From Photoshop to Gimp

KENTOSI · 2005-07-05 07:04:25

Having worked as a web-designer for 6 months using Photoshop, I spend last weekend exploring the possibilities of GIMP convincing myself that I could master it with minimal effort.

How wrong I was...

The GIMP interface, although nice, was just WAY too different for me. Now, I'm not a serious graphics designer (anymore), and all i really want to do is make some cool buttons/wallpapers/etc to spruce up my AL and show it off in the 'monthly screenshots' post. 8) But the things that got me stuck were:
1. The hotkeys (which I use a LOT!!) are so completely different.
2. The names given to tools/effects/commands are all different.
3. The windowing interface. What's the justification behind having so many windows scattered across the desktop? I hate it. With Photoshop it's one main window. In Gimp, you mis-click and you're either in another application or you've clicked on the desktop. Either way, you lose the hotkeys. Very annoying!

Thankfully, just today, I came across a bit of help to tackle two of the problems above!

To tackle the issue of hotkeys, I'd recommend this site below. it contains a remapping of all tools as per what they are in photoshop:
http://epierce.freeshell.org/gimp/gimp_ps.php

For the tools/effects/commands you can use GimpShop, which is VERY nice indeed! Check it out at:
http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241
(somewhere down the bottom of the page someone's even provided an ArchLinux pagakage!)

Now, the only issue remaining is the scattered-window-interface. Argh!! Putting that aside, I'm LOVING my Gimp now! I wish I had the patience to learn Gimp the Giimp way, but as I said, I don't want to dwelve too deep into it. I just want to get my ideas on screen without forking out $1000 AUD :shock:

Anyways, enough rambling. My icons look ugly. It's design time!! :twisted:

CyberTron · 2005-07-05 08:15:02

awsome !

I can add that I feel like you, I hate gimp's "twenty-million-windows" way...
But I have read somewhere that they are going to make it into "one" window, can anyone more into gimp than me correct me if I am wrong??

iphitus · 2005-07-05 08:49:04

Everyone bags the interface.

Everyone forgets you can tab the windows together, so you have your toolbox window, and your image window.

Everyone forgets, that if you run a tiled window manager like me, you know, a window manager that actually does what it's meant to, it makes the Gimp, awesome to use.

It's not like photoshop is innocent too
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e … _2_OSX.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e … eraraw.jpg
I see multiple windows there.....

No... there's no problems with the interface design in the gimp. IMHO, it's superior. MDI based applications are the spawn of the devil.

iphitus

jsn · 2005-07-05 09:19:23

In the beginning of gimp usage, i had hard time understanding why the windows were scattered like that. After some more time in linux (now around one year in linux) i started using multiple desktops more and more. Nowdays i usually run gimp on own desktop so there is no other programs on that particular desktop (sometimes small exceptions), atleast it works for me nicely. Actually photoshop way looked quite weird after having more use to gimp method, its also nice to have windows in taskbar/panel and access them from there if they are minimized/non visible.

Ideal solution ofcourse would be option to use either gimps own style or more photoshopped style. So everyone could use their preference, if that option would come now, i would stick on gimps own.

bruno · 2005-07-05 09:22:47

Ever heard about Gimpshop?

It's a Gimp mod to resemble the Photoshop layout:
http://linux.suramya.com/tutorials/Install_GIMPShop/

EDIT: Original anouncement, look at the screenshots. This is a fork, not official Gimp.

http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241

Btuno

scarecrow · 2005-07-05 10:00:34

bruno wrote:

Ever heard about Gimpshop?

Sure enough... from here:
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php? … highlight=

I still prefer Gimp vanilla though.

tmadhavan · 2005-07-05 10:11:19

Iphy, what is a tiling window manager all about?

iphitus · 2005-07-05 14:29:54

take a look at ion3, wmi or ratpoison.

and take a bit of a read here for a relatively good summary.
http://modeemi.cs.tut.fi/~tuomov/ion/intro.html

kasparhouser · 2005-07-05 19:46:18

iphitus wrote:

No... there's no problems with the interface design in the gimp. IMHO, it's superior. MDI based applications are the spawn of the devil.

sure, there are ways around it but thats not a real solution.

If you want a more photoshop like program take a look at pixel32.

iphitus · 2005-07-05 22:01:04

kasparhouser wrote:

iphitus wrote:
No... there's no problems with the interface design in the gimp. IMHO, it's superior. MDI based applications are the spawn of the devil.
sure, there are ways around it but thats not a real solution.
If you want a more photoshop like program take a look at pixel32.

I'm not giving ways around it, im stating that there is no problem to be solved in the first place.

People want a broken MDI based interface for it. It aint going to happen.

iphitus

phrakture · 2005-07-05 22:05:33

iphitus - can you explain how you work with gimp under ion? I've taken to (seriously) running it in an xnest session under twm - because under ratpoison, you can't move windows around... they're just smack-dab fullscreened.
I wish there was an easy way to contain them... like make an app called "gimp-container" which will reparent all the gimp windows (or at least declare them transient, sheesh)

Dusty · 2005-07-05 22:14:27

IIRC, the guy who figured out a useful way to run gimp under ion2 was... er, name withheld due to modesty.

But I can't find the thread where I suggested it. :-/ I recall certain people saying they were going to switch to ion after seeing my screenshot. All my glory... gone.

Dusty

KENTOSI · 2005-07-06 01:07:40

iphitus wrote:

Everyone bags the interface.
It's not like photoshop is innocent too
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e … _2_OSX.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e … eraraw.jpg
I see multiple windows there.....
No... there's no problems with the interface design in the gimp. IMHO, it's superior. MDI based applications are the spawn of the devil.
iphitus

Hi iphitus,

I'm not sure about the apple screenshot you posted - but with the windows MDI interafce, say you clicked in the grey-background of the main window by mistake. now, say you wanted to use the 'rectangular-select tool'. You press 'M' in photoshop, and you're free to use that tool in any image window inside the MDI interface.

Now in Gimp there is no MDI interface. So say you click on the background by mistake. Then you hit 'R' (which is the Gimp version of the 'M' key from above). Nothing happens. Why? Coz you've lost focus to the application by clicking on the desktop (or some other window).

What I'm getting at is application focus. Why should I have to alt-tab to get to windows that are part of the same application? It doesn't make sense to me ...

iphitus · 2005-07-06 02:33:31

KENTOSI wrote:

iphitus wrote:
Everyone bags the interface.
It's not like photoshop is innocent too
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e … _2_OSX.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e … eraraw.jpg
I see multiple windows there.....
No... there's no problems with the interface design in the gimp. IMHO, it's superior. MDI based applications are the spawn of the devil.
iphitus
Hi iphitus,
I'm not sure about the apple screenshot you posted - but with the windows MDI interafce, say you clicked in the grey-background of the main window by mistake. now, say you wanted to use the 'rectangular-select tool'. You press 'M' in photoshop, and you're free to use that tool in any image window inside the MDI interface.

And you're free to use the tool in any of the gimp's images.

Now in Gimp there is no MDI interface. So say you click on the background by mistake. Then you hit 'R' (which is the Gimp version of the 'M' key from above). Nothing happens. Why? Coz you've lost focus to the application by clicking on the desktop (or some other window).

Well that's partially because you use a broken window manager, but really, it's not that bad, i know clicking the desktop by accident has never been an issue for me.

Solution: Go into GIMP, Preferences, Window Management, Set Hint for toolbox: 'Keep Above'.
Then maximize the image you work with and your gimp toolbox will be on top the whole time.

If you find the toolbox too big and space consuming, go to Preferences, theme, and select small.

What I'm getting at is application focus. Why should I have to alt-tab to get to windows that are part of the same application? It doesn't make sense to me ...

Inside Photoshop, you still have to change windows somehow. Probably using it's own keyboard combination, or the mouse. I'm betting you just use the mouse.

Whereas in the GIMP, you may use a standard keyboard combination, standard across the whole desktop. Not custom for each application, one to learn rather than ten. Or you may use the mouse, which is what I suspect you already use in Photoshop.

MDI vs SDI has been debated to death, take a google, you'll realise how flawed that MDI is. Which is why Microsoft is moving away from it, and Apple never used it in the first place.

Me, I'm a GIMP user who then went to Photoshop for school. And I find photoshop ridiculously frustrating to deal with. the windows within photoshop arent managed by the window manager, hence alt-tab and other standard forms of navigation fail to work.

I'm also used to the focus following my mouse around within linux, I dont have to click a window to use it, and it becomes annoying when that window I mouse over doesnt pop up as I would expect it to. While focus following the mouse is afaik non existant in windows, if they implemented MDI in Gimp, that would break the Gimp for me.

And if it's that bad.... Gimp is open source, write your own GTK MDI widget, enjoy the flames you'll receive, and you can have your own MDI Gimp.

iphitus

Dusty · 2005-07-06 02:37:00

iphitus wrote:

MDI vs SDI has been debated to death, take a google, you'll realise how flawed that MDI is. Which is why Microsoft is moving away from it, and Apple never used it in the first place.

I totally agree with you that MDI sucks, but how could you say that Microsoft is moving away from something because its flawed? I mean, they like flawed! Flawed sells operating systems, not to mention tech support. ;-)

Dusty

iphitus · 2005-07-06 02:41:56

Dusty wrote:

iphitus wrote:
MDI vs SDI has been debated to death, take a google, you'll realise how flawed that MDI is. Which is why Microsoft is moving away from it, and Apple never used it in the first place.
I totally agree with you that MDI sucks, but how could you say that Microsoft is moving away from something because its flawed? I mean, they like flawed! Flawed sells operating systems, not to mention tech support. ;-)
Dusty

Dont ask me, but the latest version of Office is SDI. And microsoft's own documents for MFC discourage strongly the use of their MDI widget.

cactus · 2005-07-06 03:36:50

sdi is the one with the floating detached windows, right?
like office on the mac?

and mdi is the desktop within a desktop? like..um..openoffice?

heh. can you tell I don't do much gui programming? :oops:

iphitus · 2005-07-06 03:52:33

cactus wrote:

sdi is the one with the floating detached windows, right?
like office on the mac?
and mdi is the desktop within a desktop? like..um..openoffice?
heh. can you tell I don't do much gui programming? :oops:

MDI is where you have multiple windows within the one,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_d … _interface

SDI is where each document get's it's own window.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_document_interface

MDI is frowned on, because it reduces consistency across a desktop's interface, thus making it more difficult for a user to navigate. This is caused by different programs implementing MDI differently, and by the difference between an MDI widget's interface and the standard windowsing system for that desktop.
MDI also creates it's own windowing system, which is reproducing work, that should be done by the window manager and providing a different interface to the rest of the system.

http://www.pixelcentric.net/x-shame/docs.html

iphitus

KENTOSI · 2005-07-06 04:20:56

For every MDI interface I've used:
Alt+Tab = switch between application windows (from photoshop to firefox)
Ctrl+Tab = swtich between sub-windows (from image1 to image2 in photoshop, or from tab1 to tab2 in firefox)
... and this has always been consistent.

And no I don't use mouse-over focus - I find that very annoying especially when you switch desktops and the focus remains on some window in another desktop.

*sigh* I guess I'm just to used to windows (despite the fact that I've been using linux for 2 years now). But you're right in saying that it's argued to death. And if I had the patience to learn GTK then I'd definately change it.

One thing I'm curious about though - to all Gimp users:
In photoshop when you have the image on full-screen mode (F11 in Gimp) you can toggle the vsibility of the controls by pressing [tab]. can you do that in Gimp? I LOVE working in full-screen mode!

iphitus · 2005-07-06 11:54:46

KENTOSI wrote:

One thing I'm curious about though - to all Gimp users:
In photoshop when you have the image on full-screen mode (F11 in Gimp) you can toggle the vsibility of the controls by pressing [tab]. can you do that in Gimp? I LOVE working in full-screen mode!

As a matter of fact.... you can!

Just hit.... TAB! (while focused on an image)

It doesnt work in full screen, although maximise works well enough.

iphitus

Arch Linux

#1 2005-07-05 07:04:25

From Photoshop to Gimp

#2 2005-07-05 08:15:02

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#3 2005-07-05 08:49:04

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#4 2005-07-05 09:19:23

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#5 2005-07-05 09:22:47

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#6 2005-07-05 10:00:34

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#7 2005-07-05 10:11:19

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#8 2005-07-05 14:29:54

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#9 2005-07-05 19:46:18

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#10 2005-07-05 22:01:04

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#11 2005-07-05 22:05:33

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#12 2005-07-05 22:14:27

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#13 2005-07-06 01:07:40

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#14 2005-07-06 02:33:31

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#15 2005-07-06 02:37:00

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#16 2005-07-06 02:41:56

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#17 2005-07-06 03:36:50

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#18 2005-07-06 03:52:33

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#19 2005-07-06 04:20:56

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

#20 2005-07-06 11:54:46

Re: From Photoshop to Gimp

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