[GNOME 3] First Impressions?

Sloshy · 2011-04-09 16:58:06

bananaoomarang wrote:

Also, in Nautilus I have single click selected in the preferences and yet I still need to double click to open things. Single feels a lot nicer to me, when I check double to see if that does anything, nautilus segfaults. So I think it needs a little work on the stability side of things.
With all that said, I rather like it. Theming feels slick yet minimal (apart from the title bars on windows? They seem pretty huge, hulking and ugly.) The shell seems to work well, getting out of the way when I don't need it. Notifications are actually pleasant unlike KDE which sends me three every time I connect to a wireless router and saves them.
My one final criticism would be that both gdm and the shell itself take an age to start. I hate that about kde4 and I always loved the way both seemed to start very quickly in Gnome2. It's a real shame to lose that snappiness that KDE also lost with 4.

Nautilus single-clicking works fine for me (then again, I've had it set as that in preferences for ages, so that might have something to do with it.) If you can reproduce the bug somehow, report it on bugzilla.gnome.org. I'm sure they'd appreciate it ! As for the theming, I read today in the GNOME Usability mailing list that the UI was optimized for low-precision input devices (like laptop/netbook touchpads). If you don't need so much padding on everything, I'm sure that another, smaller GTK3 theme will be available shortly. I do agree that it takes a while to start but I'm sure that will improve eventually.

mythus wrote:

Here's the odd thing though... I am getting better performance with nvidia drivers than with Nouveau drivers, despite the reverse being reported by others. While both gives me blazing fast speeds, I am getting constant hard freezes with the later in GNOME3, while nvidia is running smoothly and hangup-free.

Huh, that is rather odd. Nvidia's binary driver, for me, had all sorts of visual glitches in Shell and Firefox 4, but when I switched to Nouveau it became much more usable (but still a tad slow for the moment). Try installing kernel26-nouveau-git from AUR. I'm finishing the install right now, and I've heard that it has some major performance improvements for Nouveau.

NekySerbia · 2011-04-09 17:13:16

My first, second and third impressions are pretty nice actually. I have never used Gnome before except some live Ubuntu discs for a couple of minutes, but all this shell experience is pretty cool to me (and my girlfriend too,a long time Windows user but likes Linux soooo much).

Its a bit slower than Compiz standalone and is using 10% more RAM and 10% more CPU power, but with dual core CPUs and gigabytes of RAM - who cares?

There is much space for improvement of course. Nautilus is a bit buggy, also Deadbeef is producing multiple OSD messages on track change. I would also like it to be more configurable in some ways (change application icon in Dash for example), but so far its stable and usable for me on daily basis.

Sloshy · 2011-04-09 17:26:48

NekySerbia wrote:

I would also like it to be more configurable in some ways (change application icon in Dash for example), but so far its stable and usable for me on daily basis.

Glad you like it, and you can do that by either editing the .desktop file directly in /usr/share/applications (not exactly advised) or by switching your icon theme. gnome-tweak-tool lets you do that, and GNOME 3 supports old GNOME 2 application icon themes

Yes · 2011-04-09 17:38:47

The lack of customization is killing me. If that doesn't improve within a few updates I'll have to go back to Awesome

solstice · 2011-04-09 18:36:38

@Yes: +1

*) where are the screensaver settings ? how do you set one ? it's gone !
*) Choosing applications is a mess. You have to make favorites in the dock.
*) why is there no "Recent applications" in the dock ?
*) Switch between window without keyboard is a mess. You have to go to the left corner and switch window
*) it's even worse to switch desktop with only the mouse. You have to go the left corner and to the far right to choose the desktop
it's a pain

I have switched to fallback mode.
I can't stand that gnome shell even if there is good idea. Isn't there any usabality ingeneer at red hat or what ?

zodmaner · 2011-04-09 18:39:00

Okay. Finish installing Gnome 3 onto my Eee PC model 701.

First impression: external screen support is bad, really bad.

This might be issue specific to the 701 hardware, but starting Gnome 3 with external screen plugged in results in jumbled screen and, after a period of inactivity, Gnome Shell crash me back to gdm. I finally had to use good old xrandr to switch to external monitor.

Other issues:
* The stupidity of having to press Alt key to show shutdown option. Oh how I would love to hear their rational for this one.
* As many people have said, if you use mouse, Gnome 3 requires you to click at least 2 clicks to starts a new application and more if you want to start application that you haven't pin on the dock. This gets old fast.
* Switching between apps requires more click than it needs to.
* The expose-like effect of Gnome 3 is inferior to that of Compiz's Expose plugin. With Compiz's Expose, after I move my mouse to top-left corner of the screen, I can choose which window from all of my virtual desktop to switch to with a single click. With Gnome 3, if the window you wish to switch to wasn't in the virtual desktop you're currently in, you had to go hunt for it.
* The lack of configuration options. It's really as bad as most people said.

Overall, I'm underwhelmed, and my expectation wasn't exactly high. The whole thing feels like a toy. A pretty toy, but a toy nonetheless. They really gone too far with simplifying stuff with this release.

Last edited by zodmaner (2011-04-09 18:41:07)

wonder · 2011-04-09 18:46:07

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636963 for the multi monitor support.

Kernald · 2011-04-09 18:57:46

With a horizontal layout for the dual-screen, I don't have any problem. Configured with the Gnome Control Center... Working just fine.

Yes · 2011-04-09 19:51:19

@zodmaner - If you're referring to what I think you are about pressing Alt to show the shutdown option, gnome-session-extensions-git might solve that. Just make sure you read the AUR page, if you use the default PKGBUILD it'll crash Gnome.

I like how you can press the windows key and then start typing, and it'll give show you apps that meet the search terms. Just like in Win7. Using the up and down arrow keys to navigate that list instead of left and right is absolutely idiotic though. There's a horizontal list of icons, I want to go to one to the right of the selected one... so I press the down key? Agh, so stupid.

Last edited by Yes (2011-04-09 19:52:43)

zodmaner · 2011-04-09 21:42:11

Yes wrote:

@zodmaner - If you're referring to what I think you are about pressing Alt to show the shutdown option, gnome-session-extensions-git might solve that. Just make sure you read the AUR page, if you use the default PKGBUILD it'll crash Gnome.

Thank you Yes, I'll take a look at gnome-session-extensions-git.

eldragon · 2011-04-09 23:24:29

Kernald wrote:

eldragon wrote:
my first impressions:
*) dual screen support is kind of useless.
im used to having two screens, one on top of the other one. of course, the bottom panel is on the top window and when it hides it appears on the bottom window. this in turn make accessing the system tray almost impossible.
Known bug : https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636963

my issue exactly.

anyway, in an overal usability point of view...i fail to be productive with it its always on its way

im already fighting to get openbox work for me cause i know gnome 3 wont cut it for me , if i wanted osx , i would get a mac.

The Unabeefer · 2011-04-10 02:10:53

Well here goes...

First, I tried an OpenSuSE based live cd and hated Gnome 3 with a passion. Then my curiosity drove me to remove XFCE4/Compiz/AWN from my system completely and force myself into Gnome 3. After a day and a half... or has it only been a day? Whatever, I am digging it.

If anything, I definitely see a lot of promise with it. I was using KDE 4 from pre-4.0 and through the psychotic 4.0 release up until a few months back. (Their direction of plasmoids and strigi/akonadi/semantics-whatnot was FAR different than how I like my bare desktop) So I tend to take releases like this and gaze off into the near and not-so-near future to guess where they plan to take the development. I was right about KDE4, and I'm fairly certain I see where they are headed with Gnome 3. I like it a lot.

A few minor complaints:

- I do like having removable devices (and ONLY removable devices) accessible from the desktop or panel. While I think they should leave that off the desktop (unless chosen by the user) I still think there should be an icon up by the volume and accessibility icons on the panel up there. A USB logo or something that will drop-down a bubble where we can access the devices.

- The title bars are WAY too huge (tall), especially with only the close button on it. I've never liked my title bars that tall, ever, and will fight to find a way to shrink them.

- If we only have the ONE current app available listed in the panel up top (by the Activities button), why can't the drop-down when you click show ALL the other open apps you can switch to??? Instead of just a "Quit (app name)" in the bubble... make it useful. Otherwise, it's just redundant wasted space. I KNOW I am looking at Firefox right now; the huge psychotically massive titlebar says it as well... and I can quit that with the X in the top right, not a bubble. No need for the redundancy if it's not useful for app switching via mouse.

- Mouse scroll on desktop to change virtual desktops please. // Also, maybe on the far left in the shade (system tray, but the other side) or on the panel, have a way to change virtual desktops. Such as on the Spaces in Mac OS X... They show a little box in the panel with "1" and then you can change with that. Just a thought, but DEFINITELY mouse scroll is needed.

- Allow me to remove the Accessibility icon up top. Don't need it, never will. (That's just a minor request)

That's all I can really think of currently... I can't wait until there are many more themes to chose from. I think in 3.2 there will be the ability to properly change themes, even tho it's in the tweak tool currently. The main problems I have simply stem from them wasting the perfectly useable space in the panel, by doing essentially NOTHING with it. Utterly pointless.

All-in-all though, I love it and where they seem to be going with it. Throw in wobbly windows and I'm a happy man.

NekySerbia · 2011-04-10 07:53:35

/\ his post +1000 agrees from me. First time Gnome user, already fallen in love.

Cosmin · 2011-04-10 08:35:05

ajschwartz wrote:

* The delete keyboard button doesn't work in nautilus (what gives!?). Need to right click > move to trash.

Ctrl+Del - to Trash
Shift+Del - delete
works

Last edited by Cosmin (2011-04-10 08:41:49)

caligo · 2011-04-10 10:03:07

The Unabeefer wrote:

The title bars are WAY too huge (tall), especially with only the close button on it. I've never liked my title bars that tall, ever, and will fight to find a way to shrink them.

I found a blog post describing how to go about doing this. You just have to edit the metacity-theme-3.xml file in /usr/share/themes/Adwaita/metacity-1/ and change title_vertical_pad to a smaller value.

My title bars now look like this -- far from perfect, but at least far more usable:

Now I just have to find a way to decrease the padding for the nautilus breadcrumbs/toolbar...

smellyman · 2011-04-10 12:45:42

caligo wrote:

The Unabeefer wrote:
The title bars are WAY too huge (tall), especially with only the close button on it. I've never liked my title bars that tall, ever, and will fight to find a way to shrink them.
I found a blog post describing how to go about doing this. You just have to edit the metacity-theme-3.xml file in /usr/share/themes/Adwaita/metacity-1/ and change title_vertical_pad to a smaller value.
My title bars now look like this -- far from perfect, but at least far more usable:

http://ompldr.org/tODc5OA
Now I just have to find a way to decrease the padding for the nautilus breadcrumbs/toolbar...

A little easier way I found was just to go into system settings-fonts and making the title bar font smaller.

adrianx · 2011-04-10 13:29:24

The Unabeefer wrote:

- If we only have the ONE current app available listed in the panel up top (by the Activities button), why can't the drop-down when you click show ALL the other open apps you can switch to??? Instead of just a "Quit (app name)" in the bubble... make it useful. Otherwise, it's just redundant wasted space. I KNOW I am looking at Firefox right now; the huge psychotically massive titlebar says it as well... and I can quit that with the X in the top right, not a bubble. No need for the redundancy if it's not useful for app switching via mouse.

They are planning to turn that into a global menu sometime in the future.

Jacek Poplawski · 2011-04-10 14:05:21

Got same problem. When there is Firefox launched I am not able to click in all application, I just see 4dtris (why?!), I don't understand how all these menus works now.

ALT+F2 almost works. When i type "rt" it does nothing, when I type "/usr/local/bin/rt" it works, but when I type "rt" in terminal it works without directory, so ALT+F2 must use different PATH than shell.

I don't understand how should I split my windows to virtual desktops now, when there are no virtual desktops. I feel like in MS Windows. I can only ALT-TAB.

I see all this eye-candy and it works fast, but where is the power of desktop?

Jacek Poplawski · 2011-04-10 14:15:25

and another thing:
1) I started terminal
2) I started rt (/usr/local/bin/rt)
3) I clicked "add to favorities"
4) rt is now in favorities
5) when I click on rt in favorities nothing happens
(probably because it's in /usr/local/bin)

jollysnowman · 2011-04-10 14:38:58

So far I really like it; I've been using it for a few days now. Gnome3 does need some more polishing, but that's expected. Gnome shell, mutter, and GTK3 are all pretty much brand new...

I have some issues though.
1) The left Windows key will bring up the Activities overlay (not sure what it's called), but my right Windows key doesn't. Does this happen to anyone else?
2) I can't play two audio streams at once. I've always used Alsa, so I don't know this is common behavior with Pulse or something new that occurs in Gnome 3.

Edit:
One more thing! This isn't really a complaint about Gnome 3 as much as it is me whining, but Gnome 3 expects consistent behavior from all applications, and it isn't here yet. Rhythmbox, Skype, all my browsers, etc., all have slight quirks that don't mesh with Gnome 3 just yet.

Last edited by jollysnowman (2011-04-10 14:58:49)

Kernald · 2011-04-10 14:58:19

@Jacek Poplawski : For the path, where do you set it for your shell ? ~/.{bash,zsh,...}rc ? You need to set it globaly (e.g. in /etc/profile).
For virtual desktops... Of course they're still here. Just switch with Ctrl + Alt + Up/Down.

@jollysnowman : My right Windows key does nothing too. Don't know if it's normal, but many laptops doesn't have a right Windows key.

Jacek Poplawski · 2011-04-10 15:09:16

this is in /etc/profile:

# Set our default path
PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin"
export PATH

so it should work but it doesn't in gnome3
terminal see PATH correctly, gnome doesn't

Last edited by Jacek Poplawski (2011-04-10 15:09:40)

Sloshy · 2011-04-10 17:07:10

Jacek Poplawski wrote:

this is in /etc/profile:
# Set our default path
PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin"
export PATH
so it should work but it doesn't in gnome3
terminal see PATH correctly, gnome doesn't

Report a bug upstream; I'm sure this isn't intended behavior.

jollysnowman wrote:

2) I can't play two audio streams at once. I've always used Alsa, so I don't know this is common behavior with Pulse or something new that occurs in Gnome 3.

That is odd... I'm using Pulse and it works out fine for me. Check your pulseaudio settings and make sure you've followed the Pulse guide on the Wiki.

The Unabeefer wrote:

- If we only have the ONE current app available listed in the panel up top (by the Activities button), why can't the drop-down when you click show ALL the other open apps you can switch to??? Instead of just a "Quit (app name)" in the bubble... make it useful. Otherwise, it's just redundant wasted space. I KNOW I am looking at Firefox right now; the huge psychotically massive titlebar says it as well... and I can quit that with the X in the top right, not a bubble. No need for the redundancy if it's not useful for app switching via mouse.

It's supposed to become a sort of "Application-as-a-whole" menu. Like, if you have an Empathy window open but you don't have the main window on the same workspace, you could click the button and get the menu bar options for the main window. Not for individual chat windows, but for things that apply to every single window. If this doesn't follow through, it might become what you say. Also, there's a difference between "close" and "quit"; clicking the X on the window corner doesn't "quit" the application, but "closes" the window. If you select "Quit" from the menu, it closes every application window related to that application. I hope that makes sense

zodmaner wrote:

* The stupidity of having to press Alt key to show shutdown option. Oh how I would love to hear their rational for this one.
* As many people have said, if you use mouse, Gnome 3 requires you to click at least 2 clicks to starts a new application and more if you want to start application that you haven't pin on the dock. This gets old fast.
* Switching between apps requires more click than it needs to.

They want to encourage suspending, something that most users often forget exists. Considering how, in most cases, you would only need to shut down your desktop once, maybe twice a day, it's considered a "power user" feature to shutdown while being logged in, and they allow "power users" to do so. You can still shutdown from GDM and that's the preferred option for users who find it complicated to use Alt (inexperienced users). Also, you don't need "two clicks" to start an application, only one (if I'm not mistaken, it takes two clicks to start an application in GNOME 2 as well). Flick your mouse to the top-left corner and click a favorite app. Also, the "Applications" menu is meant to be used sparingly, when you don't know what an application is called. Otherwise, just search for it and add it to the dock. And Alt+Tab can be used to switch applications in groups and Alt+` to switch between windows of the same application.

Kernald · 2011-04-10 17:20:01

In fact, there's no need to click to launch an application. You can use Alt + F2 like in Gnome, or Meta to display the Overview, and type the begining of the name of the application, or something related, e.g. «internet» gives me Chromium. Select the right application with arrows, and press enter… Much easier than Gnome 2 to don't use the mouse.

Sloshy · 2011-04-10 17:33:47

Kernald wrote:

...Meta...

Reminds me: there needs to be a decision, once and for all, what to call that silly little button. Win[dows] Key? Meta? Super? Option? I think "Activities Key", for GNOME 3's sake, sounds best.

Arch Linux

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