Arch Linux

ScottWilson1990

Member

Registered: 2010-01-20

Posts: 33

Confusion

Does anyone ever just look at something and think "what teh floook does this even mean?!?!"

After around 5 years of on and off use of Arch and other distro's, I've recently switched to Arch full time and removed all traces of Windows from my home life. But I just find that my relationship with Arch at the minute is that of love and hate. I love the distro because in most respects... it just works and it's exactly what an os should be. Its lightweight, its rolling release, its well supported, its got a good community. But then, when I find myself trying to set certain things up, I I feel its one step forwards and two steps back a lot of the time, and I just look at some things and think... what on earth does that even mean.

Does anyone else ever get that feeling? When you just look at something and think "I really don't understand a single word of this", or is it just me and my lack of ability to fully understand the underlying programming and workings of, not only Arch, but Linux in general, no matter how much I seem to read about it? I'd love to have the ability to just read everything and understand it. Someone say that I'm not alone at being confused over 50% of the time?

As an added note: Can anyone point me in the direction of any good books or articles that break Linux down into an understandable format?

Scott.

(Moderators: please feel free to move this post to the appropriate section if this isn't it).

Last edited by ScottWilson1990 (2010-07-24 01:11:04)

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"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair..." - Douglas Adams

skottish

Forum Fellow

From: Here

Registered: 2006-06-16

Posts: 7,942

Re: Confusion

*** This is an edit to mention that the below is just one example. I could have been more clear ***

For a long time I couldn't stand man pages. I was just "give me an example not this generic junk!!!". After a while, things started to make a bit more sense. Then one day it all started to click; The man pages often make perfect sense and examples are usually not exactly what I was looking for...

It'll take a bit of time, but with some perseverance, it'll all work out. It sounds to me like that you're doing just fine.

-->> <<--

This will be better for the GNU/Linux Discussion section. Moving.

jasonwryan

Anarchist

From: .nz

Registered: 2009-05-09

Posts: 30,426

Website

Re: Confusion

I second skottish's comment about man pages: their utility will reveal itself over time...

I have also found O'Reilly's 'Linux in a Nutshell' to be a handy reference book: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596154493

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cesura

Package Maintainer (PM)

From: Tallinn, Estonia

Registered: 2010-01-23

Posts: 1,867

Re: Confusion

Arch Linux: If you can't stand it, patch it

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skottish

Forum Fellow

From: Here

Registered: 2006-06-16

Posts: 7,942

Re: Confusion

Arch Linux: If you can't stand it, patch it

He's on the brink of taking control of his computer for the first time. Patches may be forthcoming...

karol

Archivist

Registered: 2009-05-06

Posts: 25,440

Re: Confusion

Familiarize yourself with what you have: coreutils contain maaaany nice apps. There are many people who haven't heard about tac, shuf etc. Instead of writing your own scripts, you can use those apps.

nomilieu

Member

Registered: 2010-07-03

Posts: 133

Re: Confusion

Familiarize yourself with what you have: coreutils contain maaaany nice apps. There are many people who haven't heard about tac, shuf etc. Instead of writing your own scripts, you can use those apps.

I second this.

info coreutils

Everyone is confused by Linux after switching from Windows. (Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.)
The secret is to just sit down and read the documentation for the programs you are going to be using.
For example, if you're using bash (and you most likely are), print out "info bash" to read on the can sometime.
Afterward try out some of the nifty tricks you've learned.
In time, you'll have mastered the basics of Linux (and thus be able to use it or any Unix-like OS without too much trouble).

<rant>You might think "Wow, why? Windows is easy to use without reading documentation!"
Well, the problem is that whenever Windows changes the way something works (e.g. recent versions of Word), you feel like a freaking moron trying to puzzle out the new gui, and like an even bigger moron for having to read a help file on how to use a gui!
That's the point of a gui; it's supposed to be self-explanatory. The "start" button had start written on it for a reason; you click it to start doing stuff!</rant>

*edit*
Actually, I realize that I just made the assumption that you're using bash/coreutils instead of all the wonderful tools that come with a full-fledged DE. I suppose that's fine too, but I can't give any tips to go along with that approach. I prefer command line utilities so I can use them easily over ssh (yes, I know you can tunnel gui apps, but I'd rather avoid it if possible), and also so I can transfer my knowledge among operating systems and desktop environments.

Last edited by nomilieu (2010-07-24 16:46:21)

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F@H

Cape

Member

From: Mogliano Veneto, Italy

Registered: 2008-11-15

Posts: 105

Re: Confusion

Well... i might have misunderstood  your question here, but i'll give it a shot...
Assuming Linux as system (GNU/Linux/X/ecc...), the confusion may come because you are dealing with a multitude of heterogeneous pieces of code, written by a bunch of people with different purposes in mind, that are "concatenated" through various levels of abstraction using different busses and protocols.

For me, everything is pretty clear when dealing with GNU/kernel, but i feel some nausea when X+"any DE" start. I think that the problem here is that Linux (as a system) is HUGE but is still missing a sort of "central authority" to organize and "put together" all the little pieces in a way that's human-understandable and machine-efficient, much like GNU has been developed (indeed GNU is pretty good ), and especially tide up all the protocols and standards around.
For example, i hate Gconf or any other configs backend. They just create confusion and misunderstandings on a system that is 90% configured via config files... don't you hate configuration backends too!!

So, yes.... maybe you should focus more on what you need/want and less on the system "workflow"... otherwise you'll end up reading a bible just to configure your icon set!

Last edited by Cape (2010-07-25 20:47:52)

ScottWilson1990

Member

Registered: 2010-01-20

Posts: 33

Re: Confusion

Cape, you've just summed my problem up perfectly.

I think the best direction for me to go in is a mixture between what Karol said, Nomilieu said and what you just said Cape. I think if I familiarise myself with things like Bash and the real core basics of Linux, then I'll have a solid platform to build on. I think the problem is that I have pot-holes in my understanding of the inner workings of Linux and therefore anything that I add to this, just gets twisted by this lack of knowledge.

Not only that, but if I familiarise myself with the core of Linux, then it doesn't matter what distro I may come across, I should always be able to use it from the commandline without having to learn how to use the DE or the interface, much like what Nomilieu said. And I will definitely try and get hold of the "Linux in a Nutshell" book, and see what other books there are at the same time.

Thanks for all your opions I much appreciate it.
Scott.

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"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair..." - Douglas Adams

Vamp898

Member

From: 東京

Registered: 2009-01-03

Posts: 934

Website

Re: Confusion

I only get confused if im too long awaken xD than i can try things for 4 hours and dont get it --> go to sleep --> wake up --> all is done in 5 minutes xD

But after my time using Gentoo i dont have any Linux problems anymore. I feel like i could solve every problem xD (and until now i did).

There is a nice analogy

A Girl which was deaf didn´t learnd that fancy sign language. She learnd to read from lips perfectly. She said she hated it. It tooked long, it was hard and it didn´t made a peace of fun at all. But now she can talk with every person in her environment and most of them even dont get that she is deaf.

She can act in her social environment like every other (she just have to look at the face while talking but thats all) so she said. It was very very hard and much harder then the other ways, but in the end shes the winner. She can now talk with everyone where the other had the easy way and just can talk with other deaf people or people understanding the sign language.

So what i want to say. Install and setup an Gentoo System until you can work with it perfectly and than switch to Arch. You wont have much problems at all (instead you wasn´t able to handle Gentoo)