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#1 2005-05-13 10:59:56

kcy29581
Member
From: CA
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 231

Your opinions on AUR

Hi all,

I noticed that there isn't a poll about how users feel about AUR. I for one like the idea and use it so it's obvious what I voted for...

.:edit:.

dibble added a poll option - hope it helps


There is no spoon in Arch...

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#2 2005-05-13 11:32:28

pixel
Member
From: Living in the Server Room
Registered: 2005-02-21
Posts: 119

Re: Your opinions on AUR

It would be nice also to have binary packages along with PKGBUILD's in AUR.
BTW i voted yes...


Favorite systems: ArchLinux, OpenBSD
"Yes, I love UNIX"

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#3 2005-05-13 11:32:43

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: Your opinions on AUR

You're missing the 'im notall too sure yet, i want to see how it pans out' option

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#4 2005-05-13 11:36:52

kcy29581
Member
From: CA
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 231

Re: Your opinions on AUR

iphitus, good suggestion. how on earth do you edit the blasted poll?


There is no spoon in Arch...

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#5 2005-05-13 12:00:27

Moo-Crumpus
Member
From: Hessen / Germany
Registered: 2003-12-01
Posts: 1,443

Re: Your opinions on AUR

I don't feel very comfortable using the AUR. Pacman fetches only parts of it.


Frumpus addict
[mu'.krum.pus], [frum.pus]

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#6 2005-05-13 12:04:49

kcy29581
Member
From: CA
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 231

Re: Your opinions on AUR

Pink Chick wrote:

I don't feel very comfortable using the AUR. Pacman fetches only parts of it.

What do you mean? Isn't it just another type of repo?


There is no spoon in Arch...

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#7 2005-05-13 12:53:19

sweiss
Member
Registered: 2004-02-16
Posts: 635

Re: Your opinions on AUR

I may be missing out something here, but I can't find an easier way to search for packages in 'unsupported' rather than through the website. Being able to access it through the command line would be nice.

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#8 2005-05-13 14:51:08

Moo-Crumpus
Member
From: Hessen / Germany
Registered: 2003-12-01
Posts: 1,443

Re: Your opinions on AUR

kcy29581 wrote:
Pink Chick wrote:

I don't feel very comfortable using the AUR. Pacman fetches only parts of it.

What do you mean? Isn't it just another type of repo?

f.e. at the web page, I can see there is hardware-monitor, in an "unsupported" mode. Try to get it:

$ sudo pacman -Sy hardware-monitor
:: Synchronizing package databases...
:: current is up to date
:: extra is up to date
:: community is up to date
hardware-monitor: not found in sync db

No surprise, some packages are inside a community repo (that is pacmanized), some are not. I don't like this separation of packages, where some can be fetched using pacman, while others  have to be pulled down manually very much.


Frumpus addict
[mu'.krum.pus], [frum.pus]

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#9 2005-05-13 15:09:05

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Your opinions on AUR

ok, because no one seems to understand, I'll throw out a big ol' description:
the AUR and community repo are linked, but not the same.  The AUR is a place for PKGBUILDs, allowing users to vote on them.  The community repo is a place for PKGBUILDs from the AUR that have gotten enough votes.
This is for a number of reasons:
a) It's impossible to validate and verify all the PKGBUILDs submitted to AUR.  It'd be very easy for someone to make a PKGBUILD which runs "mke2fs /dev/hda1" in an install file.
b) Sometimes there are PKGBUILDs which no one cares about.  In these cases, it's a waste of disk space and maintainer time to create a package.

Those who used to be TURs are now AUR maintainers.

So, for all you people who don't use the AUR - if you want a package, and it's in the AUR, please vote for it.  That way, it will eventually end up in the community repo.

As for syncing the AUR with abs, that's been debated quite alot.  I feel it's worthwhile (at least for me), however, alot of people feel it's insecure (see "a" above), and will mislead users into thinking they're secure.

Any questions about the AUR, please ask...

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#10 2005-05-13 15:27:07

Moo-Crumpus
Member
From: Hessen / Germany
Registered: 2003-12-01
Posts: 1,443

Re: Your opinions on AUR

phrakture wrote:

So, for all you people who don't use the AUR - if you want a package, and it's in the AUR, please vote for it.  That way, it will eventually end up in the community repo.

vote? how? wiki :idea:


Frumpus addict
[mu'.krum.pus], [frum.pus]

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#11 2005-05-13 15:32:11

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Your opinions on AUR

Pink Chick wrote:
phrakture wrote:

So, for all you people who don't use the AUR - if you want a package, and it's in the AUR, please vote for it.  That way, it will eventually end up in the community repo.

vote? how? wiki :idea:

ummm, sign up for an account, then when you're browsing packages, check the little box and hit "vote" at the top

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#12 2005-05-13 18:51:46

kcy29581
Member
From: CA
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 231

Re: Your opinions on AUR

Ok... phrak, I have a question then. If AUR isn't as secure as the stable and extra repos, am I to assume that it WON'T be the way forward for Arch? Because if Arch's STABLE number of packages is to grow, this cannot grow on a back of an unstable ladder. If AUR's PKGBUILDs can indeed carry a command that could wipe out a partition, then surely the way forward would be to add more packages to Arch's official repos?
The above concern is why I never trusted TUR's too much, but I thought that AUR would have some "official" backing.
Sorry if I got anything wrong...


There is no spoon in Arch...

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#13 2005-05-13 18:59:14

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: Your opinions on AUR

I am still undecided.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#14 2005-05-13 19:11:09

ozar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2005-02-18
Posts: 1,681

Re: Your opinions on AUR

cactus wrote:

I am still undecided.

Me, too - I'm gonna have to wait and see.   :?


oz

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#15 2005-05-13 19:38:25

Gullible Jones
Member
Registered: 2004-12-29
Posts: 4,863

Re: Your opinions on AUR

I think it's awesome. It's nice to have all the maintained PKGBUILDs in one place...

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#16 2005-05-13 19:39:49

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Your opinions on AUR

kcy29581 wrote:

Ok... phrak, I have a question then. If AUR isn't as secure as the stable and extra repos, am I to assume that it WON'T be the way forward for Arch? Because if Arch's STABLE number of packages is to grow, this cannot grow on a back of an unstable ladder. If AUR's PKGBUILDs can indeed carry a command that could wipe out a partition, then surely the way forward would be to add more packages to Arch's official repos?
The above concern is why I never trusted TUR's too much, but I thought that AUR would have some "official" backing.
Sorry if I got anything wrong...

well here's the progression:
* PKGBUILD goes into AUR
* people like it and vote for it
* it hits a certain number of votes (25?) and is packaged in the community repo
* after a time and given enough demand + continued voting, it will move to unstable, then extra (?)

what the AUR is doing is exactly what you suggested: increasing stable packages through forced usage and testing - it's not just increasing the sheer volume of packages by taking every PKGBUIL under the sun and popping it in extra

now technically the move to extra isn't that big of a deal, as the community repo is an official repo now - but the main point is that it allows the community to provide packages which have been proven to be stable...

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#17 2005-05-13 20:52:57

Meshuggin
Member
From: /home/meshuggin
Registered: 2005-03-23
Posts: 137

Re: Your opinions on AUR

It's great ... like other people said, it would be nice can get the binary packages too, but for now it's ok wink


Arch GNU/Linux 0.7.1 (Noodle)
Linux 2.6.14-archck1

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#18 2005-05-13 22:06:58

leeghoofd
Member
From: the Netherlands
Registered: 2005-04-28
Posts: 61

Re: Your opinions on AUR

I have a few questions about the AUR bevore I cast my vote wink

Will the PKGBUILDS that are currently in extra and current also be added to the AUR?
If I add a comment to the AUR will the maintainer of that package get a mail or some other notification?
Do I understand correcly that only the original poster of a PKGBUILD can edit it or add new versions?
Why isn't it like a wiki so that everybody can edit and improve the PKGBUILDS? Of course if a PKGBUILD is added to community the TU who did that should first check the improved PKGBUILD bevore submitting the new one to community. And also like in a wiki a TU or the original poster of the PKGBUILD should have the possability of undo-ing this.
How does different versions work, is it possible to have multiple version of one package in the AUR at the same time?

Cheers,
David

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#19 2005-05-13 22:15:31

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Your opinions on AUR

leeghoofd wrote:

Will the PKGBUILDS that are currently in extra and current also be added to the AUR?

no, those are in ABS

leeghoofd wrote:

If I add a comment to the AUR will the maintainer of that package get a mail or some other notification?

No, at least not right now - but it's a good idea... you can add feature requests in the bug tracker (bugs.archlinux.org) - make sure to switch the "project" from Arch to AUR

leeghoofd wrote:

Do I understand correcly that only the original poster of a PKGBUILD can edit it or add new versions?

Well, the maintainer of it can.  However, if I made a vim package you weren't happy with, you can always add "vim-leeghoofd" or something.

leeghoofd wrote:

Why isn't it like a wiki so that everybody can edit and improve the PKGBUILDS?

Because that has so many security holes I can't even count...

leeghoofd wrote:

How does different versions work, is it possible to have multiple version of one package in the AUR at the same time?

Not unless the names are different (ala php and php4).  It works just like the rest of ArchLinux... only one version at a time.

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#20 2005-05-13 22:24:52

kcy29581
Member
From: CA
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 231

Re: Your opinions on AUR

Thanks phrak, but I fail to see at what stage a PKGBUILD is deemed stable? Is it stable after people test in in community, and then when it is deemed stable (by whom, and how?) it is moved to extra?
Sorry, it's just that I can see the step from getting the required number of votes, but not the stable part


There is no spoon in Arch...

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#21 2005-05-13 22:30:33

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Your opinions on AUR

kcy29581 wrote:

Sorry, it's just that I can see the step from getting the required number of votes, but not the stable part

ummm... are you going to vote for a package that doesn't work? I know I won't

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#22 2005-05-13 23:12:31

kcy29581
Member
From: CA
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 231

Re: Your opinions on AUR

Good point phrak! We're taking the voting differently. I took voting as if you WANTED the package to get into community, not whether it works or not. (I thought you could only use the PKGBUILD unless it was in community? how can you test it if its in unsupported or anything else?)


There is no spoon in Arch...

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#23 2005-05-13 23:16:44

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Your opinions on AUR

kcy29581 wrote:

Good point phrak! We're taking the voting differently. I took voting as if you WANTED the package to get into community, not whether it works or not. (I thought you could only use the PKGBUILD unless it was in community? how can you test it if its in unsupported or anything else?)

Well, when you click on the package there's a link that says "tarball" - download that... it's a tar'd up directory containing everything you need to run makepkg on it.

The reason this isn't linked with abs is for security reasons....

So you have to manually download the tarball and run makepkg after untarring (this adds another part of testing... testing the build... please everyone, check the PKGBUILD and .install files before running - you never know who posted a malicious PKGBUILD in the AUR)

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#24 2005-05-13 23:27:41

kcy29581
Member
From: CA
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 231

Re: Your opinions on AUR

Thanks for clarifying that phrak. Thats a good way of testing then! I never noticed the link to the PKGBUILD you mentioned, purely because I'm on links/lynx most of the time here...
Thanks again, sorry if I bored ya!


There is no spoon in Arch...

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#25 2005-05-14 00:00:24

bosewicht
Member
From: Honolulu, HI
Registered: 2004-05-29
Posts: 67

Re: Your opinions on AUR

I am undecided too, it might be a little early in the game to make a decision. I guess we'll have to see how well it works.


<b>There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.</b>

<b>I'm Steve and I'm a Super Villian</b>
http://www.rofl.name/flash/switchlinux4

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