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#1 2005-06-20 10:06:49

Ecco
Member
Registered: 2005-01-23
Posts: 13

Strange udev problem

Since devfs support is about to be permanently removed from arch, I'd figure this is the perfect time to try and solve a little issue I have with my laptop and udev.
Well, maybe it's a bit late, but I couldn't really be bothered so far tongue

The strangest thing happens. About 2 seconds after it finishes booting into xfce, the screen gets all messed up; it looks like it's using only 256 colors or something. Even worse, my keyboard doesn't respond to anything anymore, I can't even ctrl-alt-backspace my way out of X.
Some things still work, and some do not: I can start apps from the mouse-menu in xfce, but the xfce panel is dead. I can still log out and go back to gdm. If I do that however, the problem is still there. With no working keyboard, still no way to switch to a console or anything.
The only way out is starting the XDMCP Chooser in gdm, and then exit again so the X server gets restarted. After that all problems are gone  :?:

The irritating thing is, I had the same thing with devfs once. It happened when I put gdm as first to load in the deamons line in rc.conf. When I made it load last, everything worked just fine. After that, just to try to replicate the problem, I moved gdm to the front again, but the problem was gone :?
After quite a while of using my laptop without any problems I noticed it was still using devfs (normally I install udev right away) so I made the kernel load without devfs.
Udev loaded just fine, and everything seemed to be working allright. Right up until about 2 seconds after xfce loaded, the old problem was back. Only with udev the problem is _always_ there.
It doesn't matter when I load gdm. It doesn't matter wether or not I use ati-drivers. It doesn't matter which kernel I use (I tried the stock kernel, mm-sources, ck, cko, nitro sources, you name it).

If anyone has any idea what the problem could be, or any thoughts on what I could try to fiddle with, I would be most grateful.

The laptop is a Sony VAIO A115S (Centrino 1.6, ipw2200, ati mobility 9200).
I didn't post in laptop issues because I'm not sure what sort of problem it is...

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#2 2005-06-20 20:27:04

i3839
Member
Registered: 2004-02-04
Posts: 1,185

Re: Strange udev problem

If you use hotplug, try putting the video modules in rc.conf, so that you don't have to wait till hotplug is finished.

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#3 2005-06-20 21:48:45

Ecco
Member
Registered: 2005-01-23
Posts: 13

Re: Strange udev problem

i3839 wrote:

If you use hotplug, try putting the video modules in rc.conf, so that you don't have to wait till hotplug is finished.

Thanks for your input. I have agpgart and fglrx in rc.conf, so they're definately loaded before either hotplug or X starts...
I also tried putting all the modules that are loaded into rc.conf, but still the same. I tried booting without hotplug: no change. I tried loading with just gdm and it worked. I'll try removing all daemon's one by one and see if I can pinpoint the problem...

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#4 2005-06-20 22:05:47

i3839
Member
Registered: 2004-02-04
Posts: 1,185

Re: Strange udev problem

Try looking in the X and kernel logfiles, perhaps there's some info there. Maybe adding the drm modules helps, or probably not, but trying won't hurt. Very strange behaviour...

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#5 2005-06-20 22:44:22

Ecco
Member
Registered: 2005-01-23
Posts: 13

Re: Strange udev problem

I can't find anything worth mentioning in any of the logs. The Xorg log that's produced when the problem occurs is nearly identical to when I restart X and don't have the problem:

Xorg log when first booting
Xorg when X is restarted
diff of the two
/var/log/kernel/current
/var/log/everything/current

The problem occurs wether I use ati drivers or not, and drm or not sad

What might be worth mentioning is that I used to run gentoo on this laptop for a bit with basically the same setup and didn't have this problem. Also, when I use devfs the problem is simply completely gone. In fact I'm starting to doubt I ever had the problem with devfs, it was a long time ago and for all my memory's worth I could have been trying to install udev then too tongue
But strange behaviour indeed  :?

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#6 2005-06-20 23:14:21

i3839
Member
Registered: 2004-02-04
Posts: 1,185

Re: Strange udev problem

Do you use any framebuffer drivers or something?

(WW) xf86OpenConsole: Could not save ownership of VT

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#7 2005-06-20 23:26:54

Ecco
Member
Registered: 2005-01-23
Posts: 13

Re: Strange udev problem

Yes, I use the VESA driver, but only for a high res console.
I just tried loading the kernel without the 'vga=733' but there's no change.
I appreciate your help smile

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#8 2005-06-21 16:21:13

i3839
Member
Registered: 2004-02-04
Posts: 1,185

Re: Strange udev problem

Do you also have the problem when you boot to console and start X with "startx" or "xinit"?

And is it correct that your keyboard is dead when it happens, even no capslock or other lights do anything?

But you still can use the mouse??

Why do you run gconfd when you use xfce and not gnome?

Does it also happen without hal, and with another WM? Does disabling hotplug after bootup help? (echo /bin/false > /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug)

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#9 2005-06-21 18:15:06

Ecco
Member
Registered: 2005-01-23
Posts: 13

Re: Strange udev problem

i3839 wrote:

Do you also have the problem when you boot to console and start X with "startx" or "xinit"?

No, the problem only occurs when I boot into gdm. I had gdm start xfce automatically, but when I just start gdm during boot, nothing happens. Then when I manually log in to any DE it happens again. No matter how long I wait before logging in.

And is it correct that your keyboard is dead when it happens, even no capslock or other lights do anything?

Yep, it's completely dead. The VAIO laptops use a seperate controller for the function keys though, and they still work fine.

But you still can use the mouse??

I can, but sometimes it moves a bit chunky compared to usual. It seems completely random though. Like the thing with the screen where it looks like it uses only 256 colors; it happens most of the time, but not always. Which makes this whole problem seem like something mystic. Almost as if my laptop is...  self aware... tongue

Why do you run gconfd when you use xfce and not gnome?

Honestly, I don't know. I used to use gnome for a bit but changed over to xfce although I do use most gnome programs still. As far as I know all that's started is what xfce4 init script starts. I tried removing my .xfce folders to see if that makes a difference... but no go.

Does it also happen without hal, and with another WM? Does disabling hotplug after bootup help? (echo /bin/false > /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug)

Yes it happens without hal. To be sure I removed hal altogether and it didn't make a difference. I'll try to start xfce without the WM and see if it makes a difference...
Disabling hotplug didn't change anything either sad

If it's not hotplug I'm sure it must be udev somehow, since it simply doesn't happen when using devfs? But how? This whole problem is just bizar, especially the randomness aspect of it.

Also, after a lot of googling I found one post somewhere (I can't remember where it was) of a guy who had a sort of similar problem, and he fixed it by setting the "AGPMode" option to something low in xorg.conf. Only first of all, as far as I know X sets this to '1' by default anyway, and second of all, the option is ignored according to my X logs.
And once again, if that's the problem, why wouldn't it be there when using devfs?
I'm thinking of reinstalling arch completely, just to rule out anything messed up on my part.

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#10 2005-06-21 22:01:34

i3839
Member
Registered: 2004-02-04
Posts: 1,185

Re: Strange udev problem

I don't think this is an udev problem, or something very weird is going on. To rule it out do the following: "cp -a" your current /dev to somewhere save, and disable udev. If /dev/ is mounted as tmpfs or something then mount your root partition to some random dir and copy the udev generated /dev content after the second try when it works to randomdir/dev/. So in short mount, copy, disable udev, reboot. If you do something wrong you may need to enable udev with a livecd.

Try twm or something, anything else than xfce. Using xfce but without the wm won't help.

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#11 2005-06-22 08:56:07

Ecco
Member
Registered: 2005-01-23
Posts: 13

Re: Strange udev problem

i3839 wrote:

I don't think this is an udev problem, or something very weird is going on. To rule it out do the following: "cp -a" your current /dev to somewhere save, and disable udev. If /dev/ is mounted as tmpfs or something then mount your root partition to some random dir and copy the udev generated /dev content after the second try when it works to randomdir/dev/. So in short mount, copy, disable udev, reboot. If you do something wrong you may need to enable udev with a livecd.

Try twm or something, anything else than xfce. Using xfce but without the wm won't help.

Well we can rule out xfce and associates now. I just started my laptop and it _did_ do the same thing while still in gdm. It simply looks as though everything loads fine but somewhere near the end of booting something happens, and if X is already loaded at that time we have a problem. Only I can't pinpoint any of the startup deamons nor rc.local to be the cause.
How exactly does copying /dev when udev is loaded en then rebooting without udev tell me wether udev is the problem or not? All nodes left after rebooting are core, fd/, null, pts/, shm/, stderr, stdin and stdout.
Or was that not what you meant? I never fiddled much with these things...

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#12 2005-06-22 16:34:41

i3839
Member
Registered: 2004-02-04
Posts: 1,185

Re: Strange udev problem

For now I give up and blame gdm. ;-)

After reboot you should copy the saved /dev/ content to /dev, that way you have the same device nodes but without udev. Though it's not really a good test anyway, so I wouldn't bother.

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#13 2005-06-22 21:36:23

Ecco
Member
Registered: 2005-01-23
Posts: 13

Re: Strange udev problem

i3839 wrote:

For now I give up and blame gdm. ;-)

After reboot you should copy the saved /dev/ content to /dev, that way you have the same device nodes but without udev. Though it's not really a good test anyway, so I wouldn't bother.

Ha!
/me gives gdm a scolding.

Seriously, I'm going to try reinstalling the whole thing because the thing has gotten a mess over time anyway. Thanks a lot for your help!
I'll be posting again if it gives me the same shit after a clean reinstall though tongue

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#14 2005-06-29 18:38:31

Ecco
Member
Registered: 2005-01-23
Posts: 13

Re: Strange udev problem

So far so good. After a basic install with udev and gdm starting right away there don't seem to be any problems accept for my touchpad being really chunky. Switching to devfs didn't make the problem disappear though, so this is something completely different.
I still wonder what the hell was going on because the problem might just decide to come back and spoil my mood just like that...

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#15 2005-06-29 22:28:31

i3839
Member
Registered: 2004-02-04
Posts: 1,185

Re: Strange udev problem

Try turning your laptop 180 degrees, perhaps that makes the problem coming back... (Or wait till the next full moon)

If the problem is really gone, but returns, then check what you updated or installed just before it went wrong again later.

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