Does anyone else think Archlinux should get a Flattr button?

goplexian · 2010-09-05 04:41:38

For those who dont know, basically flattr is a way to donate a small amount of money to a project.

You can check it out here.

More and more projects are starting to get flattr buttons to make it easy to accept donations.

A couple examples:

Linux Mint

Arch-Hurd

So what do you guys think, should the main Archlinux project get a flattr button?

I'd donate every month if I could donate through flattr!

jasonwryan · 2010-09-05 04:48:50

You don't need a button to donate to Arch, just some initiative: http://www.archlinux.org/donate/

Do we need a Flattr button? I don't think there is a compelling need, no.

goplexian · 2010-09-05 05:10:04

Well the difference between a one time paypal donation and flattr is that flattr funds are distributed on a monthly basis.

Every month $5 is will be coming out of my account, and going to whoever I've clicked that month.

If Arch had a flattr button they would get a piece of my flattr every month.

The money is going to go somewhere, so if you want some get a button.

ozar · 2010-09-05 05:13:41

The PayPal button that Arch already has works well enough for me. Certainly, there is always another button that could be added, but I'm okay with just the one, at least for now.

goplexian · 2010-09-05 05:17:24

"It works for me, so there is no point adding anything else."

I'm always amazed by this attitude.

jasonwryan · 2010-09-05 05:28:08

Arch is about simplicity - adding buttons may increase the amount that is donated, but the point is that we have a way for people to donate, and it works.

The Arch Way wrote:

Rather than pursuing assistance or requesting a new feature to be implemented by developers, Arch Linux users have a tendency to solve problems themselves and share the results with the community and development team – a "do first, then ask" philosophy.

If you want to donate, go ahead and do so. A button that makes it easier for you is not necessarily the best solution for the rest of the community...

goplexian · 2010-09-05 07:09:22

jasonwryan wrote:

Arch is about simplicity - adding buttons may increase the amount that is donated, but the point is that we have a way for people to donate, and it works.
The Arch Way wrote:
Rather than pursuing assistance or requesting a new feature to be implemented by developers, Arch Linux users have a tendency to solve problems themselves and share the results with the community and development team – a "do first, then ask" philosophy.
If you want to donate, go ahead and do so. A button that makes it easier for you is not necessarily the best solution for the rest of the community...

You've just given me a very bad impression of Archlinux.

Saying "do it first, then ask" makes no sense to this topic of "adding a flattr button" because it is not something I can do for the project myself, I'm sure Arch doesn't just let anyone go around collecting money and using the Archlinux name without "asking first".

OR are you saying that I should donate first "the arch way" through paypal, and only then will you listen to my suggestions about new ways to donate?

Either way this doesn't exactly strike me as the best response to make to someone asking about donating to your project, but maybe I missed your point...

OF course, if I had been suggesting a paypal-clone I could easily understand your reaction, but flattr is a fundamentally different concept.

Right now on flattr there is a project which made over 3000 flattr donations in the last 4 days.

Now I dont care what you say, that is a heck of a lot of donations to be made over just 4 days, especially considering it was done with a new approach to donating. Many of those people are likely to donate to that project again next month, and the next, and the next.

But I guess none of that matters since its not "the Arch way".

Honestly the response I thought I was going to get was: "Hey thats an awesome idea, We really appreciate you taking the time to make suggestions to get Arch some much needed funding. I don't personally use flattr or know much about it but it sounds interesting."

or maybe "We've thought about flattr already, but we did a poll and it seems not many in this community use it."

Maybe I was overly optimistic.

Oh well.

Last edited by goplexian (2010-09-05 07:11:47)

hatten · 2010-09-05 07:18:41

I'm not against the idea of putting a little button to the right of the current paypal button, or for that sake, we more or less have two paypal buttons, one that says paypal and one that says donate, get rid of one of those and replace with flattr.

wonder · 2010-09-05 07:23:41

@goplexian i'm sorry but this discussion is pointless here.

The people that are in charge of this doesn't read forums. I suggest to contact directly Aaron Griffin

dcc24 · 2010-09-05 07:26:21

I agree with goplexian. This is not an issue of "it's not the Arch Way". This is not a community contribution issue. I'm really amazed that some people are opposing the addition of a button even though they admit it could result in more donations.

Speaking of which:

jasonwryan wrote:

A button that makes it easier for you is not necessarily the best solution for the rest of the community...

It does make it easier for some people, so why oppose it? Does it make it harder for you to donate? Without even doing a poll about it, how do you know its not the best solution for the rest of the community?

jasonwryan · 2010-09-05 07:27:33

goplexian wrote:

You've just given me a very bad impression of Archlinux.

That wasn't my intention: you were asking if people thought a button was a good idea - I disagreed.

goplexian wrote:

OR are you saying that I should donate first "the arch way" through paypal, and only then will you listen to my suggestions about new ways to donate?
Either way this doesn't exactly strike me as the best response to make to someone asking about donating to your project, but maybe I missed your point...

Neither - I was saying we have a way for people to donate - and I don't see a compelling reason for the button.

goplexian wrote:

Honestly the response I thought I was going to get was: "Hey thats an awesome idea, We really appreciate you taking the time to make suggestions to get Arch some much needed funding. I don't personally use flattr or know much about it but it sounds interesting."
or maybe "We've thought about flattr already, but we did a poll and it seems not many in this community use it."
Maybe I was overly optimistic.
Oh well.

You opened the thread to solicit opinions - and you got one you didn't like...

Banton · 2010-09-05 08:07:13

For me Paypal is fine. No need for flattr. Also flattr cuts 10% of your donations and use it for their one. I think thats a little bit to much. If u spend 100$ a month and support 10 projects, the winner with the most income is flattr.

Ari'osika · 2010-09-05 08:24:51

Before this thread; I never even knew that Arch linux accepted or even had a way of accepting donations.. and because of that I think at the very least the idea behind it should be better addressed.

Just my $0.02 worth

jasonwryan · 2010-09-05 08:43:41

Apparently, you can already donate to Arch using Flattr...

Wikipedia wrote:

To foster faster adoption, including on sites which may not natively support Flattr, a Firefox plugin, Överallt [...] has been developed. It allows the equipped browsers to parse a simple plain-text tag ([Flattr=ID]) and replace it inline with the Flattr widget. This extends the range of Flattr, so that not only sites which support Flattr, but all sites, can have Flattr buttons.

goplexian · 2010-09-05 09:43:41

Banton wrote:

For me Paypal is fine. No need for flattr. Also flattr cuts 10% of your donations and use it for their one. I think thats a little bit to much. If u spend 100$ a month and support 10 projects, the winner with the most income is flattr.

I dont think this is explained very well.

Flattr only takes a 10% cut of what you earn by your flattr buttons each month.

If you earn zero, then flattr will not take anything.

If you earn $100 in one month, then at the end of that month flattr will take $10 from the $100, leaving you with a total earnings of $90

Also, flattr does not charge you for depositing money into your account, nor do they charge you when you take money out.

It is the second question on the flattr faq

Also, keep in mind that Paypal does charge for their service as well.

Last edited by goplexian (2010-09-05 09:47:25)

.:B:. · 2010-09-05 10:42:47

I think 10% is a bit big, considering it's about 'micropayments' (after all that's what their 'unique selling point' seems to be). Paypal's maximum rate seems to be 2,9% + 0,30 USD, plus some extra fees for currency conversion (and 'cross-border' payments, no doubt an angle their financial department found to increase revenues).

You can donate small amounts with paypal too. Flattr is just a new kid on the block being hyped and getting a lot of attention. On the plus side, Paypal doesn't seem to allow you to donate monthly.

You can try to raise public support for getting it on the donation page, but as wonder pointed out, you're in the wrong spot.

Mr.Elendig · 2010-09-05 11:46:13

.:B:. wrote:

I think 10% is a bit big, considering it's about 'micropayments' (after all that's what their 'unique selling point' seems to be). Paypal's maximum rate seems to be 2,9% + 0,30 USD, plus some extra fees for currency conversion (and 'cross-border' payments, no doubt an angle their financial department found to increase revenues).
You can donate small amounts with paypal too. Flattr is just a new kid on the block being hyped and getting a lot of attention. On the plus side, Paypal doesn't seem to allow you to donate monthly.
You can try to raise public support for getting it on the donation page, but as wonder pointed out, you're in the wrong spot.

It is actually possible to do timed donations with paypal, but afaik it has to be set up by the site. PDPC uses paypal for yearly/monthly donations.

pataphysician · 2010-09-05 15:11:40

10% is really high, especially since you can only get your money out through Paypal on Flattr (so another 2.9%+.30 will be taken by Paypal besides the 10%, unless you use a personal Paypal account), and you put your money in for donation for Flattr essentially via Paypal or Moneybookers.

So Flattr is taking 10% for a social netowork.

Paypal does do micropayments, they charge 5% and $0.05 , basically you would use this rate where the 2.9%+.30 would cost you a bit more, so anything under $11.00, paypal micropayments would be cheaper than Paypals regular rate (which only applies for money to non-personal accounts, personal paypal accounts recieve money for free on paypal unless there is a credit card involved)

Last edited by pataphysician (2010-09-05 16:20:58)

alexandrite · 2010-09-05 15:16:47

goplexian wrote:

"It works for me, so there is no point adding anything else."
I'm always amazed by this attitude.

What's wrong with this attitude? I mean, some experimentation seems necessary, but it would be silly to change everything around for the simple sake of change.

Although, in this particular philosophical context, I don't think that flattr would introduce any real new paradigm for the distro; it would just be another path to donation. I say "why not? It can't hurt to have that extra option for keeping the servers running."

goplexian · 2010-09-05 20:37:40

alexandrite wrote:

goplexian wrote:
"It works for me, so there is no point adding anything else."
I'm always amazed by this attitude.
What's wrong with this attitude? I mean, some experimentation seems necessary, but it would be silly to change everything around for the simple sake of change.
Although, in this particular philosophical context, I don't think that flattr would introduce any real new paradigm for the distro; it would just be another path to donation. I say "why not? It can't hurt to have that extra option for keeping the servers running."

I appreciate the support.

But the reason why that attitude (it works for me) surprises me is because it is such a self centered way of looking at things.

Just because there is an option that satisfies you personally is no reason to exclude other options which other people are asking to be included.

Just as one example look at Windows VS Linux. How many people are satisfied with Windows? Quite a few.

Replace the word "it" with "Windows" and you get "Windows works for me, so there is no point adding anything else."

I think we can all see the problem with people who have that attitude: They are being self centered and are not respecting our right to choose Linux.

The internet is a big place, there is room for everyone, there is no need to poop on other peoples choices.

Last edited by goplexian (2010-09-05 20:38:24)

wonder · 2010-09-05 20:55:52

i suggest this thread to be closed. i see that the OP only wants to flame the discussion and not actually inform the right persons.

goplexian · 2010-09-05 21:06:02

wonder wrote:

i suggest this thread to be closed. i see that the OP only wants to flame the discussion and not actually inform the right persons.

Go ahead and close it if you want.

I wanted to get peoples opinions on the idea first, and I've done that.

.:B:. · 2010-09-05 21:13:40

Wonder suggested how you could get the ear of the development team, so further discussion here is indeed pointless - even more so because of the turn this topic has taken.

Arch Linux

#1 2010-09-05 04:41:38

Does anyone else think Archlinux should get a Flattr button?

#2 2010-09-05 04:48:50

Re: Does anyone else think Archlinux should get a Flattr button?

#3 2010-09-05 05:10:04

Re: Does anyone else think Archlinux should get a Flattr button?

#4 2010-09-05 05:13:41

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#5 2010-09-05 05:17:24

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#6 2010-09-05 05:28:08

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#10 2010-09-05 07:26:21

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#21 2010-09-05 20:55:52

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#22 2010-09-05 21:06:02

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#23 2010-09-05 21:13:40

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