Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

Greg_S. · 2010-12-16 22:54:07

Hello forum,
First, apologies if I have posted this topic in the wrong thread. I am writing to inquire as to whether or not there are any other Arch users and/or developers that would be interested in assisting Jeff Hoogland with his new distro, Bodhi Linux, and working on an Arch-based build. Bodhi Linux is a Ubuntu-based distribution that uses Enlightenment as the desktop environment and is focused on promoting the light weight, beauty, and speed of Enlightenment while remaining minimalist. Jeff has plans to release a Fedora-based version of Bodhi in the future, as well as an Arch-based build, but he would need some help, specifically with the OS disc itself. He can work on the Enlightenment side of things. Is there anyone interested in working on such a project? If you haven't heard of Bodhi Linux already, please visit http://bodhilinux.com/

Allan · 2010-12-17 00:39:09

Seems weird to provide a distro with three different bases...

Greg_S. · 2010-12-17 02:19:37

Allan,
To some, yes, it may some "weird." To others, it just provides them with more options. Some people prefer Ubuntu and Synaptic, others Fedora and Yum, others Arch and Pacman. The whole point of his distro is to promote Enlightenment, regardless of the base used.

Japanlinux · 2011-01-15 06:17:36

I think the goal of Bohdi isn't to create a perfect distro, but to make enlightenment accessible for different distros. By accessible I also mean prettier, because I looked at their latest beta version and it looks and makes e17 feel good compared to the default which I couldn't take a liking to. Anyway, I think he wants to bring some e17 love to other distros which don't have much. ubuntu for example seems to have given up on any e17 love for some time now until this distro showed up. If greg is still looking for help, I'll put myself out there if I it's within my ability. Just pm me if you'd like to discuss it more greg.

Disclaimer: if what you need is the creation of a livecd type thing, I am not that well versed in archlinux. However, talking to the guys at archbang may be helpful, since they have livecd of their openbox-based arch distro

Last edited by Japanlinux (2011-01-15 08:10:37)

tomk · 2011-01-15 08:53:06

I'm sure you and Greg will disagree, but IMO Bodhi should not release an Arch-based version. Instead, they should create an Arch package repository specialising in Enlightenment, for interested Arch users to use. This would be more in keeping with both Arch's and Bodhi's objectives.

hellnest · 2011-01-15 09:06:30

@tomk
i agree with you ,

@Greg
create AUR package for it. Let's other user test it and maybe can also contribute with your setup. I like your website and concept, maybe if you can optimize E17 package in Archlinux, more people will want to try it also can raise your distro popularity. But isn't harm also if you still want to build an Arch based distro using E17.

jelly · 2011-01-15 13:27:21

tomk wrote:

I'm sure you and Greg will disagree, but IMO Bodhi should not release an Arch-based version. Instead, they should create an Arch package repository specialising in Enlightenment, for interested Arch users to use. This would be more in keeping with both Arch's and Bodhi's objectives.

This is the philosophy!! If we have a nice enlightenment repo for arch some devs/TU's may get interestered in moving those to [community] or [extra] . This has far more benefits for archlinux then creating another silly fork which dies in the end...

Misfit138 · 2011-01-15 17:31:46

jelly wrote:

tomk wrote:
I'm sure you and Greg will disagree, but IMO Bodhi should not release an Arch-based version. Instead, they should create an Arch package repository specialising in Enlightenment, for interested Arch users to use. This would be more in keeping with both Arch's and Bodhi's objectives.
This is the philosophy!! If we have a nice enlightenment repo for arch some devs/TU's may get interestered in moving those to [community] or [extra] . This has far more benefits for archlinux then creating another silly fork which dies in the end...

Win.

Make E17 more accessible, not more convoluted.

wonder · 2011-01-15 17:35:12

maybe they should work with our e17 maintainer. nobody wants duplicating work (like we had with kdemod)

ANOKNUSA · 2011-01-15 17:50:40

I'm with tomk. Going out of your way to create several versions of a distro, based on several existing distros with existing user bases with their existing knowledge of E17 is wasted energy. As I stated very frankly on OMG Ubuntu--where I first found out about this project--you would do better to contribute to the existing community, rather that create a throw-away distro based on that community. When you speak of choice and then list off existing tools, as you did above, you're actually pointing out the conceptual flaws in the Bhodi Linux project. To get right to the point: If I want an Ubuntu-, Arch- or Fedora-based system that runs E17, I'll install said distros. I can install E17 right now if I so choose. What are you folks offering that others don't?

Japanlinux · 2011-01-15 17:56:01

actually. If he got back to me, the first thing I was gonna suggest we create is a small repository such as those shown in the wiki:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Un … positories

Glad everyone else is on the same page with me

My expectation was they were were going to make a 'distro' like archbang that came with a livecd so you could test this out. On Bohdi they update enlightenment from source once a week, so creating an enlightenment repo would also allow them to update things much easier anyway. So for those who wanted to try arch, the livecd was available and those who want an even MORE minimal arch could simply access the repo. I suppose if they just want to make enlightenment accessible to arch people though, they could try what Afterglow linux did with pekwm. allow the person to install archlinux, then download a script and it will install everything for an [pekwm in that case] enlightenment desktop, including the themes they have created and such.

Japanlinux · 2011-01-15 17:58:24

ANOKNUSA wrote:

. I can install E17 right now if I so choose. What are you folks offering that others don't?

On arch, it's not as apparent, but on Ubuntu it is abundantly apparent that their WEEKLY updates of e17 compared to a single static version in ubuntu is enough to make users of most alpha software happy. I'm betting the distro was started on the basis of creating a controlled environment so their updates don't corrupt something else.

Last edited by Japanlinux (2011-01-15 17:59:49)

chris-kun · 2011-01-16 02:04:37

I'll be setting up the arch-spin for bodhi. At the moment it is basically nothing more than vanilla arch + E17 all setup and looking nice, so people who download the the 'arch' version of bodhi will basically just be downloading a custom livecd of arch, like archbang and afterglow. I'm not sure what they have planned for the future, though, and after I get things setup I'm sure releasing an E17 repo for arch will also be no problem.

Greg_S. · 2011-01-16 04:29:22

@Misfit138 and @ANOKNUSA: You are both entitled to your opinions. ANOKNUSA, you think it's wasted energy? "Throw-away distro" is it? Not the way it's progressing, if you would but take a look at how many people have taken interest in the project since it's beginning. Considering it isn't even ranked on Distrowatch yet, I'd say it's quite an accomplishment. I don't think it will be one of the many Linux projects that dies. In regards to what Bodhi offers, how about weekly E17 updates?

@Japanlinux: You are right. The project aims to showcase E17 and give it the "love" it deserves. If you'd like to help with E17 for the Arch build of Bodhi, I recommend getting in contact with Chris-Kun, as he is now the head of that build.

By the way, I am not the lead developer of Bodhi. Jeff Hoogland is. I am but a humble user that just wants to help the Bodhi community in any way possible.

ngoonee · 2011-01-16 06:59:18

Greg_S. wrote:

I don't think it will be one of the many Linux projects that dies. In regards to what Bodhi offers, how about weekly E17 updates?

Basically the main thrust of the nay-sayers (if that's how you'd like to look at them) goes like this.

What will this project offer that wouldn't be more easily/usefully accomplished by creating an unofficial [e17] repo? I'd think you'd have to do that anyway if Arch-Bodhi is going to be regularly updated against the main Arch repos.

Allan · 2011-01-16 07:51:16

Isn't e17 already in [community]? So a separate repo might not even be necessary (unless you are going to do a lot of non-vanilla sutff). In my opinion, you would be better to help the maintainer in [community] improve their packages and work on improving the wiki for installing and setting up the desktop.

But then again, you are free to spend your time how you want!

jelly · 2011-01-16 10:24:24

Allan wrote:

Isn't e17 already in [community]? So a separate repo might not even be necessary (unless you are going to do a lot of non-vanilla sutff). In my opinion, you would be better to help the maintainer in [community] improve their packages and work on improving the wiki for installing and setting up the desktop.
But then again, you are free to spend your time how you want!

Allan++. Exactly my point.

In reality a pacman-repo with a weekly enlightment would be easier then setting up your whole distro, because what is really needed are just a couple of packages? ( Just an argument so that you won't have to invent the wheel again )

ANOKNUSA · 2011-01-16 18:33:27

Greg_S. wrote:

ANOKNUSA, you think it's wasted energy? "Throw-away distro" is it?

Sorry if this seems unduly harsh. I wasn't trying to troll, but merely reiterating what others here have said. The Bodhi Linux developers are certainly within their right to direct their efforts in any way they wish. However, they have two serious conceptual flaws they need to consider and overcome:

1) Are the devs planning on releasing both x86 and AMD64 versions of Bodhi? Even if not, this still means that once the project gets going, they'll need to build the entire E17 compilation three times a week; if so, they'll need to do so six times a week. This is very tedious and time-consuming for a group of people working in their spare time, with no financial backing or chance for compensation. Naturally, it leaves very little time to maintain the rest of the repos, discuss/research/pursue further development, track bug reports, etc. The latter is worth noting, since

2) The devs will need to keep track of bugs and development roadmaps for three different distros, each with their own kernel patches, boot/init protocols, etc. They'll need to build separate packages and "tune" separate repos for each spin, provide a forum(s) able to handle questions regarding each spin, with devs and moderators specializing in each spin.

This is an awful lot of work to simply "showcase E17 and give it the 'love' it deserves." The Enlightenment devs are the ones providing the weekly snapshots on SVN; the Bodhi devs just package them. If promotion of Enlightenment DR17 is the ultimate goal, it could be better accomplished by establishing and promoting a PPA for Ubuntu, a PKGBUILD or PUR for Arch, and a (name of unofficial repo here) for Fedora. This would make an up-to-date version of E17 readily available, and require only promotion and packaging on the part of the maintainers. Bug reports could be sent directly to the Enlightenment folks with no need for an intermediary, as well as to the appropriate distro, rather than sending them to Bodhi which must then check to see if the problem is one extant in the base distro concerned before applying efforts to fix the problem. Just think: you get a bug report and begin to reseach it, only to find out it's a problem you inherited from Ubuntu which in turn inherited it From Debian [unstable]. Where does that leave you? If you do manage to fix the problem, then the only decent thing to do would be to share whatever patch/code changes you made with the folks upstream anyway.

I ain't trying to be a killjoy here, and I'm definitely not trying to discourage the commitment and spirit of contribution the Bodhi folks obviously have; just the opposite. Besides, it does look like you found at least one Archer willing to help you guys, so whatever ends up happening, I wish you all good luck with it.

Greg_S. · 2011-01-16 20:13:37

@ANOKNUSA: Yes, it did seem like trolling at first, but thank you for clarifying and for sharing your concerns and insights. Well, I can definitely understand where you are coming from and you do make several good points. As for Jeff planning to release both 64-bit and 32-bit versions of each Bodhi build, he indeed plans to EVENTUALLY have both versions available. As of this moment, however, his primary concern is the 32-bit version. I can definitely see how this would prove challenging and create a lot of work for Jeff and Chris-kun, but who knows? Perhaps more devs will jump on board the project and lend a hand? And sure, they don't receive any monetary compensation for their efforts, but whatever happened to selfless acts? Giving or sharing something with others without expecting anything in return is highly respectable. I know if I was a dev (perhaps much later), I could care less about donations (of course, that's just me).

As for bugs and developments, that too can be a heavy workload, but again, perhaps in time more people will assist the Bodhi team. All distros have to start somewhere, right?
And to everyone that thinks it better to help with an E17 repo for Arch, well, I think Chris-kun plans to do just that once he's done with the Bodhi Arch-build. Again, I'm simply a humble Bodhi user.

jmdennis · 2011-02-11 06:25:11

I agree that it would be better to help those that already have packages for this. I also agree that time should be spent on the wiki as well for this. I would love to see some thing like an Afterglow Edition and have some themes so that people will not only get the desktop but also get some themes they can use as well.

I for one know how an update to the underlying system can break the desktop being used. I was using Dreamlinux at the time and did an update to the system. At the time it broke all the changes they made to the desktop and I was left with just a normal Gnome desktop. Because of this I see no need for another project but just make sure the one that they have is better cared for and those working on this already have help.

nankura · 2011-09-17 09:23:44

not to revive a topic but is this project still in the idea area or was there any progress?

Arch Linux

#1 2010-12-16 22:54:07

Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#2 2010-12-17 00:39:09

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#3 2010-12-17 02:19:37

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#4 2011-01-15 06:17:36

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#5 2011-01-15 08:53:06

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#6 2011-01-15 09:06:30

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#7 2011-01-15 13:27:21

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#8 2011-01-15 17:31:46

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#9 2011-01-15 17:35:12

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#10 2011-01-15 17:50:40

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#11 2011-01-15 17:56:01

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#12 2011-01-15 17:58:24

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#13 2011-01-16 02:04:37

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#14 2011-01-16 04:29:22

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#15 2011-01-16 06:59:18

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#16 2011-01-16 07:51:16

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#17 2011-01-16 10:24:24

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#18 2011-01-16 18:33:27

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#19 2011-01-16 20:13:37

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#20 2011-02-11 06:25:11

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

#21 2011-09-17 09:23:44

Re: Bodhi Linux Arch-based build, need dev(s) and supporting team members

Board footer