gentoo to arch - good to see

cactus · 2005-05-25 06:51:16

:shock:
*puts his gun away and looks around nervously*

iphitus · 2005-05-25 10:53:12

miqorz wrote:

Someone close this damn thread or atleast move it to off topic.
Who gives a fuck what distro someone uses? If people use arch. Let them. if someone wants to use gentoo, that's their problem.
There's no reason for this constant back and forth to keep going.
neither side will budge and it will just end up lame.
im so fucking sick of hearing about gentoo in general, i especially don't want to see this shit here.

Some people might not want to hear your useless shit here either, so maybe send it to /dev/null or your dead ##archlinux-ng.

There was actually some discussion, please, if you dont have anything usefull to contribute, dont post. we know how you feel, and thats nice, believe it or not my ignorant friend, there exists other opinions than yours.

iphitus

kcy29581 · 2005-05-25 13:54:01

iphitus wrote:

miqorz wrote:
Someone close this damn thread or atleast move it to off topic.
Who gives a fuck what distro someone uses? If people use arch. Let them. if someone wants to use gentoo, that's their problem.
There's no reason for this constant back and forth to keep going.
neither side will budge and it will just end up lame.
im so fucking sick of hearing about gentoo in general, i especially don't want to see this shit here.
Some people might not want to hear your useless shit here either, so maybe send it to /dev/null or your dead ##archlinux-ng.
There was actually some discussion, please, if you dont have anything usefull to contribute, dont post. we know how you feel, and thats nice, believe it or not my ignorant friend, there exists other opinions than yours.
iphitus

I was hoping he'd change by now... Maybe his post should be moved to dustbin like his other one?

Anyways.. on topic! I love use flags and I agree with the above idea that they are not a hindrance. They merely add features on top of those you might need. For example when installing vlc you get a working vlc. However in order to follow suite with patents etc... (there's a thread in the gentoo forums right now about this) they do not make the operating system wotk with mp3's directly you HAVE to choose it! I agree with that as less attacks can happen to Gentoo from money-grabbing lawers.

End of the day... USE flags are only the same options that the developers of individual software have in their programs. Unless anyone is going to claim that Gentoo devs rewrite software...?

phrakture · 2005-05-25 15:12:55

kcy29581 wrote:

Anyways.. on topic! I love use flags and I agree with the above idea that they are not a hindrance. They merely add features on top of those you might need. For example when installing vlc you get a working vlc.

The thing is that, as was said above, use flags do nothing but replicate what the developers have done with their original software.

The reason I bring this up is that so many people say that arch would benefit from something like USE flags.

I think it's a waste of time. A vast majority of programs are setup like the KDE+samba stuff I mentioned. Adding a "USE=samba" flag into the mix complicates things (again, I point out - go look at a X.org PKGBUILD and ebuild side by side... the ebuild is like 1200 lines, the PKGBUILD is like 50)...

For those programs not setup to optionally use other software if it exists on the host system, just contact the developer... have them fix their crap...

miqorz · 2005-05-25 15:38:23

This thread seems to have drifted less about Arch VS. Gentoo to "What's good about gentoo?"

It should be cut in half and sent to General Linux or Off Topic.

Maybe I should go to the gentoo forums when I want to read about Arch related topics. Seems to be the thinking around these parts.

phrakture · 2005-05-25 15:46:41

miqorz wrote:

This thread seems to have drifted less about Arch VS. Gentoo to "What's good about gentoo?"

you're wrong - people have mentioned adding something akin to USE flags in Arch for some time, and I am simply refuting that claim here.

tyme · 2005-05-25 15:47:05

what i don't get is why people feel the need to compare arch and gentoo. they are two seperate distro's, with two different goals.

arch's goal - i686 optimization, prebuilt binary packages
gentoo's goal - optimized for whatever you're running, build everything from source.

apples and oranges my friends.

(i'm sure this has been said but i'm not going to read through 4 pages of debate just to find it).

kcy29581 · 2005-05-25 15:52:44

phrakture wrote:

kcy29581 wrote:
Anyways.. on topic! I love use flags and I agree with the above idea that they are not a hindrance. They merely add features on top of those you might need. For example when installing vlc you get a working vlc.
The thing is that, as was said above, use flags do nothing but replicate what the developers have done with their original software.
The reason I bring this up is that so many people say that arch would benefit from something like USE flags.
I think it's a waste of time. A vast majority of programs are setup like the KDE+samba stuff I mentioned. Adding a "USE=samba" flag into the mix complicates things (again, I point out - go look at a X.org PKGBUILD and ebuild side by side... the ebuild is like 1200 lines, the PKGBUILD is like 50)...
For those programs not setup to optionally use other software if it exists on the host system, just contact the developer... have them fix their crap...

I agree with you phrak. The only way to add USE flags in Arch is to contact the maintainer and plead with him to add an ALREADY-EXISTING feature. If you add USE flags in Arch then suddenly you have too many versions of the same package.. thats a waste.

Arch is great for what it is. If you think a feature is missing, well file a feature request.

kcy29581 · 2005-05-25 15:53:37

tyme wrote:

what i don't get is why people feel the need to compare arch and gentoo. they are two seperate distro's, with two different goals.
arch's goal - i686 optimization, prebuilt binary packages
gentoo's goal - optimized for whatever you're running, build everything from source.
apples and oranges my friends.
(i'm sure this has been said but i'm not going to read through 4 pages of debate just to find it).

it has been said but i think you've said it in the nicest possible way!

phrakture · 2005-05-25 15:56:54

ok, just a note - no one is comparing arch to gentoo... it's feature A vs feature B, but it just so happens that feature A is in gentoo, and feature B is in arch

tyme · 2005-05-26 03:38:39

but feature A and feature B are features of those distro's and exists in those distro's because of their goals!

what i've read is discussing USE flags, USE flags exist in gentoo because it's goal is to provide the ability to the user to optimize the system as much as possible and to their liking.

obviously, these don't exist in arch because this is not arch's goal!

kcy29581: thnx, and btw, foamy rocks

kcy29581 · 2005-05-26 11:53:56

tyme wrote:

but feature A and feature B are features of those distro's and exists in those distro's because of their goals!
what i've read is discussing USE flags, USE flags exist in gentoo because it's goal is to provide the ability to the user to optimize the system as much as possible and to their liking.
obviously, these don't exist in arch because this is not arch's goal!
kcy29581: thnx, and btw, foamy rocks

I agree with ya fully. And yes Foamy is GOD! But Pilz-E rocks more 8)

eean · 2005-06-11 06:03:08

tyme wrote:

but feature A and feature B are features of those distro's and exists in those distro's because of their goals!
what i've read is discussing USE flags, USE flags exist in gentoo because it's goal is to provide the ability to the user to optimize the system as much as possible and to their liking.
obviously, these don't exist in arch because this is not arch's goal!
kcy29581: thnx, and btw, foamy rocks

USE flags aren't as much about optimization, as it is deciding what features you want a package to have. Its a problem all distros have to solve or ignore. For instance Arch has amarok-base and amarok-base-mysqlfree, whereas Gentoo has a USE flag. Or Debian has those optional deps (using them never made much sense to me). Gentoo ricers use CFLAGS to make their system uber-funrolled-l33t optimized.

I'm a 64-bit Gentoo user looking for a low maintance 32-bit chroot, I only need xine, java and Flash-enabled Firefox. Now if only I had a distribution as simple (as-in basic) to install as Gentoo that wasn't so high maintance, I'd be doing good.

Riklaunim · 2005-06-13 06:33:31

Arch
+ all in rc.conf
+ simple and easy pacman
- not so may pkgs

Gentoo
+ excelent for servers etc.
+ some guis to browse installed packages and their locations
+ also for non-i686 users
- you need a good CPU/RAM to emerge things resonably fast
- config in multiple files
- stable-testing debianisation (like KDE 3.4.* is ~testing)

iphitus · 2005-06-13 06:46:57

Riklaunim wrote:

Arch
+ all in rc.conf
+ simple and easy pacman
- not so may pkgs

+ plenty of packages. look in AUR.
+ excellent for servers etc.
+ also for non-i686 users, see i586 and amd64 ports.

Gentoo
+ excelent for servers etc.
+ some guis to browse installed packages and their locations
+ also for non-i686 users
- you need a good CPU/RAM to emerge things resonably fast
- config in multiple files
- stable-testing debianisation (like KDE 3.4.* is ~testing)

phrakture · 2005-06-13 07:54:35

Riklaunim wrote:

Gentoo
+ excelent for servers etc.

that's not true... its bad for serversbecause you're not using pretested binaries...

cactus · 2005-06-13 08:22:37

Nothing like having your server slow to a crawl because it is compiling everything too. Yikes.
I hear gentoo does have some type of bolt on support for binaries, so you could have a devel box compile all the software for a server farm, then just distribute the binaries..but if you are doing that, might as well use something that was created for binaries..like arch.

dtw · 2005-06-13 09:28:12

wait - hold everything - this was NEVER a gentoo vs arch thread - just cos someone can't be arsed to read the rest so just posts and turns it into one lets not go down that road!

Riklaunim · 2005-06-13 15:44:36

iphitus wrote:

+ plenty of packages. look in AUR.
+ excellent for servers etc.
+ also for non-i686 users, see i586 and amd64 ports.

AUR is big but if you need something specific like some tcl/tk extensions which I use you won't find them in AUR (now). For normal desktops Arch is very good but if you need something low-popular or you have let say a server for a realy big site like this you fight for every bit of free ram and CPU power Gentoo is very good for specific hardware like multiple CPU or PPC/SPARC & Other things where arch can't be used and you don't want debian... kernel.org got such server and I'm quite sure that kernel.org isn't powered by x68 SuSE 9.3

but give ARCH a year or two and there will be 29 CDs of packages and you will be able to arch-emerge from PKGBUILDS everything from source if you want to

Dusty · 2005-06-13 15:50:32

Riklaunim wrote:

but give ARCH a year or two and there will be 29 CDs of packages and you will be able to arch-emerge from PKGBUILDS everything from source if you want to

Its called srcpac, not arch-emerge.

Dusty

dtw · 2005-06-13 15:53:09

if you need something specific like some tcl/tk extensions which I use you won't find them in AUR (now)

and they never will be unless you put them in there dude - or is that what you mean by (now)?

Riklaunim · 2005-06-13 17:18:44

dibblethewrecker wrote:

if you need something specific like some tcl/tk extensions which I use you won't find them in AUR (now)
and they never will be unless you put them in there dude - or is that what you mean by (now)?

yes... I'm working on it

zsoltika · 2005-06-16 18:48:37

Riklaunim wrote:

Arch
+ all in rc.conf
+ simple and easy pacman
- not so may pkgs
Gentoo
+ excelent for servers etc.
+ some guis to browse installed packages and their locations
+ also for non-i686 users
- you need a good CPU/RAM to emerge things resonably fast
- config in multiple files
- stable-testing debianisation (like KDE 3.4.* is ~testing)

Arch
+ excellent for those (like me) who hated that on a celeron 2.4 it took almost 2-3 day to compile Openoffice and/or KDE and/or Gnome
Gentoo
+ excellent community (<offtopic> BTW I hate this thing i heard recently about suspending a developer (ciaranm, my favourite). </offtopic>
+ excellent learning process

Just a week ago rm -rf gentoo @ my workplace-workstation after trying arch at home.

dtw · 2005-09-26 07:34:12

I just had a further thought about this. We are still getting a significant number of gentoo users turning up here and contributing with zeal but it occured to me today, while browsing the gentoo site, that gentoo is MASSIVE and has a huge amount of resources behind it and huge user base, yet we are happily contending. In this sense we do, in fact, rock.

cactus · 2005-09-26 08:00:52

arch has some serious issues right now. But they are being worked on from what i hear...

So..I guess we still rock, but in a kinduv partied out and a bit hungover after a large party type sense...still rockin, but more quietly until the bad headache and dry heaves go away..

Arch Linux

#51 2005-05-25 06:51:16

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#52 2005-05-25 10:53:12

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#53 2005-05-25 13:54:01

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#54 2005-05-25 15:12:55

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#55 2005-05-25 15:38:23

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#56 2005-05-25 15:46:41

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#57 2005-05-25 15:47:05

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#58 2005-05-25 15:52:44

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#59 2005-05-25 15:53:37

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#60 2005-05-25 15:56:54

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#61 2005-05-26 03:38:39

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#62 2005-05-26 11:53:56

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#63 2005-06-11 06:03:08

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#64 2005-06-13 06:33:31

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#65 2005-06-13 06:46:57

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#66 2005-06-13 07:54:35

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#67 2005-06-13 08:22:37

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#68 2005-06-13 09:28:12

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#69 2005-06-13 15:44:36

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#70 2005-06-13 15:50:32

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#71 2005-06-13 15:53:09

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#72 2005-06-13 17:18:44

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#73 2005-06-16 18:48:37

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#74 2005-09-26 07:34:12

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

#75 2005-09-26 08:00:52

Re: gentoo to arch - good to see

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