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#26 2011-03-07 15:47:00

smartass
Member
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Registered: 2011-02-25
Posts: 60

Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

rwd wrote:

the pattern recognition logic that is now used for surveillance and serving ads

Good point, I sometimes misinterpret Google ads for actual links on pages, because they integrate so well and can be very relevant. But as with most of these services, you need first a great amount of data to find the patterns.
Btw, is that picture from your personal experience ? big_smile

tlvb wrote:

detecting those 'pro' usage patterns would still be difficult, on par or worse than natural language,
these action having no predefined grammar that the ai could build on...

I totally agree, I can imagine finding a pattern for multimedia users or chatting freaks, but once you have a more complicated task, it can be accomplished by using and combining many different programs and approaches, so I think a "power user" pattern would be much more difficult to find.
So if I was to use the language analogy, the number of possible dialects would be a problem, because I believe that grammar as a set of rules (and therefore a quite logical system) can be generalized (like moving files, reading them, displaying a window), I even heard that this is possible with real languages.

@davidm: your description of system message based control sounds a lot like dbus. I think it's just that dbus or something similar isn't always fully implemented but it is already being used in ways similar to those you described. So you may have to just wait a little longer wink

davidm wrote:

where a user could go back and tell the control module that it is "incorrect"

No offense, but that sounds a lot like the Windows autoplay feature for removable media, not a path I'd like Linux/GNU to take wink such features work only if you have certain habits for using removable media, but unleashes hell otherwise.

davidm wrote:

add some central  intelligence to the computer besides that which exists between our ears.

I just still believe that a computer is a deterministic machine and what you want is AI.


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#27 2011-03-08 16:22:21

davidm
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Registered: 2009-04-25
Posts: 338

Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

No offense, but that sounds a lot like the Windows autoplay feature for removable media, not a path I'd like Linux/GNU to take wink such features work only if you have certain habits for using removable media, but unleashes hell otherwise.

There is useful and there is annoying. It all depends on how things are implemented. It's been a while since I have used windows but I believe one of the reasons why autoplay is annoying is that it doesn't learn when it is appropriate and when it is not. It simply autoplays all media when inserted every time. That's not what I want.  With what I speak of it would seek to learn when it is appropriate to autoplay and when it is not based on past patterns.

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#28 2011-03-11 15:21:26

SanskritFritz
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From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2009-01-08
Posts: 1,616
Website

Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

Here is an iteresting concept: Eaglemode. It still uses the window paradigm though, but extends the Z axis extremely. I couldnt get used to it, as I am mainly a keyboard user. If there were extensive keyboard support with tags maybe to navigate quickly, I'd probably use it. Still, I have it on my archlinux installed and regularly return to it, as it is really fun. Sometimes searching is easier with it, for visual people, who tend to remember something as 'yeah, it was up left in the middle just next to that particual picture'.


zʇıɹɟʇıɹʞsuɐs AUR || Cycling in Budapest with a helmet camera || Revised log levels proposal: "FYI" "WTF" and "OMG" (John Barnette)

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#29 2011-03-11 18:40:11

smartass
Member
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Registered: 2011-02-25
Posts: 60

Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

WOW, now that's what I was looking for!

Really interesting, the great thing is that it's not actually 3D, it's more like 2D with sub-spaces, which makes much more sense for a flat screen smile The center of it all is a file manager, which makes real sense! And it takes the window paradigm beyond the usual usage and makes real use of a flat screen. Simply innovative....

Thanks so much SanskritFritz, you resurrected my faith in open source innovation smile


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#30 2011-03-11 18:49:35

SanskritFritz
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From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2009-01-08
Posts: 1,616
Website

Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

You're welcome smile I also hope that this concept will conceive new ideas that are actually usable. I see great potential in Eaglemode.


zʇıɹɟʇıɹʞsuɐs AUR || Cycling in Budapest with a helmet camera || Revised log levels proposal: "FYI" "WTF" and "OMG" (John Barnette)

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#31 2011-03-11 19:22:00

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
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Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

For my graduate studies research, I worked with the authors of Metisse: http://insitu.lri.fr/metisse/ I don't think it's maintained now that the research is done, and a lot of what was extremely interesting in it has become redundant with the development of compositing in X. But if you're just looking for innovative ideas, I suggest reading about it.

I also wrote a 3D interface with a 3D e-mail client for my undergraduate research project. It was called Ensmer and was available on dev.java.net until Oracle took that down last month. Oracle + open source = dead projects.

There has been a lot of HCI research proving that 3D interfaces are far inferior to 2D ones, and having six degrees of freedom is actually a constraint. While minority report style interfaces have yet to be developed (a large screen ipad or android tablet would be coming close), most researchers agree that the fatigue of holding your arms out in front of you would make such interfaces not terribly useful.

Eaglemode appears to be similar to a concept developed by Jeff Raskin (inventor of the original macos, among other things) in the late 80s, as innovative as it appears, it's actually been around for a while, too.

Dusty

Last edited by Dusty (2011-03-11 19:23:43)

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#32 2011-03-11 19:45:56

smartass
Member
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Registered: 2011-02-25
Posts: 60

Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

Seems I should look deeper into ZUIs wink "3D" in 2D is a great idea big_smile

@Dusty: I'm sorry for your loss (death is a terrible thing even in the world of computers).
Even though you may be right that Metisse was sort of superseded by Compiz and others,  the UIMarks framework looks very promising, looks like something that rwd was thinking of.

And thanks a lot for some insight into HCI research. Made me happy with my flat screen big_smile

Thanks a lot guys smile

Last edited by smartass (2011-03-11 19:55:10)


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#33 2011-03-11 21:06:43

Cilyan
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From: Toulouse (FR)
Registered: 2006-08-27
Posts: 93
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Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

I am also in search of a new kind of desktop or at least window manager. I think the "desktop-ng" is still to be invented, but I stopped on a few interesting projects. I tested Sugar and I must say, if it is really not adapted for my needs, the interface was really interesting. Almost all applications can be run single or shared with friends, and the ability to recall the last state of the program is nice. I had also a look to Ordissimo in my quest to find a simple interface for my grand parents, and it now does for them quite a good job. I'm sure it's not what you're looking for, but it could be inspiring. I tested Android shortly, not very convinced. Finally the one that inspired me the most is MeeGo. The interface is based on tabs for the most common uses of a netbook, reverting to windows for less used programs. The new interface of MeeGo 1.2 looks also promising: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLTLcxWnklI

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#34 2011-03-16 02:44:13

UnDisbeliever
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From: Australia
Registered: 2009-08-07
Posts: 3

Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

My favorite in the new styles of window managers is a a design called Con10uum. It is an attempt to combine the ease of a tiled window manager (each window has the same height, stacked next to each other) with a multitouch interface.

The design first featured 2009 in a web video called 10/GUI (http://10gui.com/video/) which used the idea of having a large multitouch touchpad below the keyboard instead of using a multitouch display, preventing arm and neck strain. He also came up with a mutlttouch linear desktop design that stops window overlap, yet still manages  allow users to easily flick between windows with ease. The design does this by forcing all of the windows to have the same height, and are stacked next to each other. You then use standard multitouch gestures (but with an extra finger) to resize, move and arrange the windows (which uses two extra fingers).

There has been an attempt to code this design called WPF Con10uum. It works, but appears to have stalled in its development. My main problem with it (and the reason I'm not using it) is that It requires a multitouch display running on Windows 7 with .NET4.

AN: Yeah, I know I'm a bit late. Been without internet for a while and decided to join some online communities.

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#35 2011-03-18 23:00:30

msl
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Registered: 2010-12-13
Posts: 22

Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

Personalbrain may interest you somewhat if you haven't seen it.

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#36 2011-03-24 22:09:39

mythus
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From: MS Gulf Coast
Registered: 2008-05-15
Posts: 509
Website

Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

There is Twindy in the AUR. I'd say it was the most unique GUI I've ever used, though I don't think it is being maintained anymore.


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#37 2011-03-26 15:40:25

smartass
Member
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Registered: 2011-02-25
Posts: 60

Re: In search of a truly innovative Desktop

Well, Twindy is very nice, sort of a mouse-oriented tilling window manager. Certainly shows that tilling WMs can be used even by people used to controlling everything by mouse. I think it would be a good choice for people translating or comparing two texts or programmers (or people developing something in general), but I wouldn't say it could be a multipurpose WM, because of the lack of keyboard and fullscreen support. Feels a lot like certain IDEs, guess that's because it's based on one,as the author states.
But thanks a lot for this one, I will use it next time I'm translating something wink

BTW, that top workspace-tab-bar kinda reminds me of Chrome OS wink coincidence?

@msl: I do use mind-maps a lot, so I've heard about Personalbrain, but besides cool animations and a few special view modes it IMHO doesn't seem to provide many different features than freemind/freeplane or VUE, but I'm wondering if a mind-mapping concept could be used as a desktop shell. Freemind/freeplane can work like a file browser, that would be a place to start IMHO.


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