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#1 2010-08-19 01:24:49

broch
Banned
From: L.A. California
Registered: 2006-11-13
Posts: 975

powertop rependencies: requires kernel

sudo pacman -S powertop
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...

Targets (3): linux-firmware-20100807-1  kernel26-2.6.35.2-1  powertop-1.13-1


this is quite over the top requirement for powertop

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#2 2010-08-19 01:43:09

my0pic
Member
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 206

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

Your using testing obviously, so powertop-1.13-1 in testing requires kernel26-2.6.35.
Powertop in community is at 1.11-2.
Ah scratch that, I just did a pacman -Syu. Those packages have just hit the repos from testing.

Last edited by my0pic (2010-08-19 01:45:43)

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#3 2010-08-19 03:00:21

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,854

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

broch wrote:

sudo pacman -S powertop
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...

Targets (3): linux-firmware-20100807-1  kernel26-2.6.35.2-1  powertop-1.13-1


this is quite over the top requirement for powertop


Powertop monitors power usage. To do that it needs functionality supplied by the kernel. Hence the kernel is a hard dependency.

Not having kernel26 there would be like buying a disk brake without a car.....


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#4 2010-08-19 04:00:50

broch
Banned
From: L.A. California
Registered: 2006-11-13
Posts: 975

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

ngoonee wrote:
broch wrote:

sudo pacman -S powertop
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...

Targets (3): linux-firmware-20100807-1  kernel26-2.6.35.2-1  powertop-1.13-1


this is quite over the top requirement for powertop


Powertop monitors power usage. To do that it needs functionality supplied by the kernel. Hence the kernel is a hard dependency.

Not having kernel26 there would be like buying a disk brake without a car.....

Jesus...
What are you talking about? Are you trying to say that previous versions of powertop run on linux without kernel?
Not to mention that I downloaded PKGBUILD for the latest version of powertop removed kernel dependency and installed software. Wait, should I remove kernel completely from my system?

No, I don't have kernel26 installed (I use sources). Powertop works great without Arch kernel and new options/suggestions are available).

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#5 2010-08-19 05:09:58

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,854

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

broch wrote:
ngoonee wrote:
broch wrote:

this is quite over the top requirement for powertop


Powertop monitors power usage. To do that it needs functionality supplied by the kernel. Hence the kernel is a hard dependency.

Not having kernel26 there would be like buying a disk brake without a car.....

Jesus...
What are you talking about? Are you trying to say that previous versions of powertop run on linux without kernel?
Not to mention that I downloaded PKGBUILD for the latest version of powertop removed kernel dependency and installed software. Wait, should I remove kernel completely from my system?

No, I don't have kernel26 installed (I use sources). Powertop works great without Arch kernel and new options/suggestions are available).

If your kernel is installed outside the package management system then its your own job to manage the dependency issues that arise. I'm merely pointing out that powertop requires the kernel, therefore it is a dependency. What's the issue?


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#6 2010-08-19 05:29:23

my0pic
Member
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2008-05-23
Posts: 206

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

with powertop 1.11-2 pacman -Qi listed ncurses as the only dependency.
powertop 1.13-1 dependencies are ncurses and kernel26>=2.6.35

broch wrote:

No, I don't have kernel26 installed (I use sources). Powertop works great without Arch kernel and new options/suggestions are available).

and you need at least a 2.6.35 kernel to enable the new features.

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#7 2010-08-19 12:50:13

broch
Banned
From: L.A. California
Registered: 2006-11-13
Posts: 975

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

If your kernel is installed outside the package management system then its your own job to manage the dependency issues that arise. I'm merely pointing out that powertop requires the kernel, therefore it is a dependency. What's the issue?

following this ..reasoning you should add kernel dependency in every package available: nothing will work without kernel. Point is that this is not required dependency while ncurses is.

I don't need your schooling regarding dependencies. I have single installation of arch running without kernel26 older than your presence at this forum, not to mention that one year ago you barely knew what kernel is judging from your posts (and number of posts does not make you any more experienced). If you have something constructive to add, go on, other than that you can increase number of posts in off topic forum.

and you need at least a 2.6.35 kernel to enable the new features.

no
run diff on latest 2.6.34 and 2.6.35
Not to mention that if powertop will not see something, then it will not suggest this (missing option)
to make it clear: if option is not available powertop creates the following message:

(which is CONFIG_DEBUG_KERNEL=y in the config file)
Note: this is only available in 2.6.21 and later kernels

so for powertop functionality kernel 2.6.25 is not required.

Last edited by broch (2010-08-19 12:58:25)

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#8 2010-08-19 19:27:08

dcc24
Member
Registered: 2009-10-31
Posts: 723

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

@broch: powertop needs to make calls to the kernel, that's why it depends on it. The new version of the powertop package requires kernel 2.6.35 specifically, hence a dependency to kernel26 is introduced, so people won't try to upgrade powertop without upgrading the kernel.

Now, as for your "every package should depend on the kernel" nonsense; they all do! I'm sure most (if not all) packages depend on the kernel through some dependency. Here, take a look:

pacman -Rcs kernel26
checking dependencies...
warning: dependency cycle detected:
warning: xorg-server-1.8-catalyst-maximize-fix will be removed after its catalyst dependency

Remove (110): xfprint-4.6.1-4  thunar-thumbnailers-0.4.1-3  hplip-3.10.6-1  graphviz-2.26.3-1  cups-pdf-2.5.0-1  a2ps-4.14-1  psutils-1.17-2  guvcview-1.4.1-1  gstreamer0.10-bad-plugins-0.10.19-1  ghostscript-8.71-3
              ffmpegthumbnailer-2.0.3-1  devil-1.7.8-6  vlc-1.1.2-2  smplayer-svn-3559-1  skype-2.1.0.81-2  pyqt-4.7.4-2  osmos-1.6.0-4  openoffice-uglyfix-freetype2-2.4.1-1  jasper-1.900.1-6  freeglut-2.6.0-1
              filezilla-3.3.3-1  ffmpeg-24460-2  devede-3.16.9-1  xvba-video-0.7.3-1  xorg-utils-7.6-2  wxgtk-2.8.11-1  qt-4.6.3-1  mplayer-vaapi-31774-1  mesa-7.8.2-1  libva-1.0.4-1  go-openoffice-3.2.1.3-1  powertop-1.13-1
              catalyst-10.7-3  xorg-server-1.8-catalyst-maximize-fix-1.8.2-1  kernel26-2.6.35.2-1  foomatic-db-4.0.5_20100816-1  foomatic-db-engine-4.0.5_20100816-1  net-snmp-5.5-5  portaudio-19_20071207-3  exempi-2.1.1-1
              faac-1.28-2  faad2-2.7-1  libass-0.9.11-1  libcdaudio-0.99.12-5  libdc1394-2.1.2-1  libdca-0.0.5-2  libdvdnav-4.1.3-2  liblrdf-0.4.0-6  libmms-0.6-1  libmodplug-0.8.8.1-1  libmpcdec-1.2.6-2  libofa-0.9.3-2
              libvdpau-0.4-1  libvpx-0.9.1-1  mjpegtools-1.9.0-4  musicbrainz-2.1.5-3  schroedinger-1.0.9-1  soundtouch-1.5.0-1  xvidcore-1.2.2-1  allegro-4.4.1.1-1  openexr-1.6.1-1  fluidsynth-1.1.1-2  libdvbpsi-0.1.7-1
              libmatroska-1.0.0-1  libmtp-1.0.2-1  libshout-2.2.2-3  lua-5.1.4-6  sdl_image-1.2.10-2  taglib-1.6.3-1  ttf-freefont-20090104-2  zvbi-0.2.33-2  sip-4.10.5-1  openal-1.12.854-1  cdrkit-1.1.10-1  dvdauthor-0.6.18-1
              vcdimager-0.7.23-7  libdmx-1.1.0-1  libxxf86dga-1.1.1-1  aalib-1.4rc5-6  enca-1.13-1  jack-0.118.0-4  libcaca-0.99.beta17-1  libxvmc-1.0.6-1  dri2proto-2.3-1  hyphen-2.6-1  libgraphite-2.3.1-1  libwpd-0.8.14-1
              lpsolve-5.5.0.15-1  redland-1.0.10-2  libpciaccess-0.11.0-1  xbitmaps-1.1.0-1  xcursor-themes-1.0.2-1  xf86-input-evdev-2.4.0-2  xorg-fonts-misc-1.0.1-1  foomatic-filters-4.0.5_20100816-1  libmp4v2-1.9.1-1
              libusb1-1.0.8-1  ladspa-1.13-2  fftw-3.2.2-1  libdv-1.0.0-3  ilmbase-1.0.1-1  libebml-1.0.0-1  speex-1.2rc1-1.1  fribidi-0.19.2-1  imagemagick-6.6.2.10-1  dmxproto-2.3-1  xf86dgaproto-2.1-1  recode-3.6-5
              rasqal-0.9.19-2  raptor-1.4.21-1

Total Removed Size:   1062.66 MB

Do you want to remove these packages? [Y/n] n

So, If I start removing these packages (hence those that don't appear here, but are in the dependency loop as well), I'm sure there won't be any left.

Finally, as for your wise-ass attitude, it's neither welcome nor allowed in here, as I'm sure you already know.

Last edited by dcc24 (2010-08-19 19:28:49)


It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. (Mark Twain)

My AUR packages

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#9 2010-08-19 20:58:12

marfig
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2010-07-30
Posts: 176
Website

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

Broch,

Powertop dependency on Kernel 2.6.35 could be understood by you, if you took the time to download the sources from upstream and checked yourself if the Arch packager made a mistake before jumping the gun on these forums. Look under the kernel-patches folder.

Contrary to your own opinion, I suggest you do need some schooling regarding dependencies. And attitude...
And yes, I'm as a linux newb as they come. But I know things you don't.

Last edited by marfig (2010-08-19 20:59:56)


I probably made this post longer than it should only because I lack the time to make it shorter.
- Paraphrased from Blaise Pascal

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#10 2010-08-19 21:34:54

falconindy
Developer
From: New York, USA
Registered: 2009-10-22
Posts: 4,097
Website

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

-powertop doesn't create any kernel modules. It's strictly a userland app.
-the patches included in the source are never applied to arch's kernel (nor were they merged upstream).

How about looking at wsvn to see the commit message?

upgpkg: powertop 1.13-1 Update to 1.13. 1.11 segfaults using kernel 2.6.35

..which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Seems that if 1.11 were still around and 1.13 wasn't available yet, it would be apropos to make it conflict with kernel26>=2.6.35. But, 1.13 is available and works with 2.6.35. If 1.13 doesn't function properly on kernels prior to 2.6.35, it would still conflict not require kernel26.

Last edited by falconindy (2010-08-19 21:36:49)

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#11 2010-08-19 22:20:37

flamelab
Member
From: Athens, Hellas (Greece)
Registered: 2007-12-26
Posts: 2,160

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

broch wrote:

If your kernel is installed outside the package management system then its your own job to manage the dependency issues that arise. I'm merely pointing out that powertop requires the kernel, therefore it is a dependency. What's the issue?

following this ..reasoning you should add kernel dependency in every package available: nothing will work without kernel. Point is that this is not required dependency while ncurses is.

I don't need your schooling regarding dependencies. I have single installation of arch running without kernel26 older than your presence at this forum, not to mention that one year ago you barely knew what kernel is judging from your posts (and number of posts does not make you any more experienced). If you have something constructive to add, go on, other than that you can increase number of posts in off topic forum.

and you need at least a 2.6.35 kernel to enable the new features.

no
run diff on latest 2.6.34 and 2.6.35
Not to mention that if powertop will not see something, then it will not suggest this (missing option)
to make it clear: if option is not available powertop creates the following message:

(which is CONFIG_DEBUG_KERNEL=y in the config file)
Note: this is only available in 2.6.21 and later kernels

so for powertop functionality kernel 2.6.25 is not required.

Having installed an app OUT of the package management system is wrong.-

The same applies for all OSes, even on Windows.

Especially the kernel.

Last edited by flamelab (2010-08-19 22:21:03)

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#12 2010-08-19 22:30:54

wonder
Developer
From: Bucharest, Romania
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 5,937
Website

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

useless discussion. report it on our tracker and i'll assign to the previous packager and he can explain why he added kernel26


Give what you have. To someone, it may be better than you dare to think.
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#13 2010-08-19 23:10:39

tomk
Forum Fellow
From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,839

Re: powertop rependencies: requires kernel

In other words - this should never have been a forum thread. If any Arch user disagrees with decisions made by Arch devs, they should raise their concerns in a bug report.

Broch - in general, it would be in your interests to temper your language and attitude when using this forum. Specifically, respect for those of us who have volunteered for moderating duties is required at all times.

dcc24, marfig - if you encounter behaviour from any forum user that you believe is inappropriate, please use the Report function provided. Do not attempt to address the situation yourself.

This thread is now closed.

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