[GNOME 3] First Impressions?

Sloshy · 2011-04-08 18:26:58

NOTE: This thread is for people using GNOME 3 in testing right now. Please do not respond otherwise.

I upgraded to GNOME 3 on Testing with virtually no problems. I've been testing GNOME Shell from git/jhbuild for the past year or so and it feels much smoother now than before, even with my old Nvidia GeForce 6200. After I learned all of the handy keyboard shortcuts, I've been doing fairly fine. It's nicely minimal, yet new and shiny at the same time; the best of both worlds, eh?

Besides the shell, the new Empathy is very nice as well. Sure, it's not as extensible or "feature-filled" as my old favorite Pidgin, but it's integration with GNOME and log viewer are much, much better than Pidgin's. Seriously, check out Empathy's log viewer. It's amazing !

The new Nautilus and Gedit are also very nice. Minimal yet both have the features that I need from a file manager and text editor. The only program with a problem that I ran into was Rhythmbox, as it hasn't had it's "3.0" release yet. The latest build from git works fine, but any third-party plugin that uses pygtk will segfault it, so I had to remove rhythmbox-microblogger for the moment.

My favorite part of GNOME 3, oddly enough, is the help browser. Enter the command "yelp" and browse around. It really is fantastic !

How have your experiences with GNOME 3 in testing been?

litemotiv · 2011-04-08 18:38:08

Nice introduction Sloshy, i'm thinking about giving this a try.

ajschwartz · 2011-04-08 18:48:13

Here are my 2 cents:
1. Nvidia support sucks
2. The new theme is nice, but it wastes too much screen real-estate (e.g. the metacity theme, set time dialog)
3. Little annoying "features":
* The delete keyboard button doesn't work in nautilus (what gives!?). Need to right click > move to trash.
* No screensaver configuration.
* Gnome-fallback does not work for me.
* No icons on desktop (even though it can be turned on via dconf).
* Dconf + Gconf are confusing. Which one do we use and for what?
* Difficult to change themes/icons.
* Not all applications abide the new looks - Chromium, gksu/gksudo, Banshee (I know it's GTK#).
* Feels like the entire thing needs to be polished a bit more.
4. But, It's actually much nicer than what I've thought (from screenshots/screencasts)
5. The new ALT+TAB is great! I never realized how much I needed it to be application-oriented instead of window-oriented.
6. With Nouveau, it's actually quite snappy. I don't even miss Compiz.
7. Love the shadow surrounding the windows, reminds me of the old metacity compositioning.

A.J.

Sloshy · 2011-04-08 19:38:48

ajschwartz wrote:

Here are my 2 cents:
1. Nvidia support sucks
2. The new theme is nice, but it wastes too much screen real-estate (e.g. the metacity theme, set time dialog)
3. Little annoying "features":
* The delete keyboard button doesn't work in nautilus (what gives!?). Need to right click > move to trash.
* No screensaver configuration.
* Gnome-fallback does not work for me.
* No icons on desktop (even though it can be turned on via dconf).
* Dconf + Gconf are confusing. Which one do we use and for what?
* Difficult to change themes/icons.
* Not all applications abide the new looks - Chromium, gksu/gksudo, Banshee (I know it's GTK#).
* Feels like the entire thing needs to be polished a bit more.
4. But, It's actually much nicer than what I've thought (from screenshots/screencasts)
5. The new ALT+TAB is great! I never realized how much I needed it to be application-oriented instead of window-oriented.
6. With Nouveau, it's actually quite snappy. I don't even miss Compiz.
7. Love the shadow surrounding the windows, reminds me of the old metacity compositioning.
A.J.

Very thorough! I'm using Nvidia as well, though I can't exactly blame the Shell team for that. I'd blame Nvidia's mediocre drivers (relative to Windows, that is). I was going to try it with nouveau but I remembered that I play games on here occasionally, so I'll try it once the 2.6.39 kernel is released since it reportedly increases the rendering performance of the open source drivers a lot ("page flipping" or something like that). I don't really mind there being no screensaver configuration as it's not a huge deal for me, but I expect that will be added back in 3.2 or 3.4, as it's a rather superficial concern. If I'm not mistaken, GNOME is migrating from gconf to dconf, and that gconf is only still there because some old applications depend on it (though that might change in a future release). As for changing the themes, it's because there are very few alternative themes for GTK3 at the moment so it's a rather superficial option. It's possible to change the icon and GTK themes with gnome-tweak-tool, though (you can also turn icons on the desktop back on as well). I'm not the biggest fan of icons on the desktop anyways since they make it look cluttered and ugly, but that's just my way of seeing it .

One other nice thing that I just noticed: in any GTK3 application, you can drag a window using the window border (of course) as well as the menu bar and any empty space on the toolbars!

Oh, and by the way, the Nautilus shortcut changed to Ctrl+Delete so users don't accidentally delete anything. You can see in the Edit menu what the shortcut is

If anybody wants to see, I wrote a blog post a couple days ago that says how to tweak some aspects of GNOME 3, as well as a mini-review.

Last edited by Sloshy (2011-04-08 19:42:13)

flamelab · 2011-04-08 19:42:39

I think the Nvidia driver issue will be resolved in the upcoming betas, they could be waiting for a stable release. They have had Kwin issues before and they have solved it.

ajschwartz · 2011-04-08 19:47:30

Oh! I forgot!
Does anyone if there's a way to re-enable autocomplete on ALT+F2 (run)?

Sloshy · 2011-04-08 19:55:48

ajschwartz wrote:

Oh! I forgot!
Does anyone if there's a way to re-enable autocomplete on ALT+F2 (run)?

Works for me; just hit tab. "fir" -> tab = "firefox" for me. It's not quite as powerful as the GNOME 2 version but that could come in a later release.

ajschwartz · 2011-04-08 19:57:07

HUD looking bash
Thanks!

Mazur · 2011-04-08 23:02:10

There are many threads about Gnome 3 already but all right, I will add few words from me as well. I have been testing Gnome 3 since @wonder started to maintain gnome-unstable because before I wasn't even able to compile it from AUR. Firstly Gtk 3, it's amazing update and now everything makes sense and works much better than it used to be with Gtk 2 - I hope Qt and Gtk 3 will find the way to have one Style (CSS) files and Themes so we do not need to care anymore about shit. Gnome 3 is awesome and huge milestone and I love the simplicity but there are few things that just does not work, one of those examples is Tray and new "Menu" - I understand that they wanted to make it better etc. and it works on my Desktop PC but on my Netbook where I did put Linux only because it was soo fast, now it is soo slow. It's not that slow - it's still very usable but going to Activities or "Calendar" on top of the panel is like 1-2 sec delay which I don't like - also launching applications is huge pain in this Gnome 3 especially on netbook. Another thing is Gtk 3 new Theme which is wasting completely space on my netbook but still looks nice. I have nvidia binary driver and 8600 GT on my Desktop whereas netbook is Samsung Nc10 and I have no issues at all with any of those drivers so I do not understand why people keep complain about nvidia drivers and Gnome 3. I think there are few things that they need to change in Gnome 3.2 to make it usable for everyone, change this Tray thing - make Desktop visible again (I know dconf but it does not work) and let us see Dock on the Desktop without going to activities or at least give back old way of Menu somehow.

Another few things:
* Desktop can be draw but even after change in dconf it does not work, user have to launch nautilus every time first before icons are draw on desktop again.
* Dconf, Gconf, Gconf-editor, Dconf-editor as someone already said it's just pain in the ass, what is for what?!?!
* On my netbook many applications from Gnome 3 which has no option of resizing window like Gnome Settings are just not fitting into screen and I have to scroll -.- ...
* Dconf-Editor is UGLY, UGLY and UGLY.
* Again launching applications from Menu is pain, I know there is alt + f2 and I am using it right now but still, it sucks.
* On my Netbook when using Function Key along with Volume/Brightness - it works but icons are ugly like they were resized by 150% which really sucks and I hope they fix it because they looks awesome.
* PulseAudio is good option and I love all plugins in default panel/shell. Looks so clean and simple.
* Again tray, tray and tray. Jeez who needs Application Name next to the icon?
* In Gnome 3.2 settings needs many more options and icons on desktop at default.

In general Gnome 3.0 is great and I think 3.2 will be soo good that I will install it on my netbook but today I am not planning to use it since September. I will reinstall Arch Linux tomorrow on my netbook and come back to Gnome 2.x and just freeze system and stop updating because I can't live with this right now, especially on so small screen. On my Desktop I will just move to [dwm] right now, I think. I am not that crazy yet to install Kde or Xfce, I would rather prefer to stay with Gnome 3 than KDE but it's just my opinion.

Sloshy · 2011-04-09 00:31:15

Mazur wrote:

Desktop can be draw but even after change in dconf it does not work, user have to launch nautilus every time first before icons are draw on desktop again.

The reason that there are no icons on the desktop is because they're pointless. You shouldn't have to move your windows around or minimize a window just to get to something on your desktop; that's what Nautilus and the favorites list in the Activities overlay are for

Mazur wrote:

Again launching applications from Menu is pain, I know there is alt + f2 and I am using it right now but still, it sucks.

Use the favorites list as I said. It's very easy to use. Just right-click an application to add/remove it from the list.

Mazur wrote:

* Again tray, tray and tray. Jeez who needs Application Name next to the icon?

1) It increases the horizontal target area for the notification, and 2) So you can tell at first glance what application the icon belongs to

jolinfire · 2011-04-09 05:58:39

Been using it for a week (gnome-unstable) and then testing. Very good, even if I miss good old right click on desktop.

The only missing thing : showing removable drive on desktop (cd / dvd / usb hdd / usb key).

And this awful to make work software called gwibber

ajschwartz · 2011-04-09 06:14:29

Sloshy - I disagree.

The favorites panel would indeed have been a *somewhat* suitable replacement for the Desktop if:
1. You could place files and folders on it. I often create arbitrary files and folders on my desktop for daily routines, and delete them after I'm done.
2. Removable media would appear on it. On of the things I hate the most about Windows, is having to open My Computer in order to find my removable media. Right now, Gnome 3 does pretty much that.

A.J.

Last edited by ajschwartz (2011-04-09 06:15:10)

bananaoomarang · 2011-04-09 08:48:52

First, I've been using KDE4 for a long time. So this is from a kde4 perspective, not Gnome2 one.

I HATE the lack of configuration options, there are next to none. I have USED Gnome2 and I'm sure I could configure things such as what turned up in the menu, what cursor I had, what screensaver etc. Yeah, gconf and dconf are nice but hardly user friendly! It's brings back nightmares of the registry and I don't like it when that happens.

One main gripe I've had is that the desktop by default displays nothing, I set it in gnome tweak to display my desktop folder but I have to start nautilus for this to work? The whole shebang of Nautilus 3. Even when I right click on my 'desktop' to begin with, no menu comes up. People are going to want a folder displayed on their desktop, KDE made a stupid decision here and now Gnome are following suit. hmmmm.

Also, in Nautilus I have single click selected in the preferences and yet I still need to double click to open things. Single feels a lot nicer to me, when I check double to see if that does anything, nautilus segfaults. So I think it needs a little work on the stability side of things.

With all that said, I rather like it. Theming feels slick yet minimal (apart from the title bars on windows? They seem pretty huge, hulking and ugly.) The shell seems to work well, getting out of the way when I don't need it. Notifications are actually pleasant unlike KDE which sends me three every time I connect to a wireless router and saves them.

My one final criticism would be that both gdm and the shell itself take an age to start. I hate that about kde4 and I always loved the way both seemed to start very quickly in Gnome2. It's a real shame to lose that snappiness that KDE also lost with 4.

Is it a step forward from Gnome2? Yes, definitely, I prefer it but it still needs a healthy dose of polish.

I'm still undecided about whether I will switch back to KDE4 or not. Both have clear advantages to me...

jaco · 2011-04-09 09:12:50

ajschwartz wrote:

Sloshy - I disagree..

And i'm agree with you as i have the same workflow...

The only solution i've found so far is to open the file-manager during all the session.

I'm waiting the "stable" release to see if i can tweak the desktop to suit my needs, not the Gnome dev's ones...

If not, i'll switch to a environment for workers, not for fanboys kids...

litemotiv · 2011-04-09 09:21:36

jaco wrote:

If not, i'll switch to a environment for workers, not for fanboys kids...

Let's try not to resort to trolling jaco, that won't do the purpose of this thread any good.

Kernald · 2011-04-09 10:30:25

jaco wrote:

The only solution i've found so far is to open the file-manager during all the session.

Using gnome-tweak-tool, you have an option to have the file-manager handling the desktop.

jaco · 2011-04-09 11:05:39

Kernald wrote:

jaco wrote:
The only solution i've found so far is to open the file-manager during all the session.
Using gnome-tweak-tool, you have an option to have the file-manager handling the desktop.

Already tried... but i've never seen any effect.

wonder · 2011-04-09 11:07:00

@jaco after enabling, start nautilus. Somebody should report that bug upstream

jaco · 2011-04-09 11:20:21

wonder wrote:

@jaco after enabling, start nautilus. Somebody should report that bug upstream

I do not understand what you mean... It's enabled, i've already restarted my session, i've already launched Nautilus (the file-manager) and nothing changes...

Last edited by jaco (2011-04-09 11:23:28)

Kernald · 2011-04-09 12:12:30

jaco wrote:

wonder wrote:
@jaco after enabling, start nautilus. Somebody should report that bug upstream

I do not understand what you mean... It's enabled, i've already restarted my session, i've already launched Nautilus (the file-manager) and nothing changes...

Working here : http://mgep.ath.cx/nautilus-background.png

Like wonder said, I had to manualy launch Nautilus after the activation of the setting in gnome-tweak-tool. After a logout, I still have to manualy launch nautilus by hand. Reporting upstream.

caligo · 2011-04-09 13:15:00

I installed Gnome 3 just this morning, and so far I'm fairly impressed. The new GUI does a good job of being useful while at the same time staying out of my way when I don't need it. It also manages to be quite snappy, despite the fact that I'm running it on a netbook with integrated intel graphics.

I can see the UI being useful on both smaller and larger screens (as well as touchscreen devices), and I think I'll get used to the workflow mandated by it fairly quickly. Then again, I usually launch applications by just pressing alt+F2 and typing the name -- I can see the new application "menu" being experienced as somewhat clunky by someone who's used to an ordinary app menu such as that in Gnome 2.

The lack of tweaking options (being somewhat remedied by Gnome Tweak Tool) is a fairly obvious problem. This is surely something that will change in future versions, but having to resort to a third-party tool to change the system font just feels wrong somehow -- especially since the functionality has obviously been implemented, they've just not made it accessible. Another thing that struck me as problematic was how much wasted space there is with those large scroll bars and window decorations (not to mention the new nautilus toolbar). It would have been nice to have the option to switch to something a bit more nimble, as my 10" netbook doesn't provide that much screen real-estate to begin with.

eldragon · 2011-04-09 13:19:05

my first impressions:

*) dual screen support is kind of useless.
im used to having two screens, one on top of the other one. of course, the bottom panel is on the top window and when it hides it appears on the bottom window. this in turn make accessing the system tray almost impossible.

*) rounded does not make a polish.

*) how can i get my icons on the taskbar again? i had cpu temp, cpu usage and network activity there.

Kernald · 2011-04-09 13:39:16

eldragon wrote:

my first impressions:
*) dual screen support is kind of useless.
im used to having two screens, one on top of the other one. of course, the bottom panel is on the top window and when it hides it appears on the bottom window. this in turn make accessing the system tray almost impossible.

Known bug : https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636963

Arjann · 2011-04-09 14:59:53

Kernald wrote:

jaco wrote:
wonder wrote:
@jaco after enabling, start nautilus. Somebody should report that bug upstream

I do not understand what you mean... It's enabled, i've already restarted my session, i've already launched Nautilus (the file-manager) and nothing changes...
Working here : http://mgep.ath.cx/nautilus-background.png
Like wonder said, I had to manualy launch Nautilus after the activation of the setting in gnome-tweak-tool. After a logout, I still have to manualy launch nautilus by hand. Reporting upstream.

@wonder reported it upstream https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647267

@Kernald same as your https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647269

mythus · 2011-04-09 15:58:05

Greetings,

Ok I have been using GNOME 3 for a couple days now..... and I LOVE it!

1.) It is running very fast and smooth on my desktop! CPU usage, shell and all, is around 5-8%! MEM usage is around 600 (out of 8 gig mind you), on par with KDE4, or better!

2.) Is feeling much more stable than KDE4 did when it first came out!

3.) I would never have believed it if you told me, but I am so digging the whole shell experience! Who'd of thought I'd like using alt-tab? I am now making use of workspaces, something that I never really did before.

4.) I also dig how things stay out of my way basically, allowing me to work.

5.) And yes, it all feels nicely integrated, which is a big thing for me. I love integrated desktops.

Now, lets keep something in mind here, while I am a frequent connoisseur of WM's and DE's, switching amongst different ones at different times from (DE, GNOME2, XFCE4, pekWM, JWM, Fluxbox, and the like... I had primarily been a KDE user, and like KDE4. I also liked KDE3, but anyways, I like having control and options, but have a hard time with memory which prevented me from enjoying keyboard controlled environments very well. One or two keyboard commands, no problem... pile up any more than that and I have to break out the cheat sheet constantly, which just limits my productivity. Lesson here: brain injuries != good memory. Thus my need for mouse/touchpad/etc with simple keyboard shortcuts, and plenty of options to set up a display to what I need.

The point in all that rambling is this: I thought I was going to hate GNOME3. The lack of control seemed like a big downer for me, and the screenshots and videos weren't all that convincing. In fact, I was for a bit favoring the unity/netbook launcher idea, however after trying it and disliking it on the laptop, I switched back to the old familiar KDE4. But, I decided I'll give GNOME3 a good, fair try (in testing of all things) before passing any judgment. And I have been pleasantly surprised! I am now feeling more productive than ever, and while I do want to make some theme changes (huge title bards != good design) I am patient with it because I acknowledge that GNOME 3 is new.

Here's the odd thing though... I am getting better performance with nvidia drivers than with Nouveau drivers, despite the reverse being reported by others. While both gives me blazing fast speeds, I am getting constant hard freezes with the later in GNOME3, while nvidia is running smoothly and hangup-free. I guess my computer has become the exception to the rule here. Whatever though, I have a good, stable running GNOME 3 environment and am enjoying it!

Arch Linux

#1 2011-04-08 18:26:58

[GNOME 3] First Impressions?

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