X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

SevenThunders · 2011-09-21 01:04:23

I have resigned myself to this behavior. I need to get Nvidia cuda toolkit working and after a major upgrade that effects X-windows I lose X.

Usually my fix is to reinstall nvidia drivers and cuda, sometimes successfully from aur but usually not. Well this time I'm stuck.

The proprietary driver won't work either, it wants kernel sources, but after installing them it still can't find them. Maybe they are there and I just need to supply some command line arguments, but I grow weary of this.

I just can no longer afford to waste hours and hours configuring low level BS to get my work done.

I'm going to step away from my console now and get some needed real work done. Does anyone want to talk me out of this? I'll probably blow away archlinux and replace it with ubuntu or maybe scientific linux if this persists.

I really wish Arch spent a little bit more time making sure that they would support drivers for the major vendors, e.g. AMD and Nvidia. Nvidia's cuda drivers really have problems with some of the latest stuff. Perhaps it's just a bad match and I should another distro. Not sure. Thoughts?

jasonwryan · 2011-09-21 01:25:13

It sounds like you would be better off, ie., happier, with Scientific Linux...

SevenThunders wrote:

I really wish Arch spent a little bit more time making sure that they would support drivers for the major vendors, e.g. AMD and Nvidia.

By "Arch" I guess you mean someone else?

ewaller · 2011-09-21 01:48:00

Your title asserts that you are about to give up.
The body of your text asserts that you are resigned to the behavior.

I am confused

SevenThunders · 2011-09-21 03:02:37

ewaller wrote:

Your title asserts that you are about to give up.
The body of your text asserts that you are resigned to the behavior.
I am confused

LOL. I'm being deliberately ambivalent. I'd really love to stay with Arch, but I'm wondering if it's such a good idea for what I use it for, namely scientific and numerical linear algebra. Running the latest cuda drivers are a must. Actually right now I can't even get any nvidia driver to install after a recent update.

I was hoping someone would talk me out of walking away from this distro. So far no takers.

eldragon · 2011-09-21 03:11:01

i would give up on nvidia .... if you rely on a binary blob for your computer to work, i guess a rolling release distro is not for you

you could always hold Xorg for a while during an upgrade. read some news, find out if there are any problems with your binary blobs... (ive read some comments on the arch mailing list about it).

DO NOT BLIND UPDATES!

Last edited by eldragon (2011-09-21 03:13:55)

xmadc · 2011-09-21 03:24:26

If you want to use arch successfully you should start reading the wiki more, one of the best things of arch is the wiki, so please use it.

if you go here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman You'll notice that the very first thing mentioned on the configuration section is how to block packages, read it, do that for xorg, problem fixed.

Then again, arch is just a tool, if it doesn't work for you, use whatever helps you get your work done.

-- x

SevenThunders · 2011-09-21 03:30:59

Well we still have pacman packages for nvidia, nvidia-all and aur packages for nvidia-cuda and cuda-toolkit. They are just not working for me. Yes I probably should have been more careful, but I've been through this exercise probably 3 times or so. Usually after a few tweaks I can at least get the drivers to install. So my next question might be, just what is Arch linux optimized for? Who should be using it? Someone who needs bleeding edge software perhaps? Support for exotic new hardware? Is it the fact that it can be maximally customized?

ewaller · 2011-09-21 03:43:51

SevenThunders wrote:

I was hoping someone would talk me out of walking away from this distro. So far no takers.

Okay, I'll try. Arch is my favorite distribution. I can install it faster than I can upgrade most other distros. In my life, I've used RT-11, Wilbur, RSTS-E, CP/M, HPUX, Apple DOS (3.2, 3.3, proDos), MSDOS (3,4, and 6), Windows 3, for WorkGroup, 95, 98, NT, 4, XP, 7, Mac (system 4, 6, OS/X), Solaris and Linux (Fedora, Slackware, Puppy, Ubuntu, CentOS, Suse, Gentoo, DSL and Arch)

I don't use Nvidia, so I cannot share your pain. I can say that all OSes require some level of maintenance. Some require it continuously. Others less so. Some require little for long periods, followed by re-installs. It seems the more control you have, the more effort is required. Some are walled gardens, some are driven by marketing departments, some by ideology.

For me, Arch is the compromise I need. A great deal of control. Never a need to start over from scratch. It does what I want, and I don't have to compile it from scratch. Were it not for Arch, I'd still be with Gentoo (the penultimate disto, IMHO)

Regardless, it is your system. YMMV.

SevenThunders · 2011-09-21 03:53:55

ewaller wrote:

I don't use Nvidia, so I cannot share your pain. I can say that all OSes require some level of maintenance. Some require it continuously. Others less so. Some require little for long periods, followed by re-installs. It seems the more control you have, the more effort is required. Some are walled gardens, some are driven by marketing departments, some by ideology.
For me, Arch is the compromise I need. A great deal of control. Never a need to start over from scratch. It does what I want, and I don't have to compile it from scratch. Were it not for Arch, I'd still be with Gentoo (the penultimate disto, IMHO)
Regardless, it is your system. YMMV.

Yes I liked the control Arch gave me and I liked the fact they were the first to get the latest stuff. I fully understand that this has consequences. Nvidia has to maintain support for their windows and probably MAC drivers first. So they are always a distro rev or two behind in their linux support. I'm surprised there isn't more whining about Nvidia support. Maybe my configuration is a little odd, and it's just working for most, but my gpu, motherboard and cpu are fairly standard, though possibly dated by a year or two.

Well I'm going to give it one more try before punting. I'll do some reading on how to install nvidia drivers first and see if I can make any progress.

Thanks for the input.

tomk · 2011-09-21 06:09:28

SevenThunders wrote:

I really wish Arch spent a little bit more time making sure that they would support drivers for the major vendors, e.g. AMD and Nvidia.

Just consider what you're asking for here. Arch is a GNU/Linux distribution, and the Arch approach requires the latest stable software. You're asking the Arch devs to forgo that principle to accommodate closed source drivers.

It is your choice to use the nvidia blob, so it is your responsibility to deal with the consequences.

And yes, I know this is more like talking you in to leaving, instead of talking you out of it - but that's OK, choice exists for a reason. There is nothing wrong with changing distro.

Padfoot · 2011-09-21 06:54:56

Sorry you are having so many issues. But to give up on Arch based on a package from AUR is not really the way to go. Remember, AUR packages are not official Arch packages. Right from the start (in the wiki) we are advised to use AUR at our own risk as the packages can cause breakage.

Your best bet in getting a resolution would be to contact the AUR package maintainer. They may not be aware of the particular issue you have, hence why it breaks every time you upgrade.

Sorry it's not a solution as such, but just wanted to clarify the fact re AUR packages not being official, hence not to cloud your view of Arch because of it.

Cheers.

ngoonee · 2011-09-21 07:17:06

SevenThunders wrote:

I'm surprised there isn't more whining about Nvidia support.

Well, some other nvidia users knew (from the ML or related) that the upcoming xorg upgrade was not yet supported by the nvidia drivers, so they simply placed it on ignore. The same thing happened to catalyst users a year or so ago.

Arch is not fire-and-forget, control comes at the cost of responsibility. Its perfectly acceptable to want someone else to take care of these details so you don't have to, but then you probably don't want to be using Arch in that case.

dr_te_z · 2011-09-21 10:30:32

SevenThunders wrote:

I'm surprised there isn't more whining about Nvidia

That's too much of a challange! Dutch love to whine

[whine]
I've got arch running on an old desktop and I switched to nouevau and my troubles were over. On my (acually my bosses) thinkpad T61 I run arch with nvidia drivers/blobs. So at the moment X does not run as it should be. The bypass

 startx -- -ignoreABI

works for me here. With this config I can only have 1 simnultanious graphical session but, HEY, it's a bypass and not a solution.
[/whine]

.

Mr.Elendig · 2011-09-21 11:06:11

SevenThunders wrote:

I have resigned myself to this behavior. I need to get Nvidia cuda toolkit working and after a major upgrade that effects X-windows I lose X.

Funnily I use nvidia and I never have this problem, even though I use [testing]

There is a couple of simple reasons for this:
1. I use the drivers in the repos instead of using the .run from nvidia
2. I read the news and ml before updating.

Do that and you shouldn't have any problems, specially if you are not using [testing]

Arch Linux

#1 2011-09-21 01:04:23

X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#2 2011-09-21 01:25:13

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#3 2011-09-21 01:48:00

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#4 2011-09-21 03:02:37

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#5 2011-09-21 03:11:01

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#6 2011-09-21 03:24:26

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#7 2011-09-21 03:30:59

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#8 2011-09-21 03:43:51

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#9 2011-09-21 03:53:55

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#10 2011-09-21 06:09:28

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#11 2011-09-21 06:54:56

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#12 2011-09-21 07:17:06

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#13 2011-09-21 10:30:32

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

#14 2011-09-21 11:06:11

Re: X-Windows fails after Every Major Upgrade: About to give up Archlinux

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