was already setup for it.

drcouzelis · 2010-04-13 20:10:39

The Haiku developers hope to have Alpha 2 released around this summer. http://www.freelists.org/post/haiku-dev … iscussions I have Haiku installed on my computer and update once in a while with the latest nightly builds. I don't have any experience with BeOS, just Haiku.

In regards to its progress, Stippi has been making the native webkit-based web browser "WebPositive", and many people have wireless internet connections working now.

After using Linux exclusively for so many years and then trying out Haiku, I realized just how patched together Linux is. Using an OS where the kernel and the GUI and the API are all made by the same people AND is free and open source software is nice.

EDIT: I took notes as I downloaded the nightly source, prepared, and compiled my own Haiku installation CD in Arch Linux. It's convenient because I find it MUCH faster than downloading the entire nightly CD image every time, plus I can choose which software gets put into the image. (such as a web browser) I plan on posting it to the Haiku website but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Last edited by drcouzelis (2010-04-13 20:14:06)

upsidaisium · 2010-04-14 05:26:24

Please do post it when you get a chance, drcouzelis! (and maybe drop a link here in case I forget to check for it on the Haiku website )

I haven't checked in on Haiku in a few months, but my excitement level about Haiku remains high. I think it's time to get it running on my box again.

drcouzelis · 2010-04-14 16:34:31

upsidaisium wrote:

Please do post it when you get a chance!

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Haiku

Of course, update it as you see fit.

ancient_archer · 2010-04-16 10:14:37

Well, I think that there's much truth already put down in this thread. And also, a lot of good points were mentioned here... Also, I share the view that there are really many problems as Arkay mentioned... BTW, I'm not a programmer/IT person, so just my plain user/unprofessional comments here.

As for Windows, I think that (forgive me) it's a quite good OS. It's quite user-friendly, runs lots a lot of applications (virtually almost every application you can think of). But, there are big problems with security mainly because in my point of view Windows has made so much "things" (registry, etc.) to make everything easier, including program installation and execution.

But, it's not really Windows which is not good, it's the overall trade/marketing policy of Microsoft i really hate, especially when it comes to notebooks/netbooks. May I buy a every kind of notebook I want without OS? Well, as for netbooks, I really didn't find a one without OS. At least not in Slovakia (where I live) or Czech Republic (both central Europe) where I live. I don't have a choice and I don'tlike it. With classical notebooks, it's a bit better, but the choice is quite limited. (especially for 13.3" e.g.)

As for Linux distros, IMHO Linux is a very good OS from the technical point of view (good security, fair quantity of apps, fair hardware support). But the problem is aforementioned enormous heterogenity (lots of distros, KDE/Gnome/LXDE/Openbox/Fluxbox/E16/E17; deb vs rpm vs source tarballs vs .run packages, GTK vs. QT and that's only a little part mentioned etc.) which fragments the effort that may be used more efficiently (like developing better/more OS). And, big problem about Linux distros, are UPDATES. XP would be supported for 9 years (2001-2010), average Linux distribution only about 2 years. (Open Solaris and some Ubuntu LTS editions being exceptions...) Even very popular distros (like Ubuntu) have problems with that... I mean switching from e.g. Ubuntu 8.10 to 9.04 or even worse, from 8.10 to 10.04. The system may get really broken after that. A partial solution for that may be a rolling-distro, but there are few of them (Arch - which is really great, gentoo - who wants to spend days of compiling, Slackware - hm, not so rolling). Another problem - kernel updates... (Last week I updated Arch Linux, rebooted, dbus threw an error and I had to reinstall the Arch... - not very confortable and time consuming (of course, it's my fault, 'cause I should have thought over if to upgrade...)

And, unfortunately, Linux is not suitable for commercial games (of course, because almost all game producers used DirectX instead of OpenGL. Why? I don't know exactly, but recently I heard about great disputes in the course of OpenGL development so maybe part of the problem is there)

Linux for commercial use? Like in companies? Ehm, not the ideal options mainly because of a fast release cycle... companies want a stable, long-term supported environment with supported applications.

Plus... the speed... I really had to do a huge distro-hoping till I was able to find a relatively fast distro compared to Win XP for my Optiplex GX 240 with pleasing DE (i.e. KDE or GNOME). Sincerely, the only fast one was Simply MEPIS/Debian with KDE 3.5.10. I was able to install Win XP on a PC with 128 MB SDRAM, 4MB graphic card and K6-2 366 MHz. Suprisingly, it was relatively fast. Show me a distro comparable with XP that would be as fast. Arch is also really fast or at least faster even when using modern apps or DEs (KDE 4.4.1?, GNOME 2.30)

And, what I want to point out, is that perhaps the biggest is that Linux is really not widespread... Only 1-2% share on desktop OS? If it remains, the hardware vendors of everything (graphic cards, wifi parts, printers etc.) would have no good incentives to make a well-tested out of the box drivers and that will not break the egg-chicken problem (Linux distros are not used because hardware support is not 100%, hardware support is not 100% available because Linux is not used much). Hopefully, the situation is really improving and some vendors (Nvidia, HP, Intel) are really Linux friendly.

The point of this reply is that one day, there should really be an alternative OS (be it Haiku which looks great because of its simplicity and homogenity, Syllable, a Linux/Unix distro, OpenSolaris, OS/2 clone or even OSX) which would be able to compete with Windows to decrease Microsoft share on operating systems. Why? Because de facto monopoly is never good and results in abuse. But for Linux, I'm afraid that the train is gone. It had the biggest chance to compete with Windows when Vista came out. It was resource consuming, and really a lot of people got annoyed by it especially when got a slow netbook with 512 MB RAM and Vista on it. There was the point to strike and to start promoting more massively on netbooks. But, it failed and now, when Windows 7 came out, a lot of people are satisfied and it is quite fast from what I heard so no big motivation to switch to other OS.

Hm... how much I dream that one day one alternative OS would reach a share about 25-33% just like e.g. Firefox did... Look at Firefox. It succeeded in turning down the IE share and is a real success, because people are aware of it, lot of extensions are developed for it, the progress is there and plus, it seems to be a technically superior to IE (not using ActiveX and trying to keep official standards...)

I'm sorry for posting such a long post

drcouzelis · 2010-04-16 14:20:18

I was writing a comment about Haiku and open source software, but then I realized I was actually writing a blog entry, so I put it here: http://static-drc.livejournal.com/80550.html

ancient_archer wrote:

The point of this reply is that one day, there should really be an alternative OS which would be able to compete with Windows to decrease Microsoft share on operating systems.
how much I dream that one day one alternative OS would reach a share about 25-33%

I think that might be happening. The alternative OS is: every mobile phone OS that runs on an ARM processor. What do you think?

As for Haiku (and Arch Linux), in my opinion the only way it can fail is if people stop developing it.

bones · 2010-04-20 08:21:22

I've been using Haiku for a few weeks now. Update from svn every couple of days and build within Haiku. Apart from coming across the ocasional bug. I think this OS will have a bright future in time.

evol · 2010-04-20 12:06:59

bones wrote:

I've been using Haiku for a few weeks now. Update from svn every couple of days and build within Haiku. Apart from coming across the ocasional bug. I think this OS will have a bright future in time.

Agreed.

It would be nice to see someone with resources back the development.

I'm a little surprised a netbook manufacturer hasn't.

drcouzelis · 2010-04-20 15:24:46

bones wrote:

I've been using Haiku for a few weeks now. Update from svn every couple of days and build within Haiku. Apart from coming across the ocasional bug. I think this OS will have a bright future in time.

Updating and installing inside Haiku is a great idea. Yesterday I decided to try updating and installing Haiku from Arch (as opposed to burning the Haiku image to a CD and installing it) but I didn't get a chance to try it yet. How does installing Haiku from Haiku even work? Does overwrite what's in "/boot/system" but continue using the older version until you reboot?

What build type did you decide to use? I am using the GCC4 hybrid.

As for web browsers, which do you find yourself using most of the time, BeZillaBrowser or WebPositive or other?

What types of software or features would you say is missing that would keep you from using it as your primary OS?

Arch Linux

#51 2009-09-13 11:03:09

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#52 2009-09-13 11:52:34

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#53 2009-09-13 17:44:23

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#54 2009-09-13 19:59:06

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#55 2009-09-13 20:06:12

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#56 2009-09-13 20:12:09

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#57 2009-09-13 23:21:22

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#58 2009-09-14 05:55:48

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#59 2009-09-14 06:32:23

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#60 2009-09-14 06:33:51

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#61 2009-09-14 06:43:48

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#62 2009-09-14 07:01:11

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#63 2009-09-14 07:06:43

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#64 2009-09-14 07:15:01

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#65 2009-09-14 07:45:05

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#66 2009-09-15 03:48:22

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#67 2009-09-15 06:11:09

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#68 2010-04-13 20:10:39

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#69 2010-04-14 05:26:24

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#70 2010-04-14 16:34:31

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#71 2010-04-16 10:14:37

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#72 2010-04-16 14:20:18

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#73 2010-04-20 08:21:22

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#74 2010-04-20 12:06:59

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#75 2010-04-20 15:24:46

Re: Haiku / BeOS

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