Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

cesura · 2010-08-21 01:48:30

Xyne wrote:

...Dusty getting busted for child trafficking to support his schwag empire (he practices martial arts just to keep them in line)...

Hehehe

I think the main problem, as you stated, is because Arch is international.. That would just get...messy.

skottish · 2010-08-21 01:53:53

Arch should not even try to become a US non-profit. There's a lot of software that is in 'legal limbo' that travels with almost all distros. First, Arch would have to become far more strict than Debian to even come close to dealing with potential legal issues. And even then, as mentioned before, this would require a large team of lawyers. That would require donations to rise far beyond their current state and commercial backers.

*** It's not going to happen. Arch will not be Arch if it did. ***

Last edited by skottish (2010-08-21 01:54:55)

jeff story · 2010-08-21 02:22:19

A quick search revealed the following list. Perhaps someone within the Arch community could initiate contact with someone who has first hand knowledge, regarding the time and costs associated with becoming 501(c).

I'd like to contribute to the Arch community, but please don't spend more time/money than it's worth for a small donation.

Oh and the Archies cereal idea, Tony the Tiger thinks it's Gr-r-reat!!!

Debian
a not-for-profit public charity as described in
section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.
source: http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100730

The Gentoo Foundation
is a 501(c)(6) non-profit foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_Linux

Foresight
is a 501(c)(3) non profit organization
source: http://www.foresightlinux.org/donate/

The GNOME Foundation
is a non-profit 501(3)c
source: http://foundation.gnome.org/finance/

The Linux Kernel Organization
a 501(c)3 private operating foundation.
source: http://www.kernel.org/nonprofit.html

Linux Fund
a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization
source: http://www.linuxfund.org/

The FreeBSD Foundation
is a 501(c)(3), US based, non-profit organization
source: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/

skottish · 2010-08-21 02:52:38

jeff story wrote:

A quick search revealed the following list. Perhaps someone within the Arch community could initiate contact with someone who has first hand knowledge, regarding the time and costs associated with becoming 501(c).

Why don't you? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or aggressive, but it makes sense to me that you give it a shot. The Linux Legal Defence Fund:

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/programs … fense-fund

seems like a good place to start.

cesura · 2010-08-21 04:11:36

jeff story wrote:

The Gentoo Foundation
is a 501(c)(6) non-profit foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_Linux

I didn't know Gentoo was a non-profit organization. Bah! They're always one step ahead of us (except with KDE 4.5.0 of course ).

Allan · 2010-08-21 05:35:41

skottish wrote:

jeff story wrote:
A quick search revealed the following list. Perhaps someone within the Arch community could initiate contact with someone who has first hand knowledge, regarding the time and costs associated with becoming 501(c).
Why don't you? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or aggressive, but it makes sense to me that you give it a shot. The Linux Legal Defence Fund:
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/programs … fense-fund
seems like a good place to start.

I think it would really have to be Aaron or one of the devs who initiates such a thing.

Acecero · 2010-08-21 07:30:51

Allan wrote:

skottish wrote:
jeff story wrote:
A quick search revealed the following list. Perhaps someone within the Arch community could initiate contact with someone who has first hand knowledge, regarding the time and costs associated with becoming 501(c).
Why don't you? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or aggressive, but it makes sense to me that you give it a shot. The Linux Legal Defence Fund:
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/programs … fense-fund
seems like a good place to start.
I think it would really have to be Aaron or one of the devs who initiates such a thing.

What would be the other benefits (besides the donation) to having Arch become a legal non-profit enterprise, say if Aaron or the other devs did initiate it?

jeff story · 2010-08-21 09:05:22

Check this out ,

Very interesting read. This may be a viable option.

The Software Freedom Conservancy
http://conservancy.softwarefreedom.org/overview/

What are the benefits of joining the Conservancy?

One of the principal benefits of joining the Conservancy is that member projects get all the protections of being a corporate entity without actually having to form and maintain one. These benefits include, most notably, the ability to collect earmarked project donations and protection from personal liability for the developers of the project. Projects can continue to operate in the same way they did before joining the Conservancy without having to select a board of directors or any other layer of corporate management, without having to maintain corporate records and without having to do any of the other things required of incorporated entities. The Conservancy handles all of that burden on behalf of its projects.

The Conservancy is a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organization, so member projects can receive tax-deductible donations to the extent permitted by law.

If my project joins the Conservancy, how will it change?

Substantively, member projects continue to operate in the same way as they did before joining the Conservancy. So long as the project remains devoted to Free and Open Source Software and operates consistently with the Conservancy's tax-exempt status, the Conservancy does not intervene in the project's development other than to provide administrative assistance. For example, the Conservancy keeps and maintains books and records for the project and assists with the logistics of receiving donations, but does not involve itself with technical or artistic decision making. Projects are asked, however, to keep the Conservancy up to date on their activities.

Member Projects:
(Just a few names I recognize)

Amarok

BusyBox

Foresight Linux

Samba

Wine

Acecero · 2010-08-21 10:03:44

jeff story, it sounds like a good option but you would want to email Aaron again about this suggestion, if you have not.

crouse · 2010-08-21 15:16:18

Xyne wrote:

Dusty getting busted for child trafficking to support his schwag empire (he practices martial arts just to keep them in line).

Thanks Xyne, now I have to clean my monitor after i just spit my drink all over it laughing.....

Last edited by crouse (2010-08-21 15:16:43)

skottish · 2010-08-21 16:13:30

Allan wrote:

skottish wrote:
jeff story wrote:
A quick search revealed the following list. Perhaps someone within the Arch community could initiate contact with someone who has first hand knowledge, regarding the time and costs associated with becoming 501(c).
Why don't you? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or aggressive, but it makes sense to me that you give it a shot. The Linux Legal Defence Fund:
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/programs … fense-fund
seems like a good place to start.
I think it would really have to be Aaron or one of the devs who initiates such a thing.

I was thinking along the lines of a feature request this huge with all of the necessary changes to Arch should be well presented to the Arch team. I give a lot of credit to jeff story for pulling in so much good information.

Acecero · 2010-08-24 07:32:30

So any updates from Aaron?

Vermillion · 2010-08-24 10:55:28

I don't know how this works in the USA but in Switzerland it's quite easy to make a non profit organization (or an association...). You just need to a constitution which must cover some certain points (what's the purpose, who leads, how you can become a member, who is responsible for cash, and so on...) and then register at your local community (you have to sign a paper and hand them a copy of your constitution out and you get a number).

I can't believe that this is much more complicated in USA o.O or am i wrong?

imag1narynumber · 2010-08-24 13:10:58

Vermillion wrote:

<snip>
I can't believe that this is much more complicated in USA o.O or am i wrong?

I posted a link already.

Everything's more complicated in the U.S.. ;-)

Allan · 2010-08-24 13:29:05

Acecero wrote:

So any updates from Aaron?

Has anyone actually contacted him?

Acecero · 2010-08-24 20:06:40

Allan wrote:

Acecero wrote:
So any updates from Aaron?
Has anyone actually contacted him?

I'm assuming jeff story did and waiting for his response.

cesura · 2010-08-24 20:11:34

Allan wrote:

Acecero wrote:
So any updates from Aaron?
Has anyone actually contacted him?

I would imagine the OP would contact him. He doesn't seem to read forum threads anymore (probably too busy lifting cars or something).

jeff story · 2010-08-25 04:23:24

Ok,

I just got a reply from the email below I sent Aaron.

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:04 PM, jeff story <jeffsa12@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have an opportunity to donate to a non profit organization of my choice
> through my employer, Kelloggs, who will matching my contrubitions.
>
> The first thing that came to mind was the Linux community and specifically,
> my OS of choice Arch Linux. The non profit organization however, has to
> be under the 501(c) status. I couldn't find any info regarding Arch's 501(c)
> status.
>
> See my thread: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=103198

His reply stated that Arch is not yet an official entity or non profit.
He also stated that in the future he does want to move forward with this, and that it would also involve a lot of work.

I then followed up with the following, and will wait for a reply.

Aaron.

I did a bit of research and came up with the following option. I believe this option would allow Arch Linux to receive donations as a 501(c) non profit, and eliminate most of the work involved in organizing into a legal entity.

Perhaps you could take a quick look at the link I provided.

http://conservancy.softwarefreedom.org/overview/

Software Freedom Conservancy Member Projects:
(Just a few of the names I recognize)

Amarok
BusyBox
Foresight Linux
Samba
Wine

I'd be interested in your thoughts on it. I have until the end of Sep to choose who I'd like to donate to, and I like the fact that my employer is going to match my donations.

If it looks impossible that Arch would be eligible to accept a donation as a 501(c) entity by the end of Sep, please let me know.

Would you have a suggestion for my donation offer towards any other Linux, oss project, etc organization that may be able to accept a 501(c) donation and be under a GPL license?

Last edited by jeff story (2010-08-25 09:36:48)

alexandrite · 2010-08-25 10:23:04

Arch has a pretty liberal stance regarding copyright and licensing, especially when it comes to codecs for proprietary media formats and the like. Is there any word on whether or not "Arch, LLC" would be legally able to keep such a stance as a US-registered non-profit organization or as a member of the SFC?

Last edited by alexandrite (2010-08-25 10:24:41)

skottish · 2010-08-26 03:15:27

alexandrite wrote:

Arch has a pretty liberal stance regarding copyright and licensing, especially when it comes to codecs for proprietary media formats and the like. Is there any word on whether or not "Arch, LLC" would be legally able to keep such a stance as a US-registered non-profit organization or as a member of the SFC?

Exactly. Arch will become liable to US law, hence what I said a while back about becoming more restrictive than Debian (because of the rolling release). Arch will not be Arch anymore. And for what? To save a couple of dollars on ones taxes?

When one expects something back, it's not a gift, nor a donation, anymore. What's wrong with giving to Arch directly and allowing it to be what it is?

ngoonee · 2010-08-26 05:07:14

skottish wrote:

alexandrite wrote:
Arch has a pretty liberal stance regarding copyright and licensing, especially when it comes to codecs for proprietary media formats and the like. Is there any word on whether or not "Arch, LLC" would be legally able to keep such a stance as a US-registered non-profit organization or as a member of the SFC?
Exactly. Arch will become liable to US law, hence what I said a while back about becoming more restrictive than Debian (because of the rolling release). Arch will not be Arch anymore. And for what? To save a couple of dollars on ones taxes?
When one expects something back, it's not a gift, nor a donation, anymore. What's wrong with giving to Arch directly and allowing it to be what it is?

I think its standard O.P. for large-ish corporations to firstly do CSR and secondly to only allow CSR funds to be sent to properly registered companies/organizations.

The first is for obvious reasons (primarily P.R, secondarily actual social responsibility) but the second is a safeguard against an employee just dumping cash into a two-cent company which then buys him a new car .

pseudonomous · 2010-08-26 21:29:37

skottish wrote:

alexandrite wrote:
Arch has a pretty liberal stance regarding copyright and licensing, especially when it comes to codecs for proprietary media formats and the like. Is there any word on whether or not "Arch, LLC" would be legally able to keep such a stance as a US-registered non-profit organization or as a member of the SFC?
Exactly. Arch will become liable to US law, hence what I said a while back about becoming more restrictive than Debian (because of the rolling release). Arch will not be Arch anymore. And for what? To save a couple of dollars on ones taxes?
When one expects something back, it's not a gift, nor a donation, anymore. What's wrong with giving to Arch directly and allowing it to be what it is?

Just for the record, FreeBSD is backed by US non-profit organization (the FreeBSD foundation) and they provide binary packages of some legal ambiguity, like the ffmpeg x264 glugin (which I believe is patent encumbered) at certain ftp mirrors; assuming they know what they're doing, then, as long as Arch keeps "core" free of legally encumbered packages (and as far as I now, there's nothing with known legal issues in core) Arch should continue to distribute packages as it does now.

But who knows, patent law gives me headaches.

Probably not particularly useful but this is a link to the FreeBSD foundation.

skottish · 2010-08-27 01:28:00

pseudonomous wrote:

... snip ...
Just for the record, FreeBSD is backed by US non-profit organization (the FreeBSD foundation) and they provide binary packages of some legal ambiguity, like the ffmpeg x264 glugin (which I believe is patent encumbered) at certain ftp mirrors;

x264 is not violating any patents. The questionable patents relate to decoding content, and even there, only commercially. If x264 had "borrowed" code like a certain AAC encoder (and related AAC decoder), then it would be a whole different story.

Last edited by skottish (2010-08-27 02:15:29)

dhave · 2010-08-27 12:46:24

Perhaps I've still got a streak of anarchism in me, but I think there's something to be said for flying beneath the radar. The group's identity should come from the group and not be dependent on governmental classification or registration. I'd like to think of the Arch community as just that -- the developers and users of ArchLinux worldwide -- not "we're a U.S.-registered 501(c) non-profit organization" or "a French-registered association culturelle," etc.

I don't think the monetary advantages of registration are sufficient to relinquish the "free citizens of the world, freely associated" identity that the Arch community presently enjoys.

crouse · 2010-08-30 20:40:06

dhave wrote:

Perhaps I've still got a streak of anarchism in me, but I think there's something to be said for flying beneath the radar. The group's identity should come from the group and not be dependent on governmental classification or registration. I'd like to think of the Arch community as just that -- the developers and users of ArchLinux worldwide -- not "we're a U.S.-registered 501(c) non-profit organization" or "a French-registered association culturelle," etc.
I don't think the monetary advantages of registration are sufficient to relinquish the "free citizens of the world, freely associated" identity that the Arch community presently enjoys.

+1 I'd have to agree 100%.

Arch Linux

#26 2010-08-21 01:48:30

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#27 2010-08-21 01:53:53

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#28 2010-08-21 02:22:19

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#29 2010-08-21 02:52:38

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#30 2010-08-21 04:11:36

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#31 2010-08-21 05:35:41

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#32 2010-08-21 07:30:51

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#33 2010-08-21 09:05:22

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#34 2010-08-21 10:03:44

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#35 2010-08-21 15:16:18

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#36 2010-08-21 16:13:30

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#37 2010-08-24 07:32:30

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#38 2010-08-24 10:55:28

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#39 2010-08-24 13:10:58

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#40 2010-08-24 13:29:05

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#41 2010-08-24 20:06:40

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#42 2010-08-24 20:11:34

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#43 2010-08-25 04:23:24

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#44 2010-08-25 10:23:04

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#45 2010-08-26 03:15:27

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#46 2010-08-26 05:07:14

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#47 2010-08-26 21:29:37

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#48 2010-08-27 01:28:00

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#49 2010-08-27 12:46:24

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

#50 2010-08-30 20:40:06

Re: Arch Linux Donations and 501(c) Status?

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