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#1 2005-04-04 06:18:54

dtw
Forum Fellow
From: UK
Registered: 2004-08-03
Posts: 4,431
Website

In moderation

The current status of moderation on this forum is confused to say the least.  In recent weeks there have been  numerous and flagrant breaches of the terms of use of the forum and I for one am increasingly disinclined to be associated with it.

If arch offered any form of commercial product there is absolutely no way that this kind of abuse of the forums would be allowed to take place.

Just because the software is free doesn't mean that users are free to be as abusive as they like.

I propose the adoption of several precautions, which I would like to open for vote to all forum users (in separate threads):
· Terms of use displayed in a thread on the forum, along with the results of any decisions made here

· Anonymous moderators.  I was formerly a moderator at another distro and being a moderator actually prevented me from saying the things i would like to as i felt it may be perceived as representative of the distro and that I had to be seen to be impartial in non-distro business.  Of course this works the other way, you might be more unlikely to carry out necessary mod tasks if they can be associated with you personally, plus it reduced the likelihood of you getting stick for decisions.  I believe this is critical for effective moderation.

· Temporary locking of "objectionable" threads for review and vote by all moderators with one of the following outcomes: · thread remains locked with explanation
· thread unlocked
· thread deleted with explanation
Clearly this requires a communication mechanism amongst mods, mod informs other mods when a topic is locked, peer review is a key requirement

· Temporary suspension and bannings actually used – mods should be allowed to issue "cooling off" bans as they see fit, more permanent bans and warnings should be open to peer-review.  I consider banning extreme but some people just do not respond sometimes.

· No abuse of the moderators should be tolerated, hence i believe it is vital that they are separated from their forum personalities, they are simply enforcing the rules that everyone has agreed to follow.  They have also agreed that the moderators may enforce these rules and so moderators should not be penalized for taking on such an unrewarding role.
If people could be trusted to participate without being abusive then we could happily dispense with moderators full stop.

· Simply more moderators, at least for the time being
I can state from experience that it is no fun being a moderator when you actually have to deal with something serious.

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#2 2005-04-04 07:00:23

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: In moderation

How about some decent board guidelines?

I have been a member on another board for ages, and the board guidelines work, people adhere to them, and those that dont suffer the consequences, they arent restrictive, primarily common sense really.

maybe take a look, they could be a good foundation for here:
http://mandrakeusers.org/posting.html

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#3 2005-04-04 07:27:46

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: In moderation

The moderator team is currently discussing several things in this area. Look for a more clear definition of "Forum Etiquett" coming soon. With such a thing in place, it will likely be much easier to make effective moderation decisions.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#4 2005-04-04 09:19:58

arooaroo
Member
From: London, UK
Registered: 2005-01-13
Posts: 1,268
Website

Re: In moderation

dibblethewrecker wrote:

[snip lots of excellent suggestions...

Here, here!

I look forward to seeing progress in this area. The forums have become surprisingly heating recently, and I know it's putting off even some of the most regular forum users.

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#5 2005-04-04 13:00:26

rasat
Forum Fellow
From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
Website

Re: In moderation

On individual level we should always forgive everyone. But if someone disturb/harm on collective level, we should never forgive until the person rectify him/herself.

This is the guideline how I work and will apply in this forum. The measurement of disturbance in collective level (here Arch community) will be the complains of active users. The complains can be about a person or matter.

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#6 2005-04-06 03:04:01

dtw
Forum Fellow
From: UK
Registered: 2004-08-03
Posts: 4,431
Website

Re: In moderation

Has there been comments deleted from this thread?  Some qoutes don't seem to make sense

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#7 2005-04-06 03:36:12

dtw
Forum Fellow
From: UK
Registered: 2004-08-03
Posts: 4,431
Website

Re: In moderation

i'd just like to point out - just in case people missed it - i always advocate self-moderation over the intervention of the mods.

dp points out how it takes too much time to read the boards because of the trolling then says he doesn't want help doing it  - that makes no sense to me at all.

more mods doesn't mean more locked threads and more problems, it should mean more oversight and less work for the mods, it should also mean less locked threads.

i also think that use of mod privledges to have your say and disallow feedback is a questionable action myself - i can't do that.  if dp was posting a specific mod board guideline or something fair enough but he wasn't he was basically talking about himself.

i fail to see how stuff like this improves the current situation?!

i am perplexed

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#8 2005-04-06 08:54:01

Kern
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2005-02-09
Posts: 460

Re: In moderation

i always advocate self-moderation over the intervention of the mods.

i second dibble on that one.
Maybe somewhere put a lightweight/humoured guide, that users wont balk at reading, somewhere positionally that gives it higher priority than having to search hard for a "rules of etiquette" section.

Snipped from a previous post, as a thumbnail sketch
(http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?p=79776#79776)

Become your own moderator!

Compose your post, put on your moderators hat and hit the Preview button.
Imagine you're now helping a friend post this, and would like said friend to get a favourable response.

As a moderator would you advise him to
a: Hit Post
b: Modify the Post for technical accuracy / Rules of Etiquette
c: Scrub the Post as its looking like a flame/troll/personal grievance
d: Advise your friend to give up on Forums as its affecting his/her blood pressure.

Regarding Moderators and numbers, too many and theres gonna be a disjointed response, and maybe a tendency to wield power as personal justification.

i also think that use of mod privledges to have your say and disallow feedback is a questionable action myself

Full Ack on that one.
ive seen at least one post, continued as a lively discussion, after being forked off by the initial poster, then Locked by said poster as the topic wasnt going in the direction he intended. That was the Forked topic, not his original.
That smacks of censorship, not moderation.

Possibly its down to delegation and the quality of it.

Imagine Judd having to trust no one but himself, and moderate personally, then show up at the next distrowatch interview and say, "well the distro has gone to bits, but hey, i got the forums really locked down".

havent coder/maintainers/devs or what got enough on their hands without having to keep the playground in order as well ?

on a high note, has anyone else noticed the forums have actually quietened down, as in more peaceable, the last few days.

Wonder if thats cos ppl actually are responding to all this "improvement chat" or that talk of banning contentious users has got some laying low awhile ?
smile

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#9 2005-04-06 11:24:39

dtw
Forum Fellow
From: UK
Registered: 2004-08-03
Posts: 4,431
Website

Re: In moderation

yeah - i wonder!

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#10 2005-04-06 15:35:28

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: In moderation

Kern wrote:

Wonder if thats cos ppl actually are responding to all this "improvement chat" or that talk of banning contentious users has got some laying low awhile ?
smile

*rattles sabre*


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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