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#1 2005-04-12 01:13:25

greggh
Member
Registered: 2005-01-26
Posts: 12

Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

Intersting article I saw on Slashdot...

Is Ubuntu a Compatibility Nightmare for Debian?

http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/05/04/1 … 90&tid=106

An anonymous reader submits "Following Friday's release of Ubuntu Linux 5.04, Ian Murdock, founder of the Debian project, told internetnews.com: 'Ubuntu's popularity is a net negative for Debian.' He explained: 'It's diverged so far from Sarge that packages built for Ubuntu often don't work on Sarge. And given the momentum behind Ubuntu, more and more packages are being built like this. The result is a potential compatibility nightmare.' Ian suggests a method for averting crisis on his blog."

http://internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3496541

http://ianmurdock.com/archives/000244.html


WAL*BORG - Resistance is futile. You WILL shop here.

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#2 2005-04-12 04:05:10

johnisevil
Member
From: Hamilton, ON Canada
Registered: 2003-08-07
Posts: 221
Website

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

It's not Ubuntu's fault that they can put out a new version of their distro more than once every 5 years.

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#3 2005-04-12 04:53:31

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

johnisevil wrote:

It's not Ubuntu's fault that they can put out a new version of their distro more than once every 5 years.

LOL!
I fell out of my chair laughing when I read that..
heh..thanks. I needed a good laugh today.  8)


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#4 2005-04-12 12:22:24

d3c3it
Member
From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2003-09-10
Posts: 112
Website

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

*wears flame suit* im going to wish i hadnt said this..but i really dont like ubuntu...and if ive got the right thinking here if there using a snapshot of sid in theory there is no security updates as sid isnt controlled by the security team...


"Covered in blood, Cant understand" - Biffy Clyro

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#5 2005-04-12 15:00:02

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

I don't like ubuntu either - it's too cookie-cutter for me

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#6 2005-04-12 17:43:16

woodstock
Member
From: Toronto / Canada
Registered: 2004-11-21
Posts: 68

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

I don't like Ubuntu either. I can't stand having "defaults" installed for me... I don't like having anything but a base system install to start with. It's easier to add on than it is to remove. At least that was my experience with Slackware for instance.

All of the "let me do that for you" has it's time and place, and I feel that Ubuntu wont really give you that choice as simply as Arch for instance.

Also the development process isn't as transparent as I would like. Something about the way Debian and Debian-based distro's work with their packages. You can't simply find the .slackbuild or PKGBUILD or even the Ebuild to the binaries, download and edit them simply. It's a much more involved process, which I find cumbersome to say the least. Why go through all that hassle when you can get the same result with a much simpler system.

But then again, Ubuntu has it's own niche and whatever that may be (desktop market apparently) it's doing it's job.

I dunno, just my 2 cents, take it as you want.


-- woodstock

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#7 2005-04-12 18:09:56

ozar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2005-02-18
Posts: 1,681

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

I've installed Ubuntu 4 or 5 different times (including the very latest 5.04) but always find that I don't care for it, either.  Sometimes, I'll install vanilla Debian too, but always fall back to my default distro, Arch Linux.

It's just easier to use, in my opinion...    8)    big_smile


oz

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#8 2005-04-12 20:06:38

Kern
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2005-02-09
Posts: 464

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

i think Ubuntu is great. It did me a big favour.

This new, easy, all singing & dancing, "top of the pile at Distrowatch" package, quite simply failed to install, some incompatibility or i was sat on the chair wrong or something else.

So onward to try Number 13 on the list at that time ..... Arch Linux.

This was the final hop. Lucky 13.

Not the slightest urge to retry Ubuntu, even just to check it works.

It now sits in "Distro Graveyard" with the rest of the 'coffee coasters' .

8)

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#9 2005-04-12 22:24:09

johnisevil
Member
From: Hamilton, ON Canada
Registered: 2003-08-07
Posts: 221
Website

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

LOL!
I fell out of my chair laughing when I read that..
heh..thanks. I needed a good laugh today.

Not only can the truth hurt, but it can be funny as well.  smile

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#10 2005-04-12 22:34:26

aCoder
Member
From: Medina, OH
Registered: 2004-03-07
Posts: 359
Website

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

This topic has rekindled my unending hate of Debian's package management system and debian-installer.  Every other installer I've used just works, and debian-installer just doesn't.  Oh yeah, I almost forgot!  Burn in hell debconf! :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

...

wink


If you develop an ear for sounds that are musical it is like developing an ego. You begin to refuse sounds that are not musical and that way cut yourself off from a good deal of experience.
  - John Cage

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#11 2005-04-12 23:11:14

mctavish
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2004-03-22
Posts: 48

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

I think Ubuntu is exciting and promising. I like the idea that linux may be brought to the masses.

With this in mind I switched over to it for a few months. I found it far too constricting and dumbed down, with few opportunities for tweaking, problem solving etc. So it wasn't for me and here I am back with Arch.  I'm in control again. 8)

Quite apart from my personal aversion, I felt that Ubuntu is just not there yet in terms of usability. It's not nearly at the point where I would recommend it to my parents. I am beginning to suspect that macs are a far better option for this market.

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#12 2005-04-13 11:21:55

d3c3it
Member
From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2003-09-10
Posts: 112
Website

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

I have to agree with everyones posts that a newbie install is good for linux as a whole it just feels abit of a flash in the pan.
When i got my new laptop i decided to try ubuntu worty. Well it crashed before even getting to the installer, hory(sp) was no better. Turned acpi on/off, same stuff. Decided to go back to my roots and install debian, worked without question and im still using it now.
The only reason ive not swapped this laptop over to arch is ive just recently reinstalled due to an nvidia problem (turns out it was the usbstack causing the issues) and ive not the time, its a shame theres no arch port for ppc id install it in a heartbeat, when i get my ibook that is smile

but lets not turn this into a ubunut hating thread, everyone is free to use what they like, personally im a control freak and i want to install each package myself and not have anything pushed on me, but i do use the ubuntu livecd to get data off dead windows laptops smile


"Covered in blood, Cant understand" - Biffy Clyro

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#13 2005-04-13 12:19:47

filoktetes
Member
From: Skien, Norway
Registered: 2003-12-29
Posts: 286

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

I'm so glad I found ArchLinux. Since then I haven't installed one other distribution, and I don't care whether Ubunto or Fedora or Mandrinoxious is the best, because I have exactly what I want wink

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#14 2005-04-13 18:35:42

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: Interesting problem that Debian is facing because of Ubuntu

Actually, Ubuntu is quite nice, if it fulfills your needs. It is a shame the debian folks have such a slow release cycle. Really. I don't understand why they have lasted this long. Having people forced to constantly using testing or unstable seems silly.
If debian doesn't get their act together and start releasing things in a more timely fashion, I think their days will start to be numbered.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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