You are not logged in.

#51 2010-10-20 14:00:12

SanskritFritz
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2009-01-08
Posts: 1,619
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Thx guys.


zʇıɹɟʇıɹʞsuɐs AUR || Cycling in Budapest with a helmet camera || Revised log levels proposal: "FYI" "WTF" and "OMG" (John Barnette)

Offline

#52 2010-10-20 14:50:50

Miles28
Member
From: Spain
Registered: 2008-08-31
Posts: 77

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Problems with two packages from AUR:

- Adeskbar.
- Decibel Audio Player.

Offline

#53 2010-10-20 16:39:35

qfingers
Member
Registered: 2010-07-09
Posts: 6

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

pychecker fails.

Offline

#54 2010-10-20 16:44:21

wonder
Developer
From: Bucharest, Romania
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 5,937
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

@Miles28 @qfingers this is not a thread for compiling a list with packages that doesn't work. read the latest news, allan blog post to understand what just happened, try to fix it yourself or ask for help if you fail.


Give what you have. To someone, it may be better than you dare to think.
Blog

Offline

#55 2010-10-20 17:51:20

qfingers
Member
Registered: 2010-07-09
Posts: 6

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

wonder wrote:

@Miles28 @qfingers this is not a thread for compiling a list with packages that doesn't work. read the latest news, allan blog post to understand what just happened, try to fix it yourself or ask for help if you fail.

I agree.  But this whole python thing that "seemingly" works should have been left in the testing group
until alot of these issues were taken care of.  Replacing python 2 with python 3 and throwing caution
to the wind so my "stable" systems are now not stable in really not acceptable.  This type of change
shouldn't have been part of the "core", "extra", and "community" repositories.  Now Arch (which used
to be extremely stable), is not any more.  Why are we moving things this quickly?  pychecker is in
the "community" repo, so it should have had better tested then just a "recompile".

I've been happy with Arch upto this point.  But making large python2 to python3 changes in the stable
portion of the system is unacceptable.  Things may seemingly work but what, things don't?  I hope
this type of change goes through some testing first before it's thrown in the wild.

q

Last edited by qfingers (2010-10-20 17:53:04)

Offline

#56 2010-10-20 18:07:25

wonder
Developer
From: Bucharest, Romania
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 5,937
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

@qfingers pyckecker is in community but i don't see any bugs for it reported. this forum is not a bugtracker, neighter the mailing list.


Give what you have. To someone, it may be better than you dare to think.
Blog

Offline

#57 2010-10-20 18:24:22

qfingers
Member
Registered: 2010-07-09
Posts: 6

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

wonder wrote:

@qfingers pyckecker is in community but i don't see any bugs for it reported. this forum is not a bugtracker, neighter the mailing list.

And that justifies making large changes to the "stable" repos before testing?  Nice...

I would have filed a bug but I cannot log into the bug report database as I've forgotten
my user id and it doesn't allow email addresses for forgotten passwords.  I cannot use
my email address to create another user id either.

q

Offline

#58 2010-10-20 19:28:27

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,537

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Interesting. DockbarX stopped working. Now I have a new concept of using my desktop.

Well, that pretty much sums it up. As a non-developer, my only point of contact with that change is those AUR packages refusing to work.

Offline

#59 2010-10-20 21:37:32

mcmillan
Member
Registered: 2006-04-06
Posts: 698

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

qfingers wrote:

And that justifies making large changes to the "stable" repos before testing?  Nice...

What makes you think it never spent any time in testing? The python rebuild went into testing and community testing two weeks ago, including pychecker. I was actually impressed with how smooth the transition seemed to be, even on my computer that runs from the testing repos. The only things that gave me problems were a known bug with wicd that was fixed while in testing and a couple unmaintained AUR packages. Obviously that isn't the case for all packages, but the devs can't fix things that aren't reported, and the proper way to report things is the bug tracker, since things are likely to be missed if they're only reported in this thread.

Offline

#60 2010-10-20 21:52:43

qfingers
Member
Registered: 2010-07-09
Posts: 6

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

mcmillan wrote:
qfingers wrote:

And that justifies making large changes to the "stable" repos before testing?  Nice...

What makes you think it never spent any time in testing? The python rebuild went into testing and community testing two weeks ago, including pychecker. I was actually impressed with how smooth the transition seemed to be, even on my computer that runs from the testing repos. The only things that gave me problems were a known bug with wicd that was fixed while in testing and a couple unmaintained AUR packages. Obviously that isn't the case for all packages, but the devs can't fix things that aren't reported, and the proper way to report things is the bug tracker, since things are likely to be missed if they're only reported in this thread.

How many packages rely on python in all the arch repos?  100 ... 200?  So your telling
me you allowed a 2 week time frame to test and validate all those packages?  And that is enough time?
I'm sorry, but this is a MAJOR change.  Not only did you upgrade to python 2.7 but also in the
same time frame change the python infrastructure so python 3 is the default.  And this only
requires 2 weeks?

You are correct, I should have filed a bug report.  In fact I tried as I described above.  I forgot my user id, and
the web interface would not allow me to specify me email address. Then I tried to create a new account and
the web interface said the email address is already used.  What do I do?  Since this started, I spend a couple
of hours reverting to the 2.6 python and pychecker so I can continue to work.  I would have preferred 2.6 get
updated without the python 3 stuff.  Then when that was stable, migrate to python 3.  When I did the update, all
my scripts I've written (several hundred), everything broke because of the python 3 thing.  Then I was starting
to fix them using pychecker, and that broke.  Then trying to file a bug report with a poor web interface, it's a little
much to handle. 

So, now I'm going to wait several weeks to let the smoke clear and try to update then.  I don't think you should
need an account to file a bug report.  It would be nice if it allow this type of behavior.

qfingers

Offline

#61 2010-10-20 22:14:07

Allan
Developer
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,434
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

qfingers wrote:

How many packages rely on python in all the arch repos?  100 ... 200?

Actually around 400...

qfingers wrote:

So your telling
me you allowed a 2 week time frame to test and validate all those packages?  And that is enough time?

Yes...  any further time would be a waste as there had been almost no bug activity for the last week of that.  If the packages in [testing] are not being used by anyone then there is really no point in having them there.

We are bleeding edge.  Note the "bleeding" in that phrase...  Our users are expected to be competent enough to fix their own issues and report the fix to us.

Offline

#62 2010-10-20 22:20:12

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Just to add to what Allan said: not everyone uses Testing so its possible that some packages may have been tested less than others.

Offline

#63 2010-10-20 22:22:36

wonder
Developer
From: Bucharest, Romania
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 5,937
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

@qfingers i would prefer to report it so we can discuss that bug. i was looking at it and indeed i got a out of range errors but i noticed that fedora is using .17 version because .18 was somehow broken [1].

pyckecker gtk for example give errors too, on both arch and fedora, same errror but different than .18

this is not a problem with python being 3.x, is more a problem with pychecker and 2.7 series

[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=469166

i would love to see you in #archlinux-bugs and talk with me. my nickname is ioni or wonder

Last edited by wonder (2010-10-21 02:25:24)


Give what you have. To someone, it may be better than you dare to think.
Blog

Offline

#64 2010-10-20 22:49:12

Hy Ginsberg
Member
From: Massachusetts
Registered: 2008-08-22
Posts: 74
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

I am trying to install the gnome-extra package.  I get:

python2 and python are in conflict (python<3). Remove python? [y/N]

If I answer no, the install fails with "error: unresolvable package conflicts detected" (and a couple of additional messages), and if I answer yes the install fails with a list of packages that require python: hplip, libieee1284, poppler-qt, uzbl-browser.

How do I proceed?

Thanks in advance,
- Hy

Offline

#65 2010-10-20 22:51:05

Allan
Developer
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,434
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Hy Ginsberg wrote:

How do I proceed?

Update.

Offline

#66 2010-10-21 00:43:43

Hy Ginsberg
Member
From: Massachusetts
Registered: 2008-08-22
Posts: 74
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Thank you.  Of course. 

- Hy

Offline

#67 2010-10-21 00:53:50

GSF1200S
Member
Registered: 2008-12-24
Posts: 434

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Unfortunately the upgrade did not go smooth at all for me. Some things like conky modules and gtkpacman broke (easy enough fix just pointing them to python 2), but thats not the biggest problem: when I first start Arch/XFCE, it is fast and flawless; after about an hour, it starts lagging (10 seconds to open a terminal, cant see a right click menu unless I move the mouse up, whole system freezes for 15 seconds, etc). It gets worse and worse until about 3 hours when its simply unusable. I dont see any messages in dmesg or kernel log.

The kernel itself is snappy- if I kill X I have no issues (restarting X is still slow until I reboot). If this was my only install, I wouldnt have updated or I would re-sync with the ARM to fix my issue. Once I get done with midterms I will start filing bug reports, but for now im back on Gentoo sad

Before this update (admittedly this is a BIG update as well), updates have been absolutely painless.

Last edited by GSF1200S (2010-10-21 00:55:34)

Offline

#68 2010-10-21 01:45:50

cb474
Member
Registered: 2009-04-04
Posts: 465

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

wonder wrote:

@Miles28 @qfingers this is not a thread for compiling a list with packages that doesn't work. read the latest news, allan blog post to understand what just happened, try to fix it yourself or ask for help if you fail.

The heading of this thread is: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

I don't see how people's experiences with packages in AUR (which a lot of people rely on) is not part of an impression of how the upgrade to Python 3 went.

I'm finding the reports on what packages are having issues (and how to fix the issues), including those in AUR, very helpful. Not everyone that uses Arch is a developer or coder. I'm an end user and need more guidance to work these things out. I don't know how to fix the problems myself. So seeing where the issues are and what I can expect, before I upgrade is very helpful.

Besides, what is the harm in people reporting these issues? How is it helpful not to report these issues? It seems more useful than the many posts reporting that the upgrade went smoothly. And I don't just want the information fragmented across a bunch of bug reports and in the AUR comments (though it should be there too). Having it all in one place also serves a purpose.

Offline

#69 2010-10-21 06:24:38

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,856

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

@cb474 - all wonder was saying is that this thread is not the place to report issues. We have a bug-tracker for that. Posting issues in the forums is the very definition of fragmenting it.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

Offline

#70 2010-10-21 08:01:06

cb474
Member
Registered: 2009-04-04
Posts: 465

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

ngoonee wrote:

@cb474 - all wonder was saying is that this thread is not the place to report issues. We have a bug-tracker for that. Posting issues in the forums is the very definition of fragmenting it.

It seemed to me that wonder was discouraging Miles28 and qfingers from mentioning in this thread (as they did), which packages they're having trouble with. I didn't see them as reporting issues, I just saw them as offering some information about how the python 3 upgrade has effected them. As I said, I find that useful, to follow in one thread.

Also, the bug tracker doesn't apply to AUR packages, right? Miles28 and others have been talking about packages in AUR.

So again, this thread has been useful to me, to give me a sense of what I'm in for when I do the upgrade. It would be less useful if people weren't mentioning what packages were having issues. Then I'd only find out after I do the upgrade and have problems and have to track down each individual bug report, to say nothing of a lack of a bug tracking system for AUR. And as an end user, it might not even be clear to me if the proplem has to do with the python upgrade. So I'd be searching all over the place. That to me is the definition of fragmentation. Following it all in one thread is useful.

And I really don't see it as an either/or. You can report a bug where appropriate and also mention it here. The thread and the bug tracker serve different purposes.

Offline

#71 2010-10-21 08:09:06

axel668
Member
Registered: 2009-08-15
Posts: 168

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

Miles28 wrote:

Problems with two packages from AUR:
- Adeskbar.
- Decibel Audio Player.

Thanks Miles, completely forgot about decibel ... will have to test it tonight !
UPDATE: Right, update broke it, but the package build seems to be fixed, re- installing from the AUR did the trick for me.

Last edited by axel668 (2010-10-21 16:11:55)


"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."
(Mitch Ratcliffe)

Offline

#72 2010-10-21 08:34:44

LeCrayonVert
Member
Registered: 2010-09-01
Posts: 133

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

I can't build metamorphose2 (a file mass renamer)  from AUR anymore.
I've tried to change python to python2 and add this somewhere in the build() :
find . -type f -name "*.py" -exec sed -i -e "s|env python|env python2|" {} \;

The py files are patched, but the program complains about wxpython at
startup :

wxPython 2.8 is required!
Refer to 'readme_xx.html'  for installation instructions.

though wxpython 2.8.11.0-2 (from extra) is installed....

Any idea ?


I believe in a world I can and do understand. A rational universe, explained through rational means.

Offline

#73 2010-10-21 10:30:04

wonder
Developer
From: Bucharest, Romania
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 5,937
Website

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

@LeCrayonVert patch for metamorphose2. Please post it on aur package details in the comments

--- PKGBUILD~    2010-10-21 13:23:35.164387001 +0300
+++ PKGBUILD    2010-10-21 13:27:38.607720334 +0300
@@ -6,14 +6,19 @@
 arch=(i686 x86_64)
 license=('GPL')
 url="http://file-folder-ren.sourceforge.net"
-depends=('python' 'wxpython')
+depends=('python2' 'wxpython')
 optdepends=('pil: Required for previewing images')
 source=("http://downloads.sourceforge.net/file-folder-ren/metamorphose2_$pkgver.tar.gz")
 md5sums=(e03a93072865b5176ddb4c07af97dd51)
 
 build() {
-  cd $startdir/src/metamorphose2_$pkgver
-  mkdir -p $startdir/pkg/usr/share/man/man1/
-  mkdir -p $startdir/pkg/usr/bin
-  make DESTDIR=$startdir/pkg all || return 1
+  cd $srcdir/metamorphose2_$pkgver
+
+  sed -i -e "s|#![ ]*/usr/bin/python$|#!/usr/bin/python2|" \
+             -e "s|#![ ]*/usr/bin/env python$|#!/usr/bin/env python2|" \
+             $(find ./ -name '*.py')
+  sed -i "s|exec python|exec python2|g" metamorphose2
+
+  install -d $pkgdir/usr/{bin,share/man/man1}
+  make DESTDIR=$pkgdir all
 }

Give what you have. To someone, it may be better than you dare to think.
Blog

Offline

#74 2010-10-21 10:33:35

LeCrayonVert
Member
Registered: 2010-09-01
Posts: 133

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

wonder >> done wink


I believe in a world I can and do understand. A rational universe, explained through rational means.

Offline

#75 2010-10-21 16:20:13

Miles28
Member
From: Spain
Registered: 2008-08-31
Posts: 77

Re: "Python2 & 3 major rebuild" upgrade - impressions ?

axel668 wrote:
Miles28 wrote:

Problems with two packages from AUR:
- Adeskbar.
- Decibel Audio Player.

Thanks Miles, completely forgot about decibel ... will have to test it tonight !
UPDATE: Right, update broke it, but the package build seems to be fixed, re- installing from the AUR did the trick for me.

I don't know if its allowed to say the following neutral, but changing line 18 to:

python2 /usr/share/decibel-audio-player/src/decibel-audio-player.py "$@" &

everything works fine again also.

Last edited by Miles28 (2010-10-21 16:38:04)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB