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#1 2010-10-29 17:58:35

Mad Fish
Member
Registered: 2009-09-22
Posts: 295

Wayland on Arch Linux?

What is Wayland: [official site].
To summarize, this is lean and mean replacement for X server using modern technologies available in Linux kernel. It has a lot of potential comparing to outdated ugly design of X11. That's why it's important for the project to reach potential testers and developers as early as possible. Arch is a bleeding edge distro, and is best suited for such things.

Currently Wayland should run with upstream kernel, mesa, and cairo on Intel hardware (radeon and nouveau drivers are still missing page flipping ioctl).

What is needed (see [this page]):
1. mesa (7.9, currently in [testing]) built with --enable-egl and --enable-gles2.
2. cairo built with --enable-gl.
3. Permissions for users to access kernel input events files and ttys (to run it with user permissions). This is also needed for running X.org as regular user anyway.

So, this is my proposal for Arch Linux devs to make Arch first Wayland-friendly distro.

Last edited by Mad Fish (2010-10-29 18:01:15)

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#2 2010-10-29 18:08:47

Svenstaro
Developer
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-11-19
Posts: 365

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Does it work with r300g? I should have pageflipping. Don't the current wayland aur packages satisfy the needs?

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#3 2010-10-29 18:24:18

Mad Fish
Member
Registered: 2009-09-22
Posts: 295

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Svenstaro wrote:

Does it work with r300g? I should have pageflipping.

Apparently not. Maybe it will support it with Linux kernel 2.6.38, see [this article].

Svenstaro wrote:

Don't the current wayland aur packages satisfy the needs?

They are outdated as hell (created when wayland required special kernel, special drm, special mesa and special cairo smile ). This isn't the case anymore. Wayland can be used with upstream components now, if they are built with necessary flags.

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#4 2010-10-29 18:25:08

Anonymo
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Registered: 2005-04-07
Posts: 419
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Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Mad Fish wrote:

Arch is a bleeding edge distro, and is best suited for such things.

Can you make some packages that work in AUR, show the devs that Wayland is ready?  Just because Arch is bleeding edge doesn't mean the devs use ANY new software that comes along.  It has to work for the majority of the users, including myself.  Which is why I use Arch in the first place.  Where other distros fail, Arch succeeds.  The best way I think you can help is to make some working PKGBUILDS, if they don't exist already, show that Wayland is working with Intel, nvidia and ATI for the most part.  The reason I say this is because the devs are a small group.  I've seen how many packages most of them maintain; while I search through the packages, some devs are maintaining over 4 pages of the packages listed.  The devs are all volunteering their time and that's why I think you need to start this project, getting it going and then show the community the value Wayland brings.

Last edited by Anonymo (2010-10-29 18:27:20)

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#5 2010-10-29 18:27:49

vr4b4c
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Registered: 2008-12-30
Posts: 24

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Does it work with nvidia proprietary graphic card driver??

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#6 2010-10-29 18:40:26

Mad Fish
Member
Registered: 2009-09-22
Posts: 295

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Anonymo wrote:

Can you make some packages that work in AUR, show the devs that Wayland is ready?  Just because Arch is bleeding edge doesn't mean the devs use ANY new software that comes along.  It has to work for the majority of the users, including myself.  Which is why I use Arch in the first place.  Where other distros fail, Arch succeeds.  The best way I think you can help is to make some working PKGBUILDS, if they don't exist already, show that Wayland is working with Intel, nvidia and ATI for the most part.  The reason I say this is because the devs are a small group.  I've seen how many packages most of them maintain; while I search through the packages, some devs are maintaining over 4 pages of the packages listed.  The devs are all volunteering their time and that's why I think you need to start this project, getting it going and then show the community the value Wayland brings.

My proposal is not to include Wayland in the repos. It is an experimental software and WILL NOT work for everyone. What I'm asking for, is to compile stock packages with needed flags (+ tweak permissions to run it as regular user).

vr4b4c wrote:

Does it work with nvidia proprietary graphic card driver??

No, since NVIDIA uses their own graphic stack totally different from open source drivers. They don't have even KMS now (that is sad, because I'm also NVIDIA user mostly and their driver is actually really good).
For now, only Intel graphic cards are supported. Support for ATI and NVIDIA open source drivers is just a matter of time, though.

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#7 2010-10-30 05:33:52

Anonymo
Member
Registered: 2005-04-07
Posts: 419
Website

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

@ madfish http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n … &px=ODczNQ

Soon your wish might be a reality.  As soon as it's all usable, I'm sure the devs and the community will look into it.

Last edited by Anonymo (2010-10-30 05:34:23)

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#8 2010-10-30 09:04:57

drcouzelis
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From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 3,473
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Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Mad Fish wrote:

My proposal is not to include Wayland in the repos. It is an experimental software and WILL NOT work for everyone. What I'm asking for, is to compile stock packages with needed flags (+ tweak permissions to run it as regular user).

Have you contacted the maintainers of the those packages?

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#9 2010-10-31 09:56:27

Giselher
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-02-02
Posts: 150
Website

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Hy guise,

I worked on the wayland-git pkgbuild and I am now doing a test build with cairo, mesa 7.9 and wayland.

If I get it working I will post the pkgbuilds asap.

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#10 2010-10-31 10:13:35

Giselher
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From: Austria
Registered: 2010-02-02
Posts: 150
Website

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Oi, I just noticed I can't even run it with nouveau. yikes

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#11 2010-10-31 10:21:15

wonder
Developer
From: Bucharest, Romania
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 5,937
Website

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Giselher wrote:

Oi, I just noticed I can't even run it with nouveau. yikes

it says clearly will not work with nouveau. nouveau doesn't support page flipping or whatever is called. Only intel has that feature and in the future, nouveau and ati


Give what you have. To someone, it may be better than you dare to think.
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#12 2010-10-31 10:28:11

combuster
Member
From: Serbia
Registered: 2008-09-30
Posts: 711
Website

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Mad Fish wrote:

What is needed (see [this page]):
1. mesa (7.9, currently in [testing]) built with --enable-egl and --enable-gles2.
2. cairo built with --enable-gl.
3. Permissions for users to access kernel input events files and ttys (to run it with user permissions). This is also needed for running X.org as regular user anyway.

My proposal is not to include Wayland in the repos. It is an experimental software and WILL NOT work for everyone. What I'm asking for, is to compile stock packages with needed flags (+ tweak permissions to run it as regular user).

There wouldn't be a problem to rebuild those packages (mesa and cairo with needed flags) in AUR also in case the devs for some reason can't include those flags. I will give it a shot in the next few days anyway, GM965 here.

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#13 2010-10-31 12:25:44

litemotiv
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2008-08-01
Posts: 5,026

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

This is not an Arch discussion, moving to AUR Issues, Discussion and PKGBUILD Requests.

Packages that have proven their worth wil be promoted to official in due time, there's no point in asking for it here.


ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ

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#14 2010-11-05 10:09:36

Vermillion
Member
From: Switzerland
Registered: 2010-08-13
Posts: 43

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Does someone have any expirience using wayland with catalyst (10.10)? I'll propably try wayland over the weekend but just wondering if i should take care of something

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#15 2010-11-05 10:13:22

wonder
Developer
From: Bucharest, Romania
Registered: 2006-07-05
Posts: 5,937
Website

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Vermillion wrote:

Does someone have any expirience using wayland with catalyst (10.10)? I'll propably try wayland over the weekend but just wondering if i should take care of something


for 9999999999 time, wayland works only on drivers that uses KMS and some page-flipping stuff that only Intel has at this moment. catalyst and nvidia doesn't support KMS therefor wayland would not work

Last edited by wonder (2010-11-05 10:13:57)


Give what you have. To someone, it may be better than you dare to think.
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#16 2010-11-05 10:26:05

Vermillion
Member
From: Switzerland
Registered: 2010-08-13
Posts: 43

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

wonder wrote:

for 9999999999 time, wayland works only on drivers that uses KMS and some page-flipping stuff that only Intel has at this moment. catalyst and nvidia doesn't support KMS therefor wayland would not work

Okay catalyst won't work but radeon uses KMS and there is a (experimental) patch for page-flipping...
But looks like to much work for just playing around with something new at the moment

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#17 2010-11-05 12:46:04

combuster
Member
From: Serbia
Registered: 2008-09-30
Posts: 711
Website

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

OK, about PKGBUILDS for mesa, cairo and wayland,  constant earthquakes and upcoming wedding and other obligations are preventing me from touching this for another two weeks at least. It's relatively easy but I don't have the time for propper testing.

/edit: Hey, it's in AUR smile Nice... Silly me...

Last edited by combuster (2010-11-05 17:35:03)

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#18 2010-11-05 16:25:24

tvale
Member
From: Palmela, Portugal
Registered: 2008-12-11
Posts: 169

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Since this is side by side with X, this means the current window managers and stuff need porting. Right?


archlinux x86_64 @ Asus UL30A

dwm and patches
conky-dzen

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#19 2010-11-06 09:18:39

ppawel
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2010-09-25
Posts: 2

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

tvale wrote:

Since this is side by side with X, this means the current window managers and stuff need porting. Right?

There is a good FAQ-like page on Ubuntu Wiki about Wayland:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Wayland

Your question is also answered there.

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#20 2010-11-06 10:19:30

tvale
Member
From: Palmela, Portugal
Registered: 2008-12-11
Posts: 169

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Yeah, it's just as I thought. Thanks for the link!


archlinux x86_64 @ Asus UL30A

dwm and patches
conky-dzen

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#21 2010-11-07 16:30:10

Giselher
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-02-02
Posts: 150
Website

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Yay, I got wayland working.

I mainly compiled the packages with ABS from testing.

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#22 2010-11-07 17:15:09

ludovico
Member
From: Oslo, Norway
Registered: 2008-08-24
Posts: 75

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

And... What is it like? Got a WM running?


Sin? What's all this about sin?

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#23 2010-11-07 17:29:02

Giselher
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-02-02
Posts: 150
Website

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Well, no WM at the moment supports Wayland, but compiz is thinking about putting their X11 bindings into a sepperate plugin to make it easier to create wayland bindings. And also a few people are working on Qt and GTK. They're somewhat working.

At the moment I won't even recommend testing it, because you almost need everything from git.
Wayland needs a lot fresh opengl stuff that will come  wtih mesa 7.10 and next cairo release.

EDIT:

A init-rc like (xinitrc) would be awesome.

Last edited by Giselher (2010-11-07 17:30:41)

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#24 2010-11-09 13:19:24

Dieter@be
Forum Fellow
From: Belgium
Registered: 2006-11-05
Posts: 1,959
Website

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Giselher wrote:

A init-rc like (xinitrc) would be awesome.

Even better: expose bindings/hooks/events.
So you could do:

on_start () {
# start your apps
}
before_stop() {
# close your apps, save sessions, whatever, ..
}

< Daenyth> and he works prolifically
4 8 15 16 23 42

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#25 2010-11-15 00:21:11

JeremyJ
Member
Registered: 2010-10-24
Posts: 6

Re: Wayland on Arch Linux?

Giselher wrote:

At the moment I won't even recommend testing it, because you almost need everything from git.
Wayland needs a lot fresh opengl stuff that will come  wtih mesa 7.10 and next cairo release.

According to OP, as well as (I think) the developer of wayland, the versions of cairo and mesa that are available in [extra] and [testing] respectively are fine, as long as you add a couple of build flags.

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