KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

Cdh · 2011-07-28 16:50:37

It seems to need proper egl support also as kwin doesn't even build with GL ES 2.0 without libegl.

Griemak · 2011-07-28 17:21:40

Nvidia supports OpenGL ES 2.0. It does not, however, provide the libraries separated out. As a test, if your OpenGL is on version "4.1", symlink the GLES library to Nvidia's libgl (that replaced Mesa) and it will work (as in, it will properly support GL ES, but I guess "work" means no errors which probably isn't 100% correct). Nvidia includes OpenGL ES 2.0 support with 4.1. Symlinking the libGLES library to libGL was a dirty hack workaround for Chromium's WebGL implementation somewhere between version 9 and 10 (beta) for those with Geforce 400 and 500 series cards (ATI's 5000 and 6000 fall into this boat as well)

As for libegl... dunno. Would symlinking it to Nvidia's libgl also work?

Bigger question: Nvidia's driver for Embedded Systems (what the 'ES' stands for) has full support and the libraries included through the developer-Tegra part of their webpages/FTP. Could the libegl and other needed libraries be lifted from there?

Gianfrix · 2011-07-28 19:17:17

Griemak wrote:

Bigger question: Nvidia's driver for Embedded Systems (what the 'ES' stands for) has full support and the libraries included through the developer-Tegra part of their webpages/FTP.

Any link? I can't find them

Griemak · 2011-07-28 20:36:28

I couldn't find them either, just white-papers referencing their existence... I was hoping maybe someone else had access

http://developer.download.nvidia.com/te … opment.pdf

Maybe someone with more knowledge can formulate a bug ticket for KDE? I read through it a few times, but am not knowledgeable enough about OpenGL, ES, Kwin, etc. to be of any help. Also, I'm using a desktop (560ti) and would see no performance gain from any of it. I could (time constraints) assist in testing if it "just works", but it anything it would be a performance degradation for me. If "just work" is a goal and others find something useful to test on, count me in.

smakked · 2011-07-28 22:02:52

SO after all that it doesnt work on my card LOL GTS450, with neither nvidia or nouveau
Thats a disapointment

reflexing · 2011-07-28 22:04:51

Pierre wrote:

I just tested the gl es version and it wont work with the nvidia driver.

Startup mesages are:

libEGL warning: DRI2: failed to authenticate                                                                                                                           
libEGL warning: DRI2: failed to open swrast (search paths /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri)
libEGL warning: DRI2: failed to open swrastg (search paths /usr/lib/xorg/modules/dri)
OpenGL vendor string:                   VMware, Inc.
OpenGL renderer string:                 Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe
OpenGL version string:                  OpenGL ES 2.0 Mesa 7.11-rc3
Driver:                                 LLVMpipe
GPU class:                              Unknown
OpenGL version:                         2.0
Mesa version:                           7.11
X server version:                       1.10.3
Linux kernel version:                   3.0
Direct rendering:                       yes
Requires strict binding:                yes
GLSL shaders:                           no
Texture NPOT support:                   yes
kwin(2162): Required extension EGL_KHR_image_pixmap not found, disabling compositing 
kwin(2162): Failed to initialize compositing, compositing disabled 
kwin(2162): Consult http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KWin/4.0-release-notes#Setting_up

Using the regular OpenGL version from testing gives me the following output:

OpenGL vendor string:                   NVIDIA Corporation                                                                                                             
OpenGL renderer string:                 GeForce GTX 460/PCI/SSE2
OpenGL version string:                  4.1.0 NVIDIA 275.21
OpenGL shading language version string: 4.10 NVIDIA via Cg compiler
Driver:                                 NVIDIA
Driver version:                         275.21
GPU class:                              GF100
OpenGL version:                         4.1
GLSL version:                           4.10
X server version:                       1.10.3
Linux kernel version:                   3.0
Direct rendering:                       yes
Requires strict binding:                no
GLSL shaders:                           yes
Texture NPOT support:                   yes

confirmed with Catalyst 11.7 on ATI Radeon 5770 too, OpenGL compositing just doesn't work with similar errors in logs.

Demon · 2011-07-28 23:49:50

Works fantastic here!

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3429/87080418.png

mangus · 2011-07-29 07:39:17

smakked wrote:

SO after all that it doesnt work on my card LOL GTS450, with neither nvidia or nouveau
Thats a disapointment

Same here, reverted to kde-workspace-02 in testing. If someone find some workaround to test on nvidia blob let us now here
BTW shouldn't this thread be in testing section? I found it googling around searching for the same error of Pierre lol

mahen · 2011-07-29 09:41:57

BTW guys, I tried the regular version from testing with my GF 9800 GTX. Strangely, it performed very poorly : moving windows turned jerky while it used to be perfectly smooth in 4.6.x. (nvidia proprietary drivers)

(Generally, I have no idea why kwin performs differently when using the same KDE and Nvidia drivers versions, depending on the distros.)

Last edited by mahen (2011-07-29 09:43:06)

George · 2011-07-29 12:04:55

mahen;
Try looking at the settings in the advanced panel of the desktop effects in SystemSettings - there have been several changes besides the addition of GLES. If that doesn't help I'd suggest you start a different thread.

Mad Fish · 2011-07-29 19:03:45

Why the hype? OpenGL ES 2.x is just a subset (almost) of OpenGL 2.x, without fixed-function pipeline. Driver is the same anyway.

jerf · 2011-07-30 06:55:22

Mad Fish wrote:

Why the hype? OpenGL ES 2.x is just a subset (almost) of OpenGL 2.x, without fixed-function pipeline. Driver is the same anyway.

The reason of the hype is that the alternative to OpenGL ES 2.0 (this alternative was the only choice prior to 4.7) is not OpenGL 2.0 backend, but OpenGL 1.0 one with some rather ugly code. Take a look at this and other posts in Martin Gräßlin's blog.

Last edited by jerf (2011-07-30 07:00:00)

dikei · 2011-07-30 13:09:17

jerf wrote:

Mad Fish wrote:
Why the hype? OpenGL ES 2.x is just a subset (almost) of OpenGL 2.x, without fixed-function pipeline. Driver is the same anyway.
The reason of the hype is that the alternative to OpenGL ES 2.0 (this alternative was the only choice prior to 4.7) is not OpenGL 2.0 backend, but OpenGL 1.0 one with some rather ugly code. Take a look at this and other posts in Martin Gräßlin's blog.

He said clearly in that post that kwin in KDE 4.7 use OpenGL 2.x backend. Also, in the settings, there's an option to use OpenGL 2 shaders.

voidux · 2011-07-30 13:18:28

Hi there!

I've compiled and installed this package, but kwin won't start:

OpenGL vendor string:                   Tungsten Graphics, Inc
OpenGL renderer string:                 Mesa DRI Intel(R) 945GM 
OpenGL version string:                  OpenGL ES 2.0 Mesa 7.11-rc3
OpenGL shading language version string: OpenGL ES GLSL ES 1.0.16
Driver:                                 Intel
GPU class:                              i915/i945
OpenGL version:                         2.0
GLSL version:                           1.0.16
Mesa version:                           7.11
X server version:                       1.10.3
Linux kernel version:                   3.0
Direct rendering:                       yes
Requires strict binding:                yes
GLSL shaders:                           limited
Texture NPOT support:                   yes
kwin(2983): Shaders are not supported 
kwin(2983): Shaders not valid, ES compositing not possible 
kwin(2983): Failed to initialize compositing, compositing disabled 
kwin(2983): Consult http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KWin/4.0-release-notes#Setting_up

Does that mean that my video (Intel GMA 950) doesn't support OpenGL ES 2.0 (or contrariwise GLES doesn't support my video)?

It looks like all I need is installed:

local/intel-dri 7.11rc3-1
local/libegl 7.11rc3-1 
local/libgl 7.11rc3-1 
local/libglapi 7.11rc3-1
local/libgles 7.11rc3-1 
local/mesa 7.11rc3-1 
local/mesa-demos 8.0.1-1

and I checked that mesa package is compiled with --enable-gles1 --enable-gles2 --enable-egl flags...

newgargamel · 2011-07-30 16:09:00

bash wrote:

Hi all, I disabled Open GL ES because on some proprietary hardware it's unable to enable compositing (works fine here on an Intel). Anyway, I'll push soon a kdebase-workspace 4.7.0-3 in [kde-unstable] with Open GL ES enabled to get some extra-feedback.

bash, kdebase-workspace 4.7.0-3 in [kde-unstable] with Open GL ES enabled brakes my setup with nvidia driver. Reverting to 0-2 solved it.

jerf · 2011-07-30 16:48:19

dikei wrote:

jerf wrote:
Mad Fish wrote:
Why the hype? OpenGL ES 2.x is just a subset (almost) of OpenGL 2.x, without fixed-function pipeline. Driver is the same anyway.
The reason of the hype is that the alternative to OpenGL ES 2.0 (this alternative was the only choice prior to 4.7) is not OpenGL 2.0 backend, but OpenGL 1.0 one with some rather ugly code. Take a look at this and other posts in Martin Gräßlin's blog.
He said clearly in that post that kwin in KDE 4.7 use OpenGL 2.x backend. Also, in the settings, there's an option to use OpenGL 2 shaders.

What he said was

Martin Gräßlin wrote:

Thanks to the work on OpenGL ES 2.0 our default compositing backend is now OpenGL 2.x based instead of OpenGL 1.x as it was till 4.6.

I take it that under OpenGL 2.x he means this OpenGL ES 2.0 backend which is the subject of this topic.

Last edited by jerf (2011-07-30 16:57:17)

George · 2011-07-30 17:28:38

AFAIK KWin can use OpenGL 2.x or OpenGL ES 2.0. The work on the GLES version allowed the main version to be updated to GL 2.x since the two are variations of the same thing. Martin Gräßlin does say in several posts that he finds that the GLES version (where it is supported) works better than the full GL version.

jerf · 2011-07-31 16:43:42

George wrote:

AFAIK KWin can use OpenGL 2.x or OpenGL ES 2.0. The work on the GLES version allowed the main version to be updated to GL 2.x since the two are variations of the same thing. Martin Gräßlin does say in several posts that he finds that the GLES version (where it is supported) works better than the full GL version.

Then I misunderstood, sorry.

sumski · 2011-07-31 17:35:22

https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/k … 54b6bb3d61
https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/k … 0732385282

mahen · 2011-08-01 10:22:34

George : well, I tried every single option... Some fellows on the kubuntu forums also report big performance regressions with Nvidia cards when updating to 4.7. What about you guys ? I could use the Nouveau driver instead, but I never managed to get vsync working, which is a showstopper to me

Well, if anyone can recommend an ATI card which is not too slow, fanless and works great with OSS drivers and Kwin (with vsync !!), I will probably switch ;-)

Last edited by mahen (2011-08-01 10:27:05)

George · 2011-08-01 11:44:30

mahen;
Sorry, I've not got anything with an up to date nvidia card to test with, I've had no problems with my Intel or old nvidia systems. You could try using the xrender compositing as a temporary work around.

71KR117 · 2011-08-05 22:57:43

mahen wrote:

George : well, I tried every single option... Some fellows on the kubuntu forums also report big performance regressions with Nvidia cards when updating to 4.7. What about you guys ? I could use the Nouveau driver instead, but I never managed to get vsync working, which is a showstopper to me
Well, if anyone can recommend an ATI card which is not too slow, fanless and works great with OSS drivers and Kwin (with vsync !!), I will probably switch ;-)

Well, my 3450 works. If you get a 3650, I think it has more memory but uses the same GPU.
I might try KDE later. I don't want to screw up my perfect GNOME3.

sumski · 2011-08-06 06:29:47

Well, i have mobile 3650 , and if my memory serves me , it works without tearing using OSS drivers (and KWin literally flies - i tried it with GL ES kdebase-workspace and performance is fantastic) , altough powersaving could be much better - fans are really loud without powersaving , and to actually achive powersaving i need to recompile kernel - https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37112

mahen · 2011-09-01 10:08:50

Hey guys, did you make some progress meanwhile ? I gave KDE 4.7.0 / Arch another try (nvidia 9800 GTX, 3 GHz core2duo) but it's still... less smooth than ever, with both proprietary and nouveau drivers.

What is slow ? Any window operation. And that most annoying is : playing flash videos or VLC with vdpau : it's definitely not smooth either. Games (except when disabling kwin) are frequently being displayed at half the FPS (even simple ones). :'(

It's actually almost unusable. I tried many settings : disabling twinview, adding triple buffering, dis/enabling vsync here and there (nvidia settings etc). There's something *very* wrong. On the same setup, compiz is butter smooth and 4.6.x is OK (though not perfect either).

On Martin's blog, you can see he is definitely improving the situation for KDE 4.7.2 and 4.8 but I don't think he's aware of the current regressions.

Any idea guys ?

http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2 … 60-frames/

Or any cheap fanless GPU non-nvidia GPU I can buy, which would work perfectly with kwin ? (with vsync ;-)

Last edited by mahen (2011-09-01 10:10:23)

flamelab · 2011-09-01 10:16:26

You'll regret it if you buy a non-nvidia GPU for Linux desktop, they are only ones which will work the best on Linux.

Arch Linux

#26 2011-07-28 16:50:37

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#27 2011-07-28 17:21:40

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#28 2011-07-28 19:17:17

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#29 2011-07-28 20:36:28

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#30 2011-07-28 22:02:52

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#31 2011-07-28 22:04:51

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#32 2011-07-28 23:49:50

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#33 2011-07-29 07:39:17

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#34 2011-07-29 09:41:57

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#35 2011-07-29 12:04:55

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#36 2011-07-29 19:03:45

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#37 2011-07-30 06:55:22

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#38 2011-07-30 13:09:17

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#39 2011-07-30 13:18:28

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#40 2011-07-30 16:09:00

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#41 2011-07-30 16:48:19

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#42 2011-07-30 17:28:38

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#43 2011-07-31 16:43:42

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#44 2011-07-31 17:35:22

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#45 2011-08-01 10:22:34

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#46 2011-08-01 11:44:30

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#47 2011-08-05 22:57:43

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#48 2011-08-06 06:29:47

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#49 2011-09-01 10:08:50

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

#50 2011-09-01 10:16:26

Re: KDE 4.7 with OpenGL ES 2.0 KWin backend

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