Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

dp · 2005-04-26 23:54:18

http://www.reallylinux.com/docs/linuxclassroom.shtml

T-Dawg · 2005-04-27 01:26:51

The lab is also uncommonly quiet. No hard disks making their whirring noise.

The first time I used linux I noticed this. So nice not having to hear my loud-ass maxtor drive going all the time

I really wish my college would adopt this philosophy of open source software. The building I attend my classes for is designated for CET's and EET's (computer engineer tech / electronic engineer tech.) Just recently they had to load and learn fedora and suse on a couple of machines in the back for a GRID project. Other than this, linux is not available for student use in a building that teaches computer engineering...other than servers class. I find it extremely aggravating and wastefull when I have to sit down to a windows machine and can't do a whole hell of a lot because it has limited and useless software and/or there's something screwed up with it like a virus or OS problem. Furthermore, I find it rediculous that the Linux OS is only touched upon in my classes, but maybe thats just this school.

Maybe someday opensource software in schools will become popular enough to at least split the numbers with windows. Like that article pointed out, it would be nice to spend the saved money on good teachers...

aCoder · 2005-04-27 03:00:26

Now take the total number of computers and multiply by the cost of each piece of software you need installed such as Microsoft Windows (~$79 US), Microsoft Office Student edition (~$120 US), Adobe Photoshop Light (~$49 US), and MacAfee antivirus and internet security software (~$49 US). In the lowest possible scenario these will add up to around $3,500 US.

Ugh. It makes me physically ill thinking about this in my school, boasting around 600 PCs, all *gag* Dells (not the mediocre ones either, I'm talking about the ones you could reproduce after an afternoon of dumpster diving!). Our Win2k licenses cost $90/CPU, and we got Office at a steal with volume/education pricing @ $100 each plus some AV program called Vexira and a 'we hate students so we're going to lock them out of every part of the system except IE and Word' app called Fortres, which supposedly cost a total of $100 a piece. The only other thing on every system is a bunch of Novell middleware which I'm going to guess was around $80 for each PC. For 600 PCs, @ $370/box, that brings us to $222000 for Medina brand new high school. On top of this, our Industrial Arts department owns 30 licenses each of Photoshop (~$130/seat since we were upgrading from older licenses), Rhinoceros ($800/seat), Dreamweaver ($100/seat), and AutoCAD 2004 LT (~100/seat), which brings the total up $33900 to $255900. Wow.

That said, I'm pretty tired and may be off anywhere from $1 to $10000, so if you know better, feel free to speak up.

arooaroo · 2005-04-27 08:44:21

Is this not a Linux Discussion thread, rather than off-topic?

phrakture · 2005-04-27 14:40:44

I think it's OT because it's about Longhorn... but also, dp prolly was looking for an "off topic" discussion.

About the quote that aCoder quoted:
I think alot of people miss the boat when it comes to Free Software - most of it works on windows...
Need Photoshop? Use gimp
MS Office? Try OpenOffice
Dreamweaver? Use ummm the one based on Mozilla (can't recall name)

Hell, on my windows install, I never upgrade WMP, I just use mplayer.... and gaim... and firefox...

dp · 2005-04-27 15:21:52

phrakture wrote:

I think it's OT because it's about Longhorn... but also, dp prolly was looking for an "off topic" discussion.

the core discussion is for sure not OT, but as i (correctly) predicted that it can widen out to other toppics that are off(topic), i posted it here. ;-)

phrakture · 2005-04-27 15:27:29

whoops, I didn't mean longhorn - that was another thread and i got confused
:oops: :oops: :oops:

tmadhavan · 2005-04-27 17:46:36

phrakture wrote:

whoops, I didn't mean longhorn - that was another thread and i got confused
:oops: :oops: :oops:

Woah, trippy, I thought I was reading the Longhorn thread too, wtf?

Bloody tabbed browsing... IE got it right all along...

Kern · 2005-04-27 20:44:04

its a shame "logical" doesnt cut it with local government in the UK.

Company i work with advocates Linux (ltsp for schools etc), cant overcome the inertia of M$ Win and its massive advertising. Schools cant break out of the box even if they want to. Mainly due to politics and funding issues at higher level.

WG the 3rd has been made honorary Knight over here. Its official, the sun actually shines from his rear.

Any Public sector types, anyplace in Europe, suggest swapping from M$ to Linux, Steve Ballmers crew actually fly out to persuade them back, using whatever "incentives" are necessary. A jet is ready and waiting.

i3839 · 2005-04-28 12:31:51

phrakture wrote:

Dreamweaver? Use ummm the one based on Mozilla (can't recall name)

NVU.

tmadhavan · 2005-04-28 20:25:59

Personally I can't believe libraries use Windows... isn't that tax payers' money being spent on something that could be free?

Kern · 2005-04-28 22:32:56

Personally I can't believe libraries use Windows ...

Linux is still perceived as needing "an extra member of staff" by some councils.

thats an expense that some cant afford. Even those that can, or have a linux advocate in their midst, meet political inertia. "but the world uses Windows .... blah blah blah bollocks"

eventually , as with everything, money, or lack of it, will talk.

And so, as in some parts of Europe, the tide will turn. ppl will reject renting Microsoft OS.

tmadhavan · 2005-04-29 07:20:25

Well how about this:

I work my holidays at the library, because they need extra staff to help them with the computers! WTF!

So

a) the librarians aren't computer literate, and Windows blatantly isn't so simple that anyone can just pick it up and use it.

b) I waste most of my days reboting machines because what happens, is people come in, surf the net, minimize IE, then oops!, there's no taskbar, so they open anothe rfew hundred IE windows. Machine dies, rebooterisation is required.

c) this could all be avoided for free if they just stuck some bloody linux machines in! Just have some buttons for email, web and word processing, then lock the rest of it down. I went in an internet cafe in Spain that ran some sort of Linux/Windowmaker combo. When you paid for your net, you were given an account, and when you logged in, the timer on that account started to go down, til you ran out. It does work!

Also, the so-called 'IT technicians' are useless as well. Now, don't get me confused with an elitist who thinks people who aren't l33t as f*ck suck. But these two guys just waltz around the libraries all day, rebooting here, reinstalling there, and that's all they do!

Comp crashes -> librarian phones IT -> IT arrives -> do what I mentioned an hour ago -> fixed (temporarily).

On several occassions I've written to the council about this, and, tho their website says 'we guarantee a reply', they have failed to do so.

It's unbelievably frustrating to know that my money is paying for what is essentially a poorly maintained network. I believe they're overhauling the actual books system soon ... imagine if they move that off Unix too :S

Kern · 2005-04-29 10:05:42

this could all be avoided for free if they just stuck some bloody linux machines in! Just have some buttons for email, web and word processing, then lock the rest of it down

yes all very true what you write. and so frustrating.

currently the company i work with advocate Linux ltsp on exactly those grounds.

even in the face of all that you just wrote, and we quote at people who hold the purse strings, they still go for windows. We even offer a completely lockable workstation solution, with popup screen the lot. the initial investment is too much for them, whether its personell, financial or intellectual.

Some say yes to the stations, but only to house Winboxes !

Recently tho, one customer says "that" is exactly what they is looking for. LTSP / Linux , opensource etc , and very interested in the secure desks.
The tide is turning, slowly, but for sure.

Just needs linux aware / openminded ppl holding the purse strings, who arent blagged by all the Windows v Linux FUD.

tmadhavan · 2005-04-29 12:49:35

Yeh, I'm just about finishing my 1st year (after a gap) at uni, doing CS. My mother works for the library, administratively, so I'm wondering if after my 2nd year I could do some sort of analysis project on this sort of thing.

Everyone agrees in principle... just too scared to change things. Admittedly staff would have to be retrained, but so what?! They're going to be learning something new!

Might even go back to my school and see if they want any changes round there - not that I'd be capable of implementing it all, but perhaps just to get the ball rolling.

Or maybe, no one really gives a toss - which is dangerous. Take, again, the library. All the public machines are Windows, and the staff machines run (I think) win2000, with a (telnet?!) connection to a Unix server somewhere in the council offices. Anyone on the public machines has direct access to the staff network too, if they manage to get an administrative account. The amount of information held in libraries, easily accessible, about people, is ridiculous. Anyone could pop in and sneakily get someone else's name, DOB, address, phone number and library card in abotu 5 minutes.

Worse, I think, is the fact that no one would ever, ever notice if a keylogger was installed. Now, a lot of people use the library machines (no Firefox in sight, of course) to do banking, shopping, personal websurfing - especially those who don't have computers at home. I reckon I could easily stick a hardware keylogger on one of the machines, and it would probably never be noticed - certainly not by library staff, perhaps by IT (of whom there are about 2 for South Wales). Then it's just a matter of picking it up and going home to do some spending....

It's so bloody annoying! Why won't they listen?!???

Bzillins8906 · 2005-05-14 12:17:47

Wow i think i'm off to go get a new hardware keylogger.... JK JK although that new athlon 64 does look awefully nice........

tmadhavan · 2005-05-15 12:59:26

It's funny here, but I'd be pretty gutted if I was a granny who was trying to learn to use the 'internet' for shopping, then finds her pension emptied.

The sad fact is that the people who need to use library computers are often those who can't afford their own...

Arch Linux

#1 2005-04-26 23:54:18

Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#2 2005-04-27 01:26:51

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#3 2005-04-27 03:00:26

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#4 2005-04-27 08:44:21

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#5 2005-04-27 14:40:44

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#6 2005-04-27 15:21:52

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#7 2005-04-27 15:27:29

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#8 2005-04-27 17:46:36

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#9 2005-04-27 20:44:04

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#10 2005-04-28 12:31:51

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#11 2005-04-28 20:25:59

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#12 2005-04-28 22:32:56

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#13 2005-04-29 07:20:25

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#14 2005-04-29 10:05:42

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#15 2005-04-29 12:49:35

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#16 2005-05-14 12:17:47

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

#17 2005-05-15 12:59:26

Re: Why Linux is the Logical Choice for the Classroom

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