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#1 2005-04-05 07:24:21

joe
Member
From: Folsom, CA
Registered: 2004-07-27
Posts: 51
Website

Objective-C

I just recently decided to start learning it.  I was wondering why Objective-C is hardly ever mentioned?  It's all the deisgn simplicity of OO, with the power of C, without the hacky-ness of C++.  Is there something I'm overlooking?

So I guess, does anyone here have experience with it, and if not, why have you not given it a try?

-Joe

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#2 2005-04-05 07:29:49

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
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Re: Objective-C

it is on the long list of "things I want to try out". So far, I have not gotten around to it. I always assumed it was some obnoxious OO bolt-on, but I never really looked into it (it is far down on my list of languages to learn). Good to hear that it is not.
Maybe I will look into it (ie. move it a bit higher up the list) sooner.
Of course, if I am going to use anything C like..I might as well just use C. If I want to do something OO, then I would likely just use a higher level language for it.

Still, you are the second person to mention Objective-C that I noticed today. I may have to take a look at it.
big_smile

*wonders if he will ever get around to trying out the D language*


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#3 2005-04-05 15:07:15

krafty
Member
Registered: 2005-03-22
Posts: 15

Re: Objective-C

Hi!

Like yourself, I've just started learning Objective-C.  I haven't done anything "large" with it, but I guess that isn't really necessary to notice its simplicity.  It's a good mix of OO and C that isn't as complex as C++.  I don't understand either why it's rarely mentioned, but I assume it's mostly because of the lack of a practical and useful Objective-C environment in Windows (there's GNUstep.. I don't believe a lot of programmers interested in GNUstep use Windows however) and the Cocoa framework from Apple is obviously limited to the small OS X userbase .  There will probably be some people who dislike the smalltalk-like syntax as well.

Have you tried out GNUstep already?   I don't know if there are any Arch packages for it, but it isn't hard to install and the GNUstep docs are great!  I'm just hoping someone will ever make GNUstep look as good as gnome.  It's a pity some great concepts from GNUstep are being "ignored" because the UI is rather old-fashioned...


:: it's not in rhyme or reason

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#4 2005-04-05 15:16:47

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
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Re: Objective-C

IIRC objC was kind of overshadowed by C++ so it didn't catch on too well (*looks at oracle*)... but here's my opinion on why it's not that big of a deal:

at the time of objC, people had begun creating this OO paradigm.  C programmers were probably a bit relucatant to change (as old-timers tend to be, heh) so most stuck with C... those who did enjoy OOP most likely toyed with the idea, but weren't proficient enough... when C++ came out, these people realised there were now 2 OO languages they could learn and most likely went with the "newer" one

Just my random musings... I'm in no way saying C++ is better than objC as I wouldn't know (performance, etc) - but I personally like C++ better...

I used to work on a bunch of really old VAX VMS systems, and did alot of work in objC... though there wasn't alot of OO going on 8)

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#5 2005-04-05 17:15:43

Snowman
Developer/Forum Fellow
From: Montreal, Canada
Registered: 2004-08-20
Posts: 5,212

Re: Objective-C

krafty wrote:

Have you tried out GNUstep already?   I don't know if there are any Arch packages for it, but it isn't hard to install and the GNUstep docs are great!  I'm just hoping someone will ever make GNUstep look as good as gnome.  It's a pity some great concepts from GNUstep are being "ignored" because the UI is rather old-fashioned...

If you're looking for a WM with the NeXT look 'n' feel check out windowmaker (there is an Arch package for it).  There is also AfterStep. Check my sig for the PKGBUILD.  (getting the package from my repo won't work.  My current host don't allow files > 500kB.  sad  )  There are also newer  PKGBUILD in the forum.

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#6 2005-04-05 17:19:20

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Objective-C

krafty wrote:

It's a pity some great concepts from GNUstep are being "ignored" because the UI is rather old-fashioned...

hey, look at what fvwm-crystal did for fvwm 8)

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#7 2005-04-05 17:53:50

dadexter
Member
From: Dorval, QC, Canada
Registered: 2004-09-07
Posts: 274
Website

Re: Objective-C

krafty wrote:

Hi!

Have you tried out GNUstep already?   I don't know if there are any Arch packages for it, but it isn't hard to install and the GNUstep docs are great!  I'm just hoping someone will ever make GNUstep look as good as gnome.  It's a pity some great concepts from GNUstep are being "ignored" because the UI is rather old-fashioned...

Thanks to tehdely... there are some packages... I just don't know how updated they are... the stuff is all CVS so I guess rebuilding it won't be too much trouble

[gnustep]
Server = ftp://blkwidow.lerp.com/pub/mirror/arch/gnustep

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#8 2005-04-05 21:17:17

krafty
Member
Registered: 2005-03-22
Posts: 15

Re: Objective-C

Snowman wrote:

If you're looking for a WM with the NeXT look 'n' feel check out windowmaker (there is an Arch package for it).  There is also AfterStep.

It's not necessarily the Look 'n' Feel I find appealing.  One of the more interesting features, imho, is the packaging of an application in its own .app folder.  It would make installing (and uninstalling) an application a lot easier for people who are new to linux.  This is one of the things Mac fans often stress when talking about OSX (usually comparing it to Windows), and yet this is not an OSX-only feature.  But of course, this isn't necessary with a great package manager (as pacman is).. and this isn't the thread to discuss GNUstep I guess smile

phrakture wrote:

hey, look at what fvwm-crystal did for fvwm

ooh!  Hadn't seen that yet.. looks neat smile


:: it's not in rhyme or reason

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#9 2005-04-05 21:48:57

neotuli
Lazy Developer
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: 2004-07-06
Posts: 1,201
Website

Re: Objective-C

Tehedly had to leave a while back, I host my repo on the same server as he does, and I technically have access to it, so I suppose I could actually update them if it came to it. Last I heard from him, he had some guy and was teaching him how to take care of it, they don't look like they've been updated in quite a while though.

EDIT I've got fvwm-crystal in my repo if you'd like to try it smile I'm not updating my repo until the AUR is launched, so it's a version out of date, but you can still try it.


The suggestion box only accepts patches.

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