Haiku / BeOS

Hide · 2010-12-07 15:32:07

An idea crossed my mind today: It would be cool if the devs released some sort of minimal installation. Not that I think Haiku's slow or bloated, I just don't need all the default apps. I wonder how flexible it'll be once ready.

drcouzelis · 2010-12-07 16:14:23

flamelab wrote:

Ι would really like a package management system in Haiku, the current one is really in it's early infancy...

You mean the "installoptionalpackage" command? Oh my, yes, I wouldn't even call it a package manager.

You can read more about their ideas here, including a section on porting pacman: http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/PackageManagerIdeas

Some of the concepts they're considering that are my favorite are:

. The base operating system remains "clean" in its own directory
. Anyone can install a package without administrative privileges
. Different versions of the same package can coexist
. Packages can come from both a repository and stand-alone

drcouzelis · 2010-12-07 16:34:48

Hide wrote:

An idea crossed my mind today: It would be cool if the devs released some sort of minimal installation. Not that I think Haiku's slow or bloated, I just don't need all the default apps. I wonder how flexible it'll be once ready.

The default location for installed applications is "/boot/system/apps/". If you want to uninstall an application, just go there and delete the application folder. (You may also want to delete the deskbar link)

Even so, you won't find things such as the teapot demo in that folder. I'm not sure where things like that are located in the default installation, but the Haiku search system is instant and uninstalling those applications, too, is as simple as deleting the application folder.

You made me think, though, I wonder what the developers will decide to include (and where) in the default installation.

Mr. Alex · 2010-12-07 16:59:45

Is Haiku usable today on a real computer? It's still beta but maybe it's possible to work with it?

Last edited by Mr. Alex (2010-12-08 09:38:42)

drcouzelis · 2010-12-07 18:04:15

Mr. Alex wrote:

It Haiku usable today on a real computer? It's still beta but maybe it's possible to work with it?

It depends on what you want to use your computer for.

. Internet - It has a good webkit based web browser called WebPositive. It's very fast. Most websites work well, including Gmail and Facebook.

. Network - It has wireless network support, but I don't think all types of encryption are supported yet.

. Music - It has a good MP3 player with playlist.

. Video - It has a good video player. Sometimes I'll using the "youtube-dl" script to download videos from YouTube and watch them, but the last time I used it there wasn't support for FLV videos. (MP4 videos worked)

. Photos - You can view photos. Haiku also "comes with" the WonderBrush image editing software, which is shareware.

. Software development - Haiku has gcc, gdb, Python, Perl, Bash, and other programming and scripting languages. It also has good programming editors.

. Flash drives - I can use my FAT32 flash drives, although some of my USB ports didn't work.

. Easy to setup - Haiku is easy to install and start using.

. Stable - It doesn't usually crash, and I don't think there are any open "data corruption" bugs.

Things that aren't so good on Haiku include:

. Hardware - Lots of hardware is supported, but a lot of hardware isn't supported.

. Word processing - There's no word processing software.

. Chat - I haven't found a really good chat program for my Google / Hotmail / Facebook accounts. I don't know if WebPositive supports web based chat sites yet.

. Games - I've played about two games on Haiku. If I wanted to use my computer to play games, I wouldn't use Haiku.

. Flash - I hate Flash. Whatever.

So, if you want to casually browse the internet and do some programming while listening to music, then Haiku is totally ready. Also, Haiku does everything really fast.

This is a small list. If you would like more information about doing something in Haiku, please ask me.

Mr. Alex · 2010-12-08 09:48:09

Looks like Mac OS X. Stable and "easy-to-use" for client machines. But not serious for serious IT guys.

Howitzer · 2010-12-09 14:23:57

Mr. Alex wrote:

Looks like Mac OS X. Stable and "easy-to-use" for client machines. But not serious for serious IT guys.

Imho the opposite seems true. I view Haiku as Mac OS X for serious IT guys. It has loads of functions (already or yet to be implemented) that are both very technical but also easy to use..

Mr. Alex · 2010-12-09 15:28:17

But GNU/Linux is more complicated, right?

Last edited by Mr. Alex (2010-12-09 15:28:32)

drcouzelis · 2010-12-09 18:07:09

Howitzer wrote:

Mr. Alex wrote:
Looks like Mac OS X. Stable and "easy-to-use" for client machines. But not serious for serious IT guys.
Imho the opposite seems true. I view Haiku as Mac OS X for serious IT guys. It has loads of functions (already or yet to be implemented) that are both very technical but also easy to use..

I started learning about and using Haiku for two main reasons: everything, including the kernel, the GUI, and the programming API, are designed and written by the same group of people, (Like Mac OS X) and it is free and open source software. (Like GNU/Linux)

Haiku was also designed to be an easy to use desktop operating system, so, yes, it shares that quality with Mac OS X.

Although Haiku is not Unix, (It's actually very far from Unix) it does come with a terminal application that allows you to use the Bash prompt and standard Unix commands. In that sense, Haiku is also similar to Mac OS X, because it has an easy to use GUI and also a powerful collection of technical tools.

I suppose whether or not Haiku could be used by "serious IT guys" depends on what those guys want to do.

Mr. Alex wrote:

But GNU/Linux is more complicated, right?

I think Haiku is less complicated than most GNU/Linux distributions because it has fewer "layers", which matches the definition of "Simplicity" in the Arch Way. Even so, one difference between Haiku and Arch Linux is that Haiku was designed from the beginning to be a complete desktop operating system with an easy to use GUI.

So, for example, in Arch Linux, changing the timezone is a matter of simply changing a line in the "/etc/rc.conf" file. In Haiku, changing the timezone is matter of simply selecting a timezone from a list found in the "Time" preferences dialog, which uses the standard Haiku GUI, which can be selected from the standard "Deskbar -> Preferences" menu.

So, to answer your question, I don't believe either Haiku or Arch Linux are complicated, but one of them has a lot higher learning curve than the other.

Runiq · 2010-12-09 18:19:53

drcouzelis wrote:

[…]

What you just described sounds like a cross between Mac OS and BSD to me. Not that I'm familiar with either, but still.

Can't wait until they put this thing out for us to download. Hurry along, Haiku devs!

Mr. Alex · 2010-12-09 18:41:29

So, for example, in Arch Linux, changing the timezone is a matter of simply changing a line in the "/etc/rc.conf" file. In Haiku, changing the timezone is matter of simply selecting a timezone from a list found in the "Time" preferences dialog, which uses the standard Haiku GUI, which can be selected from the standard "Deskbar -> Preferences" menu.

But in Arch we also have and sometimes write (boot) scripts. Are there any in Haiku?

Howitzer · 2010-12-09 20:11:47

On an off subject note:
When I try to dd a haiku anybootimage to an usbstick, it consistently fails to boot.

How do you guys do it?

drcouzelis · 2010-12-09 20:14:20

Mr. Alex wrote:

But in Arch we also have and sometimes write (boot) scripts. Are there any in Haiku?

Sure, there's something similar.

In Haiku, the root of the operating system is "/boot/".

"/boot/system/" is the operating system.
"/boot/common/" is for applications and settings that are shared for all users.
"/boot/home/" is the user's home directory. When Haiku gets multiuser support, this will be replaced with "/boot/your_username/".

There is a user boot script and a user shutdown script in "~/config/boot/". See http://haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/b … er-scripts

There is also a "launch" folder located at "~/config/boot/launch/". When the OS finishes loading, anything in the launch folder will be run. See http://haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/f … .html#home

When Haiku gets multiuser support, I believe there will also be a "boot/" folder in "/boot/common/config/" that is shared for all users.

There are also "system add-ons", which I don't have any experience with.

In summary, settings, applications, and system add-ons can be added at a the system level, shared-between-users level, or user level.

drcouzelis · 2010-12-09 20:22:00

Howitzer wrote:

On an off subject note:
When I try to dd a haiku anybootimage to an usbstick, it consistently fails to boot.
How do you guys do it?

That's a good question.

I burn the anyboot image to a CD-RW, boot from it, and install it to my hard drive.

Did you follow the USB stick installation instructions found here?

What computer are you trying to boot it on? Can you give more details about what happens when you try to boot from the USB drive?

Howitzer · 2010-12-10 00:00:42

I follow the instructions under the Linux/BSD header.
(e.g. sudo dd if=haiku-r1alpha2-anyboot.image of=/dev/sdc bs=1M)

When booting, after POST it shows a blinking cursor, which keeps on blinking until I reboot (without USB key ofc).

I've used several USB sticks, several USB ports and even several computers to boot and dd from.

My system:
- Asrock P4V88 motherboard (that supports booting from USB, as tested with older Arch installs)
- Pentium 4 Prescott 3.0 ghz
- Nvidia 6600GT
- 1256 mb of DDR ram.

Note: Booting from USB has become troubled the past year or so. Before that, I never had any troubles. (Wasn't familiar with Haiku back then)
Maybe it's a hardware problem, or maybe it's a certain method they use for usb-images now. (I had a lot of problems dd'ing the current Arch linux image, but the previous image worked great.)

Last edited by Howitzer (2010-12-10 14:44:12)

once · 2010-12-10 11:14:28

same problem here, usb cant boot...

stryder · 2010-12-11 04:45:18

Wow, it's really fast. Using virtualbox ATM. Am definitely playing around with it to see how useful it can be.

drcouzelis · 2010-12-31 14:24:49

Howitzer wrote:

I follow the instructions under the Linux/BSD header.
(e.g. sudo dd if=haiku-r1alpha2-anyboot.image of=/dev/sdc bs=1M)
When booting, after POST it shows a blinking cursor, which keeps on blinking until I reboot (without USB key ofc).
I've used several USB sticks, several USB ports and even several computers to boot and dd from.
Note: Booting from USB has become troubled the past year or so. Before that, I never had any troubles. (Wasn't familiar with Haiku back then)
Maybe it's a hardware problem, or maybe it's a certain method they use for usb-images now. (I had a lot of problems dd'ing the current Arch linux image, but the previous image worked great.)

I always use a CD-RW to install Haiku, but I just tried using a USB flash drive to install it instead. It didn't work for me. After BIOS, my computer would just reboot. By the way, this is the first time I've tried booting from a USB flash drive.

I'm sorry I couldn't help you. I recommend asking on the Haiku General Mailing List. The developers are friendly and can help you better than I can.

drcouzelis · 2012-11-12 07:23:06

For those following this thread, Haiku R1-Alpha4 has just been released.

http://www.haiku-os.org/news/2012-11-12 … _1_alpha_4

There's been many nice improvements. It runs great on my other partition.

I apologize for double posting.

Grinch · 2012-11-12 09:17:38

Yeah just saw, very nice. Too bad that the package management contracts had to be postponed though, it's likely the major hurdle preventing a r1 final release.

Jristz · 2012-11-12 16:57:06

The only think that I like about Haiku is they GUI
is wonderful 'I like it!'

Arch Linux

#101 2010-12-07 15:32:07

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#102 2010-12-07 16:14:23

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#103 2010-12-07 16:34:48

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#104 2010-12-07 16:59:45

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#105 2010-12-07 18:04:15

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#106 2010-12-08 09:48:09

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#107 2010-12-09 14:23:57

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#108 2010-12-09 15:28:17

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#109 2010-12-09 18:07:09

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#110 2010-12-09 18:19:53

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#111 2010-12-09 18:41:29

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#112 2010-12-09 20:11:47

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#113 2010-12-09 20:14:20

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#114 2010-12-09 20:22:00

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#115 2010-12-10 00:00:42

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#116 2010-12-10 11:14:28

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#117 2010-12-11 04:45:18

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#118 2010-12-31 14:24:49

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#119 2012-11-12 07:23:06

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#120 2012-11-12 09:17:38

Re: Haiku / BeOS

#121 2012-11-12 16:57:06

Re: Haiku / BeOS

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