Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

jg · 2010-09-21 14:42:10

Hello

I've been asked to install and manage an installation of 20+ computers at my school. They will be dual-boot with Windows and Linux. Even though i've never used Arch, i chose it for the install because i've heard a lot of good about it. I ask for tips on installing and managing such an installation. All the computers and their disks are identical, and i wish all my systems to be identical as well. There is a separate server with LDAP to which i have no root access, but which holds all user accounts.

Install:
I probably can suffer installing all the systems manually. I'll dedicate one workstation and create an ftp mirror so that i may do a netinstall on the others -- is this an ok idea? Also, how can i setup hostnames? Can DHCP do this?

Management:
The computers will be randomly shut down and powered on as the users please. Perhaps i can boot them all on once a fortnight and use cssh (cluster ssh) to do a system update -- but maybe there is a better way? A local mirror of the packages seems wise. I don't think it's a good idea to create a diskless setup, since if all machines are powered on at once it will significantly decrease boot time and increase network usage, to the annoyance of the users.

I ask for criticism of those ideas and additional hints.

PS. I appreciate the joke of asking someone without a Linux installation what the output of a Linux command is:) (when registering to this forum)

karol · 2010-09-21 14:45:15

There's AIF - a framework that can help you automate some deployment tasks.

We assume that people who want to register have Linux installation at hand, it''s a way of fighting spammers https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php … 25#p827125

Last edited by karol (2010-09-21 14:54:15)

tomk · 2010-09-21 16:06:48

As all the hardware is identical, you could also consider installing one system as required and then cloning it.

Texas · 2010-09-21 16:21:34

Is Arch the best fit for this scenario? Especially if you yourself have never used it before? Arch is more of a "hands on" distro. Installing it for a public computer lab and then walking away, I wouldn't do it. Maybe Debian stable would be better, or even *gasp* Ubuntu.

jg · 2010-09-21 16:34:09

Texas wrote:

Is Arch the best fit for this scenario? Especially if you yourself have never used it before? Arch is more of a "hands on" distro. Installing it for a public computer lab and then walking away, I wouldn't do it. Maybe Debian stable would be better, or even *gasp* Ubuntu.

Well, i've been using NetBSD and FreeBSD for quite some time so i think i can handle Arch. Hopefully it's not that complex a system.

Please elaborate on what problems i might encounter while using Arch, as opposed to Debian or Ubuntu.

karol · 2010-09-21 16:36:44

jg wrote:

Please elaborate on what problems i might encounter while using Arch, as opposed to Debian or Ubuntu.

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arc … tributions
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=100202
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=104455
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=102882

Last edited by karol (2010-09-21 16:37:49)

jg · 2010-09-21 16:51:19

I don't get the "do-it-yourself" thingy. Does that mean that users need root accounts and patch the kernel? Or is everything broken and needs fixing? Are there no default configs provided? Does Arch need daily supervision? From what i read on the page karol provided, Debian is no better than Arch, and the comparisons with the BSDs say nothing of value.

Perhaps i described my situation poorly. I wish to have up to date software. I also wish to have a large quantity of diverse software - each user has his own favorites. I will be near the systems every day to fix them if they break.

The "rolling release" solves my first problem. Your large collection of packages solves the second. And "do-it-yourself" is no problem, i'll be around all the time.

karol · 2010-09-21 17:05:02

DIY is related to no-default-browser and no-default-DE/WM - you pick what you want.

The users (or people who update and generally administer the systems) need to be literate with the Arch Way of doing things (what are the repos, what is AUR etc.). I've never used Debian nor BSD, so I can't compare, but I don't have a problem with running a slim Arch system and I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Patching kernel shouldn't be required, but if the users don't pay attention to the announcements, they can end up with a broken system.

There's a number of bugs, some things don't work as expected, but the bugtracker, the mailing-list, the forums and the wiki are here for a reason.

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/FAQ … se_Arch.3F

Sorry for the forum link discussing Arch-BSD comparison, I should have checked if that's the thread I was looking for, but instead I just threw the link at ya ;P

Last edited by karol (2010-09-21 17:12:04)

jg · 2010-09-21 17:12:35

karol wrote:

DIY is related to no-default-browser and no-default-DE/WM - you pick what you want.

That doesn't sound like a reason for me to switch to a different operating system.

karol wrote:

There's a number of bugs, some things don't work as expected

Well, this is definitely not good

karol · 2010-09-21 17:22:00

When you install the desktop "version" of Ubuntu you get Gnome and a bunch of apps. After you install Arch core system you have coreutils and some network apps ;P Some people don't want set up their environment by themselves, they prefer "prepackaged" distro, like Ubuntu, that does all the automagick configurations.

You can pick another cron incarnation or come up with a fix that's good enough for you. Most bugs are eventually fixed, feature requests get implemented, but with limited manpower things aren't progressing as fast as some people would have liked.

jg · 2010-09-21 17:26:24

Well, thanks for the warnings. If Arch gives me trouble then i'll consider other Linux distributions.

My original request for hints regarding managing my soon to be installation still stands.

toad · 2010-09-21 17:44:25

afaik your install question has been answered by tomk (answer #3).

As for management: I update daily, some people do it only once a week, but you shouldn't leave it much longer than that (be aware of holidays!). If I were you, I'd take a computer and have it separate as a testing machine. If the update worked on it, go and do it on the rest. If not, wait until it is fixed you've fixed it yourself.

HTH and good luck.

PS.: Install Arch on your box RIGHT NOW

karol · 2010-09-21 17:48:19

toad wrote:

afaik your install question has been answered by tomk (answer #3).

+1

toad wrote:

If I were you, I'd take a computer and have it separate as a testing machine. If the update worked on it, go and do it on the rest. If not, wait until it is fixed you've fixed it yourself.

http://archlinux.me/crouse/2010/01/18/c … ch-server/
That works if you can test all the usecases which may be tricky if each workstation has different software installed.

Texas · 2010-09-21 19:02:23

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to talk you out of using Arch. I just know I would be leery of rolling out a distro I had not used before. Use Arch for a few weeks and see how you like it.

jg wrote:

PS. I appreciate the joke of asking someone without a Linux installation what the output of a Linux command is:) (when registering to this forum)

This is quite surprising. As Arch is not the n00b distro of choice, I would expect everyone registering to have a Linux machine, maybe another distro. Especially someone who is about to become the System Administrator of a computer lab of 20+ Linux machines .

jg · 2010-09-21 19:26:57

Texas wrote:

jg wrote:
PS. I appreciate the joke of asking someone without a Linux installation what the output of a Linux command is:) (when registering to this forum)
This is quite surprising. As Arch is not the n00b distro of choice, I would expect everyone registering to have a Linux machine, maybe another distro. Especially someone who is about to become the System Administrator of a computer lab of 20+ Linux machines .

What do you mean by "n00b"? Is Arch that much different from NetBSD that it requires months of studying? The command the forum prints is not a POSIX command. I would guess it doesn't even work on different distributions.

toad · 2010-09-21 19:35:24

It does work on different distros. You are most welcome to try them all. Heck, even NetBSD worked (mental note: must change it to specifically preclude all non Arch users who don't eat tacos!).

Enough fun was had. Glad you managed it and hope you find Arch welcoming.

Oh, and a noob is generally someone who hasn't got the faintest of anything to do with the Unix world, but you knew that anyway.

jg · 2010-09-21 19:39:51

Well, i sure haven't learned much about arch. But i have learned a lot about it's user base. Anyway, thanks for the chat

Texas · 2010-09-21 19:47:36

I actually did not mean you are a n00b. I mean anyone signing up. Didn't mean to offend. I have found Arch users to be quite helpful. I'll shut up now.

Sjoden · 2010-09-21 23:12:05

If I was in your position...

Setup arch on one machine, from scratch to production ready, with the following in mind.
-Decide what desktop environment and window manager(s) you want installed/want to support.
-Which applications your users will need
-Which privileges are required or groups your users will need to be in.
-Install everything, and note the names of the packages, everything installed after the base install.

Then make a simple setup sh script that calls pacman to install everything you need and check any settings/group memberships etc, checking the logs afterwords to make sure that there were no issues. You could use this to streamline setup on the rest, or just do what tomk said and clone it.

I wouldn't wait more than a week between updates. You could probably setup a cron job to run pacman and accept the defaults. You should run this on a test machine before the rest though to insure nothing breaks; that happens occasionally.

I would probably choose Gnome as the DE personally. Not that it is any better than the others, but it is what I am familiar with, and seemed a bit less cluttered than KDE last time I used it. Less clutter and easily changeable settings means less time fixing users' mistakes.

You could setup your own local arch repo/mirror and just have the rest of the machines sync from that, it'd save a lot of bandwidth and make updates a bit faster.

Cosmin · 2010-09-22 07:05:31

I agree with Sjoden
I would clone the setup.

Arch Linux

#1 2010-09-21 14:42:10

Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#2 2010-09-21 14:45:15

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#3 2010-09-21 16:06:48

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#4 2010-09-21 16:21:34

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#5 2010-09-21 16:34:09

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#6 2010-09-21 16:36:44

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#7 2010-09-21 16:51:19

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#8 2010-09-21 17:05:02

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#9 2010-09-21 17:12:35

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#10 2010-09-21 17:22:00

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#11 2010-09-21 17:26:24

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#12 2010-09-21 17:44:25

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#13 2010-09-21 17:48:19

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#14 2010-09-21 19:02:23

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#15 2010-09-21 19:26:57

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#16 2010-09-21 19:35:24

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#17 2010-09-21 19:39:51

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#18 2010-09-21 19:47:36

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#19 2010-09-21 23:12:05

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

#20 2010-09-22 07:05:31

Re: Arch Linux install and management on multiple workstations

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