Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

ninjaaron · 2010-12-10 16:44:32

So, I'm thinking about trying to put Arch Linux on a partition to force myself into a more "intimate" relationship with Linux, while still using Ubuntu as my primary operating system.

So far, I've been using Ubuntu for two years and kinda treading water in terms of actually understanding the system. I understand what my system is doing only slightly better than they average 'tech-savy windows user' might, which is to say that I am quite good manipulating the GUI, have customised a couple of configuration files (though nothing really essential to the system), and can get some basic tasks done from the command line. I've managed to figure out how to do custom booting and partitioning for multiple operating systems as well, but relying heavily on GUI tools. I have no idea how to, say, do a full hardware configuration, or even get the gnome GUI up and running from a console. I have used a couple of command line tools to listen to music, watch movies, and browse the web, but not much more. Last but not least, I'm terrified of vim and emacs. I can usually bend nano to my will if I must, but if edit any system files, it will normally be in gedit.

I want to fix all of that, and I think Arch might force me to learn it all properly.

Is it biting off more than I can chew? Is there a better way to learn Linux, or perhaps a distro that would be more conducive to my goal?

I'm no pro, I just want to learn.

Last edited by ninjaaron (2010-12-10 17:40:10)

drcouzelis · 2010-12-10 17:06:07

ninjaaron wrote:

Is it biting off more than I can chew?

The more important question, in my opinion, is, do you like to read?

Last edited by drcouzelis (2010-12-10 17:06:57)

AlexS · 2010-12-10 17:06:24

You have already more than enough experience to start playing with Arch Linux. Just take your time to follow the beginner's guide, and it should be easy.

Don't bother with vim or emacs if you don't feel curious about discovering them. Eventually you'll come to try those programs, when you're comfortable enough with the system.

All in all, it only looks hard if you try to learn everything at once. If you follow the guide, and are a bit pragmatic, you'll never be in a bind.

BaconPie · 2010-12-10 17:23:58

drcouzelis wrote:

do you like to read?

This! The beginners guide is _so_ good.

As far as vim goes, I say go for it. When the installer said "Vim, Joe or Nano?" I just told myself to go for it. After checking out some guides on the net it really isn't that hard.

When you start off you're in 'edit' mode so you can do stuff like delete characters (x), delete whole lines (dd), yank/copy lines (y), paste them (p), move around (hjkl or arrow keys).

To insert a character before the cursor you press i, to insert after the cursor press a. Press escape to exit that mode.

To issue program commands, while in edit mode, type colon (:) then your command:

:q = quit
:q! = force quit (cute)
:w = save
:wq = save and quit

It's designed to be controlled mostly by the letter keys both for speed (when you're used to it) and keyboards with just characters on them (hence the hjkl move around buttons). Maybe later you can get it to do syntax highlighting.

Also, I only really edit system files with vim. For most things (web pages, scripts) I use gedit too.

ninjaaron · 2010-12-10 17:42:54

drcouzelis wrote:

ninjaaron wrote:
Is it biting off more than I can chew?
The more important question, in my opinion, is, do you like to read?

I love to read. Unfortunately, I only have one computer, so I can't check the beginner's guide while I'm doing the install. I have to use the 'real' install guide in another console which seems a bit more difficult to follow for the uninitiated (and by that I mean 'for me').

.:B:. · 2010-12-10 17:47:24

You can always print important bits. Once you get network up and running it's not that difficult to get a basic GUI going (installing packages, googling X configuration options if must be, and off you go).

Awebb · 2010-12-10 18:00:06

ninjaaron wrote:

Unfortunately, I only have one computer, so I can't check the beginner's guide while I'm doing the install.

You actually can. On my first attempt, I printed all the guides I thought I might need, as .:B:. said. I soon found out I don't need them at all. Once the network was up and running, I browsed the Arch wiki with links (a cli web browser). The Arch wiki is impressingly usable with such browsers. So you only need to print the Beginner's Guide. Every thing else is just a tty away.

davidm · 2010-12-10 18:05:21

ninjaaron wrote:

drcouzelis wrote:
ninjaaron wrote:
Is it biting off more than I can chew?
The more important question, in my opinion, is, do you like to read?
I love to read. Unfortunately, I only have one computer, so I can't check the beginner's guide while I'm doing the install. I have to use the 'real' install guide in another console which seems a bit more difficult to follow for the uninitiated (and by that I mean 'for me').

You can do it. Print out what you must or at least up to a certain point. Read through the entire thing once prior to doing it and make sure you understand it.

What I like to recommend for people who are wanting to go from brand new to Linux to Highly experienced in 2.5 years is:

1. 6 - 12 months Ubuntu

2. 6 months Slackware

3. 6 months Arch Linux (learn emacs, vi, and at least 1 alternate Window Manager or Desktop Environment at this point)

4. 6 months Gentoo

5. Build your own "Linux From Scratch" install and successfully upgrade and maintain it for 6 months. (This is more of a test)

Then you're truly a Linux ninja. Using Arch will teach you a lot without question.

Last edited by davidm (2010-12-10 18:06:22)

ninjaaron · 2010-12-10 19:20:27

Well, linux ninjitsu would be idea.

What would you say if I did what you said here, but just skipped out on the slackware and the gentoo?

I've had this secret crazy dream of doing LFS for a while... I even have the book on my hard-drive, but I knew I could never pull it off at my current level of knowledge.

Hence: Arch

singral · 2010-12-10 19:40:27

ninjaaron wrote:

drcouzelis wrote:
ninjaaron wrote:
Is it biting off more than I can chew?
The more important question, in my opinion, is, do you like to read?
I love to read. Unfortunately, I only have one computer, so I can't check the beginner's guide while I'm doing the install. I have to use the 'real' install guide in another console which seems a bit more difficult to follow for the uninitiated (and by that I mean 'for me').

When you finish installing basic arch install elinks(cli web browser) on your system if you have internet. That way you can read guild in 1 cli screen and do stuff on other

hwkiller · 2010-12-10 19:40:44

I think it's a great idea. I went straight from ubuntu to Arch for the same reason and I definitely feel much more knowledgeable about how Linux operates. The wiki is fantastic, and especially so the the beginner's guide.

I also recommend that after installing and learning about what components make up a linux desktop (file hierarchy, Xorg, DE/WM, etc), to experiment with little things. Try out abs, try making your own pacman package, make your own Udev rules for auto-mounting (a process that I'll soon begin, since HAL is gone now), etc. I've done other things too, like put a usable Arch installation onto a 2gb usb drive.
Just playing around with what you know is probably the best way to strengthen your current knowledge and facilitate the learning of other topics.

Misfit138 · 2010-12-10 19:47:57

Go for it. The resources are really the best available. No other distro has such comprehensive documentation; it is of the highest quality and literally step-by-step.

davidm · 2010-12-10 19:49:37

ninjaaron wrote:

Well, linux ninjitsu would be idea.
What would you say if I did what you said here, but just skipped out on the slackware and the gentoo?
I've had this secret crazy dream of doing LFS for a while... I even have the book on my hard-drive, but I knew I could never pull it off at my current level of knowledge.
Hence: Arch

Well that is only my personal guide. I've actually seen people on this forum claim to go from Windows (and no real previous Linux experience) to Arch successfully. I think it really depends on how technical you are and how hard you're willing to try.

I put slackware in there because it's package managers usually don't track dependencies like Debian/Ubuntu does. The default Slackware install is pretty easy then but adding stuff will help you learn about dependencies more and how they work. And it'll help you get off any reliance you have on .deb packages coming from Ubuntu. It also gives you some experience with one of the earliest Linux Distributions.

As for Gentoo, I put that after Arch to act as kind of a transition into LFS (source based entirely). It shows you the difference between binary and source based distros -- although Arch or even Ubuntu can be entirely built from source too, in theory. The idea is by the end of it you would have a good idea of what you like best having had time to try most of the major distros and of various types.

You can do anything you like.

Last edited by davidm (2010-12-10 20:05:09)

Cyrusm · 2010-12-10 21:19:17

ninja, you already have more experience than I had when I first installed Arch (I'd been casually using Ubuntu for about 6 months)
If you are only working with one computer. print out a hard copy of the beginners guide, and make sure to research what hardware you have on your computer.

This is exceptionally important for graphics and networking. these will probably (hopefully not!) be the areas that trip up your install.

ElderSnake · 2010-12-10 22:51:13

I actually used Gentoo for a bit even before Arch a fair while back

So I guess that helped me, although the whole Gentoo installation was done more than a year ago, but nevertheless with a primary Ubuntu background (in terms of Linux) and a little of Fedora, I found Arch pretty easy myself, especially with that wonderful documentation and I have learnt a lot already.

However for me it's not just the learning experience. I actually find Arch to be a wonderful distro and I'd say my main distro of choice now, for myself personally anyway. I love that I feel I know everything that is in my system and I have complete control over it.

Perhaps most Arch/Gentoo/Slackware users are also control freaks? I'm not sure, but I love the way Arch goes about things.

Last edited by ElderSnake (2010-12-10 22:53:12)

hokasch · 2010-12-10 23:10:58

If you want to print out stuff, "Nuke Anything Advanced" is a great firefox addon to pick together the bits you need (Allows you to hide almost anything via context menu 'Remove Object').

csheppard93 · 2010-12-10 23:27:38

before I installed I read over the beginners guide and then wrote down the parts that I needed to get from inserting the livecd to having a working lxde install. then read the wiki for anything else I needed and for any tweaking

jowilkin · 2010-12-11 00:37:50

Why not try an install in VirtualBox or some other VM first so that you have access to the guides and such while you are installing and configuring things?

CountDuckula · 2010-12-11 04:10:15

You should throw a BSD into the mix for experience too.

jt512 · 2010-12-11 07:58:49

ninjaaron wrote:

drcouzelis wrote:
ninjaaron wrote:
Is it biting off more than I can chew?
The more important question, in my opinion, is, do you like to read?
I love to read. Unfortunately, I only have one computer, so I can't check the beginner's guide while I'm doing the install.

Um, do you have a printer?

Jay

smithr.michael1997 · 2010-12-11 19:52:22

jowilkin wrote:

Why not try an install in VirtualBox or some other VM first so that you have access to the guides and such while you are installing and configuring things?

Ditto

Arch Linux

#1 2010-12-10 16:44:32

Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#2 2010-12-10 17:06:07

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#3 2010-12-10 17:06:24

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#4 2010-12-10 17:23:58

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#5 2010-12-10 17:42:54

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#6 2010-12-10 17:47:24

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#7 2010-12-10 18:00:06

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#8 2010-12-10 18:05:21

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#9 2010-12-10 19:20:27

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#10 2010-12-10 19:40:27

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#11 2010-12-10 19:40:44

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#12 2010-12-10 19:47:57

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#13 2010-12-10 19:49:37

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#14 2010-12-10 21:19:17

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#15 2010-12-10 22:51:13

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#16 2010-12-10 23:10:58

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#17 2010-12-10 23:27:38

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#18 2010-12-11 00:37:50

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#19 2010-12-11 04:10:15

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#20 2010-12-11 07:58:49

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

#21 2010-12-11 19:52:22

Re: Want to learn GNU/Linux for real. Thinking of trying Arch.

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